Dan Brown: The Lost Symbol. 6.5 million copies printed.

[Gary Compton]

Obviously, the authors of HBHG would have done better in the first place to present their story as fiction and given it a sexy protagonist.

Tom Hanks sexy...uuugggg!!

But I am a hairy arsed geordie man whose tatoos slide of me arms when I'm sweating down the pit.

The french bird -now she was sexy!!

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Tom Hanks sexy...uuugggg!!

I'm talking about the book, Gary, not the movie. Brown went to great lengths to convince readers that his protagonist was terrifically attractive, without actually coming out and saying so.

 

[Gary Compton]

I'm talking about the book, Gary, not the movie. Brown went to great lengths to convince readers that his protagonist was terrifically attractive, without actually coming out and saying so.

Never read it. What's it about?

 

[Ursa major]

The protagonist, Robert Langdon, is supposed to look like Harrison Ford, presumably as he was at Langdon's age (approaching forty, I think).

 

[thesoothsayer]

Notoriety works even better than quality when it comes to book sales.

Well, not sure if it's notoriety but the publicity that it got certainly made my friends who've never touched a book since they graduated go out and buy it. Not surprisingly, they enjoyed the book (I guess any book will do after years of staring at the telly) and went out and bought all his other titles.

 

[neilwilliamson]

Well, not sure if it's notoriety but the publicity that it got certainly made my friends who've never touched a book since they graduated go out and buy it. Not surprisingly, they enjoyed the book (I guess any book will do after years of staring at the telly) and went out and bought all his other titles.

I think this is an important point. Someone implied upthread that the people that buy Brown's books must be morons (presumably because they didn't understand the limitations in his prose). It's probably fairer to say that there two types of reader: the first loves books, appreciates prose, etc; the second just likes to be entertained. That second group of readers, many of whom don't read many books, don't really care about good prose, in fact they'd rather the prose was as simple and transparent as possible. All they car about is a good story, well told. And that's what people thought they got with The DaVinci Code, etc. A fast moving plot, with an intriguing idea (because virtually no-one had heard of Holy Blood, Holy Grail - and even that was the result of a hoax), that rattled on right to the end.

I didn't like The DaVinci Code. After 30 pages I literally threw it across the room because it was so poorly written. But then, because I am a confirmed narrative junkie, I picked it back up and read to the end. The plot is mechanistic, obvious and as predicated on cliff-hangers as an old saturday morning serial, but dammit, you always need to know what happens next. Say what you like about Brown, but he knows how to boil a pot.

As someone else said in the thread. Good prose is not the only component of good writing. But it doesn't hurt to improve it as much as you can anyway.

 

[Nesacat]

I liked Angels & Demons and I bought Da Vinci Code because I had liked the previous book, which also, I think, had a cunning cover. I bought both at a remainder store where they had stacks and stacks of copies. I suspect The Lost Symbol will find its way there too. Admittedly I liked Da Vinci Code less and wonder what it would have been like in the hands of a better storyteller. I will probably also read The Lost Symbol.

 

[Peter Graham]

All it is I cant understand how people say you'll be lucky to get through the slushpile etc etc... This guy has and he's sold millions. I dont get it at all. Brown, Martina Cole, Ian rankin and loads of other authors are supposedly bad writers. I'm in sales and success is lots of them and failure is none.

Well said, Gary. I think that there is an element of people being somewhat misled about the whole submissions process. The received wisdom is always along the lines of "you have to be a wuuunderrful writer to get published and someone has to abserlootly luuuurv your work because the competition is sooooo tough and, of course, only the trewely gifted will succeed". Quite frankly, that just isn't true. Judging by what is on sale in my local bookshops, it seems that you might well have a better chance of getting published if:-

1. You get lucky and just happen to hit the zeitgeist, irrespective of the quality of your stuff.

2. You happen to be related to someone in publishing.

3. You happen to be a model or a footballer.

Basically, luck and circumstance seem to play as big a role as talent and hard work, although I do agree that there is at least a basic standard of literacy that all published writers (but not all aspiring writers, alas) have to be able to achieve. Now, is that a bad thing? Probably not - it happens in every other area of life.

But in some ways, writers are their own worst enemies when it comes to believing this hype. I think that there is a myth about anything creative - that somehow the purity of the creative process transcends the mucky realities of profit margins, balance sheets and Her Majesties Revenue and Customs. The industry is there to make money and, like so many industries, there are layer of middle men all taking a cut.

I'd rather be remembered by my family for selling millions of crap books that raked in trillions for my childrens children rather than be known as a brilliant writer that wrote the greatest story ever told but only sold 1.

And this is the rub. I completely agree with you. To me, working is a means to an end, not an end in itself. Writing is work for professional writers. If they maintain their love of doing it long term, they are lucky, but I simply do not accept that someone with a "need" to write is somehow producing purer, or better quality work, than someone who writes to pay the bills.

But not everyone feels the same way. For some, writing is a passion and a love and is worth doing for its own sake, as a hobby, interest or an outlet for creative energy. Why should people who feel this way compromise their principles? Good luck to them, I say.

I suppose what it all comes down to is why you are writing. If you want to become a professional writer, approach the job professionally. Learn how to write, learn what to write (it has to come from the heart, after all) learn how the market works and try and pitch a book that will capture the moment. Treat it as a job and try to understand the whole process - contracts, deals, deadlines et al.

But if you write because you enjoy writing for its own sake, then just crack on and write whatever gives you the greatest enjoyment. Who knows - you might be writing that next literary gem. But even if you are not, it just doesn't matter.

Regards,

Peter

 

[HareBrain]

Reading the Da Vinci code for me was like eating a 500gr bar of cheap chocolate. Past a certain point I not only knew I was getting no nutritional benefit from it, but I'd long since stopped enjoying it. But I couldn't stop.

Have to say though, that in terms of being a sure-fire moneyspinner, the idea was a stroke of genius.

 

[The Procrastinator]

It's probably fairer to say that there two types of reader: the first loves books, appreciates prose, etc; the second just likes to be entertained. That second group of readers, many of whom don't read many books, don't really care about good prose, in fact they'd rather the prose was as simple and transparent as possible. All they car about is a good story, well told.

This is so true, says the bear who didn't like the DaVinci Code, but loves Inspector Rebus and has liked most Tom Clancy she's read.

I heard a recommendation of Kate Mosse's Labyrinth as a "thinking person's DaVinci Code" so I hunted it down second hand, because I too would like to see that kind of plot done by someone who could write, but she didn't cut the mustard either. Anyone read anything along those lines that is actually good??

 

[HareBrain]

Anyone read anything along those lines that is actually good??

I'd recommend you have a go at Foucault's Pendulum by Umberto Eco. I've read it twice for the brilliance of its central conceit, but I'm not sure I'd do so again, it's quite heavy going and very "literary".

If you want something that takes an occult conspiracy seriously, maybe look out The Seventh Sword, by Andrew Collins. This is (supposedly, I'd have to add, though in fact I accept it as such) non-fiction, but acts as a great story, and I found it compelling.

 

[Ursa major]

This is so true, says the bear who didn't like the DaVinci Code, but loves Inspector Rebus and has liked most Tom Clancy she's read.

I too like the Rebus books.

I heard a recommendation of Kate Mosse's Labyrinth as a "thinking person's DaVinci Code" so I hunted it down second hand, because I too would like to see that kind of plot done by someone who could write, but she didn't cut the mustard either. Anyone read anything along those lines that is actually good??

Someone I know lent me the four Brown novels plus Labyrinth. (This was four or five years ago.) Of the five, Angels and Demons was easily the best, followed, at some distance, by The Da Vinci Code. Mosse's book didn't even match this (as a whole: I can't recall whether the prose was any good, but the plot had some gaping holes, even if you buy the mystical stuff). The two other Brown books trailed weel behind that.

The only one of those five that I'd ever dream of reading again would be Angels and Demons: its plot mostly holds together (give or take the rather phrenetic end) and the driving force seems less obviously false and manufactured than in The Da Vince Code. (Oh, and I liked the pictures. )

 

[Pyan]

I'd recommend you have a go at Foucault's Pendulum by Umberto Eco. I've read it twice for the brilliance of its central conceit, but I'm not sure I'd do so again, it's quite heavy going and very "literary".

Or try Eco's earlier The Name of the Rose - not quite the same concept, but having a similar "feel"...

 

[The Procrastinator]

Thanks boys, I shall take your advice - I've been meaning to read The Name of the Rose. If I like it I shall have a go at the Pendulum.

Ursa, I was quite disappointed with Labyrinth. While the prose didn't make me want to fling it across the room (aha, I thought - better than Brown already), the modern sections were all blah. What kept me reading were the medieval Carcassonne bits - those were good. The ending: what was that all about. It was as least as bad as the ending to the DaVinci Code - possibly worse. This book left me wishing the same plot had been written by someone who knew how to tell a story better! Which just goes to show writing style isn't everything.

 

[daalex]

Hmm. This kind of debate somehow always rankles with me. I didn't think the Da Vinci Code was *that* badly written - at least it did not stop me from enjoying the plot and theme.
His other novels so far - different story. The conceit was not as strong, and there the writing did not keep me going.

Still, I don't think all writers should necessarily write high literary prose. Some will do so, others will write in a more "everyday" style. Some will focus on the language, some will focus on the plot, on a clever conceit, or a popular subject matter. Why is the one - i.e. high literary style - necessarily "superior" to the other?

Mind you, I got my MA in English Lit with a discussion of Pynchon's Mason & Dixon - and I loved it. So it's not that I don't like literary literature, not at all. I just feel we sometimes judge other people's prose rather gratuitously... and it does not sound very plausible if people like us (sorry, I presume too much) - me comment overly negatively on the prose of someone as successful as Dan Brown.

Anyway. I also posted about this on my little blog.

 

[Allegra]

Well, no matter how bad it is I'm going to have to read The Lost Symbol just like I had to read The Da Vinci Code and Angels and Demons. You swear at the bad prose, flat characters and cheesy bits but you still can't put it down! It's the guilty pleasure for junk food that you have to indulge occasionally.

 

[The Procrastinator]

Hmm. This kind of debate somehow always rankles with me. I didn't think the Da Vinci Code was *that* badly written - at least it did not stop me from enjoying the plot and theme.
... I just feel we sometimes judge other people's prose rather gratuitously... and it does not sound very plausible if people like us (sorry, I presume too much) - me comment overly negatively on the prose of someone as successful as Dan Brown.

Of course we can comment negatively on prose we don't like, its only our opinions. Itsh not sho sherious ash all that really. I'm not a writer, I'm a reader, and I love to hear what other people like or don't like about books and writing. It helps me when deciding what to buy - and seeing as I'm starving in a garret so to speak, I take all the help I can get. Personally I'm glad I read the DaVinci Code so I can say I've read it (at the time, the social aspect of being able to discuss it when it was all the rage was certainly a factor in its favour, too), but otherwise I wish I hadn't read it and I've avoided Dan Brown ever since. I'm just after a quality, entertaining read. Ideally I'm after keepers, books I will re-read, but I read lots of stuff. I'm not saying Dan Brown doesn't deserve his success, not at all - and I'm certainly not saying the DaVinci Code was a total disaster - it was a roller coaster, and most people love roller coasters. But certain elements of the writing shucked in my opinion, shucked big time, and I was dishappointed by it. Other people enjoyed it, and that's fine. But I didn't - thats my line and I'm shticking to it.

 

[daalex]

Oh - I didn't mean to say you should not express your dislike of his books, or you shouldn't say his prose ****s. It's just the rather lecturing way in which some of us did so that struck me.
Anyway. I'll creep back under my lurking stone now. I most certainly don't want to offend anyone!

kr
david

 

[Ursa major]

Well, no matter how bad it is I'm going to have to read The Lost Symbol just like I had to read The Da Vinci Code and Angels and Demons. You swear at the bad prose, flat characters and cheesy bits but you still can't put it down! It's the guilty pleasure for junk food that you have to indulge occasionally.

If you go really mad and buy a copy, why not - perhaps using gloves or tongs - hand it round to others of similarly weak resolve** so that Brown does not benefit too much from sales of his book or money from the public lending right. (I'm sure he'll get more than enough money whatever you do.)





** - okay, this description may fit me.

 

[Rodders]

I've read all of Dan Brown's books. I'd never say that they were masterpieces, but they were very good for a tube ride. Sort of well written crap. That's why they were so popular.

I think people also "wanted" to believe the conspiracy theory against the church.