Jon Snow Must Die *May Contain Spoilers*

Sorry HJ!

Littlefinger is a wizard of finance. He is so valuable to the nobs, that he rose in power, rewards and wealth. It has enabled him to compete in the game of thrones (that and elegant and ruthless strategies) without being a warrior. He went from a tiny land holder to a significant player.

I happen to believe one of the most important things for a person to learn is how to manage their money. It goes from normal budgeting within ones means, to actual planning for the future and paying attention, then there are lucrative careers, certainly, it you think of these times. Honourable? Maybe not sometimes. The whole Lysa thing was pretty bad, but I don't think a normal person needs to go that far! (or passing along questionable derivatives in our times)

Wealth creation and management knowledge would serve Sansa very well, since she is not likely to be a general (but who knows). I'm sure she could do more than dress well. And since I can't resist, Elizabeth the Ist, kept an eye on her accounts (making corrections as a very young woman). She chose a very sharp guy with finances help her keep her throne. One of her first acts was to "un" debase the currencey. And she hated wars and tried to avoid them, one reason being that she couldn't stand the waste.

Anyway, Littlefinger could teach Sansa a lot.
 
Like what it's like to have sex with your adopted father? Come on, everybody knows that's what Littlefinger is angling for.
 
Thanks, Eulalia, and I agree with you. Sansa can still learn a lot from Littlefinger. I think his obsession with her can be used to her advantage. In a way, Sansa might be the only one able to outplay Littlefinger because of this.

Littlefinger could be wrapped around her little finger, so to speak.
 
I think Littlefinger would like to finally live out a boyhood fantasy, but I think he's got his eyes on a bigger prize. I don't see him endangering his plans with his lusts.

The only way Sansa gets the upper hand is if she successfully pretends to fall for Petyr. She's gotta convince him that their destiny is to be together. She'll have to use all of her feminine charms and wrap him around her finger... in bed... and that's not something I see Sansa even being close to undertaking.
 
Oh please. All she needs to do is ensnare Petyr's bodyguard. Or just any old household knight really. A sword through the chest is hard to manipulate your way out of.
 
Boaz said:
I think Littlefinger would like to finally live out a boyhood fantasy, but I think he's got his eyes on a bigger prize. I don't see him endangering his plans with his lusts.

The only way Sansa gets the upper hand is if she successfully pretends to fall for Petyr. She's gotta convince him that their destiny is to be together. She'll have to use all of her feminine charms and wrap him around her finger... in bed... and that's not something I see Sansa even being close to undertaking.
Click to expand...

Maybe not Sansa. But what about her other persona, Alayne? She is a ******* and they are supposed to be treacherous and lustful anyway. Seed of lies and disloyalty, and all that buzz?
 
You mean Petyr would choose T&A over a financial apprentice?!! He could make a Queen of Sansa, if he were so inclined.

Saviours for Sansa-- Harry the Heir. Weird Lord Robert. Arya. Brienne. Uncat. Sandor. Jaime. Sansa herself. The metal through the chest technique sounds attractive.
 
Hi guys, first time poster.

Just finished listening to the 4 audiobooks. And I am reading up on the forum posts to clear up my confusing of the plot.

I had to register to reply to this thread.

I think people mostly agree Jon is the vital personality to defeat the Others/protect the realm in the coming winter.

However, once the Others are defeated... If he was to be killed off by GJJM -- and I won't let it pass GJJM to do just that -- you guys have to prepare for the worst case scenerio. That means he will be killed by not just anybody, he could be killed by Arya. Doesn't the first book fordshadow the deep boning kinship between Jon and Arya? This is Greek tragedy we are talking about. And it would make a more shocking moment than the Red Wedding.

Arya will have her day of awakening, it could be the day she meet Nymeria.

If only one of the the Stark children will survive the satory ark, I think its no brainer that its going to be Rickon. That's his entire purpose in the story. If there were two, I am guessing the other one would be Sansa, who I loathe.
 
Welcome, whatever7.

To me, Jon is annoying. I don't like him. But, I am personally not of the opinion that any amount of brainwashing will convince Arya to kill Jon. She'll kiss him before she kills him.

Reread Jon's chapters after he meets Ygritte. I find it disturbing that oftentimes when he thinks of Ygritte in a romantic way, he immediately compares her to Arya. Jon's got issues. I see him pairing up with Arya or Sansa (he likes reheads) as easily as I see him with Dany. I don't think Jon has any sisters, but he does have two female cousins and an aunt.

Jon may die, but I think it'll be either at the hands of The Other or after he's defeated The Other. Then Dany, Arya, Roose, Alliser, Melisandre or Val will be free to kill him.
 
Boaz said:
I find it disturbing that oftentimes when he thinks of Ygritte in a romantic way, he immediately compares her to Arya. Jon's got issues. I see him pairing up with Arya or Sansa (he likes reheads) as easily as I see him with Dany. I don't think Jon has any sisters, but he does have two female cousins and an aunt.
Click to expand...

So subconciously, you're hinting that John is killed by one cousin while he's in the process of marrying the other**. ;):)

An extra-red wedding indeed.



Oh, and welcome, whatever7.







** - Arya would be doing the killing: John would be breaking his NW vows to marry Sansa (or anyone else, for that matter) and we know how Arya reacts to that. ;)
 
Extra-red wedding?!?! You want fries with that?

Arya killing Jon for spurning her for Sansa? That's the most plausible reason that I've heard for Arya killing Jon.

But Jon will have to leave the Night's Watch or have the Night's Watch disbanded for any of this to happen...
 
Boaz said:
Extra-red wedding?!?! You want fries with that?

Arya killing Jon for spurning her for Sansa? That's the most plausible reason that I've heard for Arya killing Jon.

But Jon will have to leave the Night's Watch or have the Night's Watch disbanded for any of this to happen...
Click to expand...

Well the faceless assassins might get hired by any of the free city prince (that guy whose names start with X, for example) to kill Jon. And they send in Arya Matilda style.

I am saying Arya will get sychologically recondition a la Manchurian Candidate and get brain washed for a long time until the end of the series.

TBH her character/chapters got dull once she got to the Temple of Black and White. And even if she manage to escape the Temple with her own will intact she is kind of boring now. Because the training she receive in the temple make her too powerful. And I can't relay to her. God forbid she becomes Brienne II and it will be the waste of printed paper on the future books.
 
Well, the use of Faceless Men is restricted to only the most rich and powerful. Robert's Small Council balked at the cost of assassinating the last Targaryen. So who would spend a fortune to murder Jon Snow? Anyone who has been to Castle Black knows how exposed the Lord Commander is. It would be easy for a regular assassin to murder Jon for a lot less money.

Now if the final test to become a Faceless Man is to kill the person you love most, then Arya would be sent to kill Jon. This was the plot device in Azumi... I wish I could get those two hours back.
 
If the organization is introduced in the book, it's going to be used for at least once. That's the difference between a book and real life.

I downloaded that movie...never saw it.
 
Consider yourself lucky. Take your two hours and spend it with friends or nap or shave your head or fall down a flight of stairs or get arrested... just make it worth your while.
 
I liked Azumi, it was way better then any moronic Jackie Chan movie.
Some scenes where a bit over the top, but you knew that from the beginning.

The best Japanese action movie i'v ever seen is Worst though. Based on a manga.
 
Kiwi, Jackie's last good movie was fifteen years ago... It's too bad that you've grown up in the era of Jackie's bad movies. It's kind of like watching Mike Tyson or Bjorn Borg during their comebacks... at one time they dominated, but in the end they were feeble.

Anyway, the title of the this thread is Jon Snow Must Die...

I don't know if he must die, but I think he must have another romance in his life. Remember Benjen's words about Jon not knowing what he was missing? Think about Jon's experience with Ygritte. He's young. He's the protagonist. He's probably the prophetic hero of the story. Ergo, he must have a romance before all is said and done. Only Frodo and Gandalf never had any romance (stop all the Sam comments right now... especially you, Egg... you ruined The Karate Kid for me, don't ruin The Lord of the Rings 'cause I'll never forgive you)... all other heroes in epic fantasy have romances. So why not Jon?
 
Because he already had a romance. Also, an anti-romance would be much more gripping and compelling. It would be much more GRRM's style, too.
 
tsw, what do you mean exactly by "anti-romance"? Do you mean a romance that dishonors the memory of Ygritte? Do you mean a one night stand?

I recall Jon shouting at Benjen, "I will never father a *******!" Will this remain true or will it prove to be something that Jon did not understand as a boy? Will he father a *******?
 
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