Jon Snow Must Die *May Contain Spoilers*

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JDP

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Whether he is a Head of the Dragon, the Prince Who Was Promised, a legitimate Targ or 'just' the ******* Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, I am convinced of one thing:

Jon Snow must die.

Why?!? I hear you cry. Because he's a bit annoying? Perhaps. Because if he wipes away one more unshed tear pondering the phrase 'you know nothing, Jon Snow', we're all going to die a little inside? Quite possibly. Because he's the most kick-ass member of the Stark brood left? (Well, apart from Arya. And Bran if he grows up a bit and starts skinchanging with a dragon. And, to be honest, I've got a feeling Sansa's about to come into her own and go proper machiavellian on Littlefinger's ass). Okay, maybe not.

But like him or loathe him, love him or hate him, of Jon's ultimate fate I am utterly convinced. For one reason and one reason only:

Ghost needs a reason to howl.

Yes, what could be more poignant than the albino direwolf breaking his life-long silence to mourn the death of his beloved master? Nothing. It's just too good to pass up, surely?!?

What do people think - Must Jon Snow die? Will this long-suffering character get a happily ever after or the kiss of ice-cold steel? Whatever his fate, I just can't see him riding off into the sunset. Jon is tied inevitably to the North, and the North is cold, hard, cruel and full of loss.

And, after all, Winter is coming... but once Winter passes, so must Snow.
 
I like the idea of Ghost's first howl being in response to the death of Jon. Yes, Snow might die. Then again, he might not. I've come to believe in not suspecting anything in this series because more often than not I'm wrong and George twists the tale and does something else.
 
But would it be seen to be GRRM's biggest howler if Jon was to die?


:rolleyes::eek::)






* Goes back to barking up the wrong tree. *
 
JDP, you're an optimist, you are. But I think that's all wishful thinking. Jon might be crippled... he might lose Ghost... he may watch his own son die (that's another story)... but I think he's stuck on that wall like Aemon.
 
I believe that Jon will not die until his task is done. Maybe a bit like Aemon, since we talked about him anyway.
 
@Ghost of Harrenhal - True enough, GOH. I reckon the reason GRRM is taking so long to finish Dance is because every time he gets close to finishing, some eedjit on an ASOIAF forum goes and guesses his next big plot twist and he has to go back to the drawing board :) Still, fun to speculate, no?

@Ursa Major - Enough with all these wolf puns, they're driving me loopy(ne). Weak, I know, but the best I can come up with off the top of my head. Don't get it? I'm not surprised. It really is weak.

@Boaz - Indeed, perhaps the most bittersweet ending might be Jon seeing out his days duty-bound to the Wall whilst the South forgets about the War for the Dawn II and the brave men who fought it. Except the few who go round once a year selling blue roses and bothering passers-by with stories starting "During the War..."

@Syphon of Oor-Tael - But will Jon give his life in the completion of this task, whatever that might be? I say yes.

@Hilarious Joke - HJ, I'm blushing. And putting together a hit squad before my secret goes any further... perhaps I should change my screen name to JDDP; it has a certain quality to it :)


I think that maybe Boaz's vision of an old, decrepit Jon still walking the wall, holding back the night, is the most dramatic. But I'm convinced he's going to die saving the world (Jon, not Boaz. Well, maybe Boaz?). Jon's got the martyr thing down to a tee, so I reckon GRRM's gonna give him his wish. And then Ghost can howl. And then I can sit back in my armchair and think "Why the hell did I wait ten years for those last three books? I knew what was going to happen the whole damn time."
 
The series will end with the return of summer and the wall melting. Which is going to make it a bit hard for Jon to walk along. He may need a little boat.
 
Me? Die to save the world? I'm not that magnanimous. I'm sure I'll choke on a pizza crust.

If Jon ever learns of his true origins, and if he ever hooks up with Dany, Sansa, or Arya, then I think he'll have a daughter named Rhaeyanna.

JDP, too true that neither Tolkien nor Homer had millions of fans on the internet continually guessing, post after post, year after year, as to the future of the story. Martin might indeed be sitting in front of his computer at this very moment...

"Damn that Boaz. Damn him! How did he guess Tyrion was Aerys' son? Okay, I'll change the story so that Cersei and Jaime are Aerys' bastards... wait, Boaz predicted that, too?!?! Arrrggghhh!!! Damn him. I'll never finish this story as long as Boaz is alive... Okay, if went to Denver and slipped the Tears of Lys into his pizza, he'd be gone just like Joffrey! Ha, ha, ha! That's what I'll do..."

Well, then I just might die to save the world... Westeros that is.
 
Rhaegritte? Was it ever revealed how long he was away from Ygritte after they last had sex? Maybe he seeded a child in her before they broke up and she was killed. But that's just something else. I think that if he does hook up with Sansa or Arya, it's out of ignorance of their true nature. Because my money is on them forgetting who they really are. Arya, most of all. Sansa, maybe. But Arya, definately.
 
Because my money is on them forgetting who they really are. Arya, most of all. Sansa, maybe. But Arya, definately.
Click to expand...

Why do you think that? To me Arya is the culmination of a number of characters (Arya Underfoot, Arry, Weasel, Nan, Arya the assassin), and it would be a shame for her to lose this history.
 
Has Varys lost his memories of his youth? What about Baelish? Or Maester Aemon? Tyrion? Oberyn? Cersei? Tywin? Mance? Asha? Arianne? Genna? All of them are (or were) still motivated as adults by events that happened in their youths.

If you've read Shogun (I'm just mentioning it, I'm not promoting it, so keep your shoes on) and remember the character Mariko, then you'll have an idea of what Sansa may become. Mariko was the last surviving member of her family. Her father was murdered as a traitor. In fact, Mariko's entire family was eradicated. She was left alive because she was only fourteen and married to an ally of the ruling junta. Twenty years passed and she learned the Great Game. She put on a mask of meekness and religion. Then she stepped out of the shadows to bring utter ruin upon those who supported the annihilation of her family.

Baelish may think he's retrained Sansa, but she'll not forget. I'm not saying she'll defeat Littlefinger (I think he may always have her number), but I think she could become, at Littlefinger's instigation, the utter destruction of Houses Lannister, Tyrell, Frey, and Greyjoy.
 
I seem to remember Littlefinger saying something like 'Find out what your enemy loves and use it against them' (I'm paraphrasing, and have possibly just made that up?). I can see Sansa doing just this with his obsession with Cat.

I can't see Arya ever forgetting who she is or where she comes from. She is a Stark through and through and will have her vengeance.
 
I am putting my money on Arya forgetting who she is because she keeps taking on these new personas. She puts them on like I put on socks.
 
As has been discussed in another thread, Arya kills Dareon "for abandoning the Night's Watch" (probably ;)).

This doesn't sound like an action of someone "forgetting who she is". She's a Stark and in this case acts like one.


(And I agree with HJ: Needle is there to remind her in case her training makes her forget.)
 
We've been discussing Jon in Done to death... again and how he'll balance his oaths and his heritage in the future. Well, it seems that Arya will have to do the same when she is sworn in as a Faceless Man, err, Woman, uh, Child... The bittersweet ending proclaimed by GRRM might not be the story, but how these characters are forced to choose between oaths, family, and justice.

Jaime was forced into this fifteen years before the story opened. He chose to break his vows... everyone thought he did it for family, but we know he did it for justice. Of course, he's been despised ever since.

Will Arya be sent to assassinate Sansa or Jon? What will she choose to honor, her vows or her family? Will she kill her family for the Faceless Men, will she turn on House of Black and White, or will she kill herself?

Aemon told Jon that the gods saw fit to test his vows in his youth, in middle age, and in his failing years... and each test was as hard as the last. Jon was tested in his youth many times... how many more times will he be tested?

Arya's come through, thus far, with her psyche fairly intact. (Yeah, I know she's an eleven year old mass murderer, but considering everything she's fairly normal.) Her prayers and Needle have been her touchstones. Now the kindly old man will work hard to get rid of these... she'll be re-educated to some extent, but I don't think she's going to forget who she was.

Bran has constant reminders of who he was... his legs, Hodor, Meera, and the very annoying and cryptic Jojen.

Rickon was about five when he left the ruins of Winterfell. He may well never remember his parents or siblings. Osha is his only tie to his past... and she's a wildling.

Sansa is the only one of the bunch for whom I'd have concern about her mental state. She's been abused, accused, refused, and used repeatedly. And she's still fairly stable... but it seems that her aunt had problems dealing with reality and her mother went over the edge at the very end. Will Sansa lose herself in Alaynne? I don't think so, I think Littlefinger won't let her become Alaynne because he will need her to be Sansa Stark or even Sansa Lannister in the future. He's teaching her to get into the game, not run from it.
 
I dread having Jon built up and then sacrificed. Could be though. He could pull a Halfhand. Honour could be his downfall, like Ned.

Arya is pretty tenacious. Now she would definitely break the rules.

Littlefinger as a teacher. Hope he teaches Sansa to manage money along with the rest.
 
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