Commonmind
Registered Lurker
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I know; what were they thinking?
Has Final Fantasy lost it's charm ?
- Thread starter Armadillo-002
- Start date
Not sure if that's true, about the spoilers. Obviously it looks that way if you play the game and then watch the trailer (did any of you see it beforehand?) but not otherwise, I think. I watched it about a hundred times before I played the game, but because I had no idea who Aeris and Rufus were, I didn't remember the trailer while playing the game. I recognised some bits when they happened, but didn't predict them.
But you see Aeris in the first minute of the game, and then later she is a playable character so if you remember the trailer you know she dies.
Commonmind
Registered Lurker
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I never saw a trailer for it, since I purchased the import. Even when it finally came to the states all I saw was a massive poster at my local Electronics Boutique -- or KB Toys, or wherever I ended up grabbing it. I never caught any of the Final Fantasy commercials -- I vaguely remember seeing one for FFVIII much, much later, after I'd already beaten and replayed the game.
This might have been me being stupid, but when I saw the trailer I didn't assume that the character it showed was dead. Maybe she was being lowered into a healing pool or something? (Even when she died in the game I thought there was at least an even chance that she would be brought back to life at some point.)
mushroomyakuza
Well-Known Member
Oh wow, I really don't know where to start.
First I'll say: Hello FF brothers
Always a joy to find people who are as passionate about FF as you are, and some of you obviously are. I just spent ages reading the entire thread and a lot of points have been discussed.
One key issue that keeps coming up is, if we played the game when we were younger, unaware of other RPG experiences, and if this influenced our perception of the game. Well, it's entirely possible in my case. I came to FFVII without any RPG experience, or knowing what to really expect, except for a great storyline, which is originally what drew me in. It was a new concept to me; for a game to have such an in depth storyline. And, agreeing with Sephiroth, what a storyline it is. Sure, not perfect, but damn close IMO. Cliche ridden, yes, but as Seph says, the game overcomes them - it's the way that cliches are dealt with that make them subverise or at the very least, easy to overlook. It also lovingly gives attention and story to each and every character, even Cait Sith (or Reeve).
So, did being younger affect my experience? Probably. Did it being my first RPG experience affect my judgement? Probably. But, ultimately, that doesn't matter - because the experience I had was incredible. I've been a gamer all my life, but I'd never, ever got into a game as much as I did FFVII. I was addicted. Like, genuinely addicted the way crackheads are addicted to drugs. Some of you may raise an eyebrow at that. Others are smiling and nodding their heads in understanding. It's still my favourite game of all time - I really don't even need to think about it, I don't even need to ask the question.
What's really interesting, and something I have only just remembered, is that I first saw clips of FFVII in a music video type thing that came on a video type with an issue of games master. There were some interesting games on it, but one in particular, was so visually arresting that I felt an other-worldly kind of attachment to it. Unfortunately for me, I had no idea what the game was called, and didn't discover it for several years. Then, a friend at school introduced me to Final Fantasy VII for the PC. My memories of that visually arresting game fell into place - this was it! It was love. Pure and simple, I adored this game. I could wax lyrical about nostalgia for hours.
But, back to the pressing question of the thread: has FF lost its charm? Undoubtedly, yes. Look at VII, then look at XII. There is no comparison. Each game, SquareEnix seem to allow the player a little less control over their characters, story, freeform questing and so on. The soul of the game has been exchanged for the pretty looks and flashy explosions, rather than a compelling narrative with characters we care about. As many of you have pointed out, XII had cardboard cut-out like depth to its characters. I still have absolutely no idea why Vaan was the protagonist or for that matter, why he was even there. Same goes for Penelo.
I long for the days of character focus and parties of 8-9 characters, each fully fleshed out and developed with their own skill set rather than the bare minimum. I also miss airships, world maps, the non-linear structure, decent sidequests, attainable ultimate weapons and decent summons. I mean, is it that hard to give us a straight up return to form? From my perspective, it seems so glaringly simple. SquareEnix need to include these basic, elementary components of what makes an FF game, and they'll win back so many of their fans hearts and minds, even if they still have their wallets.
FFXIII is visaully stunning. I have major concerns about the rest of it though. The characters look like they're going to be as deep as those in XII, and the most recent tidbit regarding summons as "motorcycles" has my toes curling inward. What posses them? Just give us a straight up summon! And for the love of God, get back to basics with the battle system - clear, distinct classes with an ATB system and unique character skill sets, and get back to making weapon upgrades count, and be done regularly. In the FF games of old (6-9), I couldn't wait to get to the new town to see what weapon upgrade awaited me. These days we're either spoiled for choice (FFXII, making the decision almost impossible and altogether meaningless) or given no choice at all (FFX with its "status" affecting weapons...keep it simple!)
Sorry for the rant people, but I do feel I could talk for hours about what SquareEnix should be doing and how they continue to do it so very wrong instead.
As for the FFVII remake, I'm really in two minds about it. On one hand, I'd love to see it get a visual make over, BUT I am such a believer in the game as it is that I would literally want JUST a visual upgrade - the same dialogue, same story, same scenes, even the same camera angles. Anything not sticking firmly the original would be considered blasphamy in my eyes. Although it is tempting to wish for the much-rumoured originall-planned Aeris resurrection. But several things hold me back. For instance, voice acting. We live in an age where voice acting is mandatory in games, and I just can't imagine ever being satisfied with a voice actor reading out Cloud, Barrett, Cid, or anyone else's lines. I didn't like it in Advent Children, I'd be amazed if I'd like it for a fifty hour plus game. Then there's SquareEnix's compulsion to do a George Lucas. One of the reasons I hated Advent Children was, in terms of physics and character's fighting ability, it felt ludicrous, like some episode of Dragonball Z. Cloud, hundreds of feet in the air, cutting Bahamut in half along his spine? Come on. It just really, really didn't ring true for me, and I have a bad feeling SquareEnix couldn't help themselves to really go over the top with action CG if they ever did a remake, and I'm fairly sure it would be horrendous, at the very least, way over the top and completely untrue to the original game's take on fighting. So, I'm powerfully torn. Essentially what I want is the same old granny of a game, just with a major face lift, boob job and lots of airbrushing - I don't want a whole new model.
And everyone should have a look at this...comedic and not to be taken seriously, it nontheless looks like a game I'd love to play.
YouTube - FINAL FANTASY VII-2 by ToNg
Oh, and I also write while listening to Uematsu. FF music is the best. Sometimes the music brings back memories better than replaying the game.
First I'll say: Hello FF brothers
Always a joy to find people who are as passionate about FF as you are, and some of you obviously are. I just spent ages reading the entire thread and a lot of points have been discussed.
One key issue that keeps coming up is, if we played the game when we were younger, unaware of other RPG experiences, and if this influenced our perception of the game. Well, it's entirely possible in my case. I came to FFVII without any RPG experience, or knowing what to really expect, except for a great storyline, which is originally what drew me in. It was a new concept to me; for a game to have such an in depth storyline. And, agreeing with Sephiroth, what a storyline it is
. Sure, not perfect, but damn close IMO. Cliche ridden, yes, but as Seph says, the game overcomes them - it's the way that cliches are dealt with that make them subverise or at the very least, easy to overlook. It also lovingly gives attention and story to each and every character, even Cait Sith (or Reeve). So, did being younger affect my experience? Probably. Did it being my first RPG experience affect my judgement? Probably. But, ultimately, that doesn't matter - because the experience I had was incredible. I've been a gamer all my life, but I'd never, ever got into a game as much as I did FFVII. I was addicted. Like, genuinely addicted the way crackheads are addicted to drugs. Some of you may raise an eyebrow at that. Others are smiling and nodding their heads in understanding. It's still my favourite game of all time - I really don't even need to think about it, I don't even need to ask the question.
What's really interesting, and something I have only just remembered, is that I first saw clips of FFVII in a music video type thing that came on a video type with an issue of games master. There were some interesting games on it, but one in particular, was so visually arresting that I felt an other-worldly kind of attachment to it. Unfortunately for me, I had no idea what the game was called, and didn't discover it for several years. Then, a friend at school introduced me to Final Fantasy VII for the PC. My memories of that visually arresting game fell into place - this was it! It was love. Pure and simple, I adored this game. I could wax lyrical about nostalgia for hours.
But, back to the pressing question of the thread: has FF lost its charm? Undoubtedly, yes. Look at VII, then look at XII. There is no comparison. Each game, SquareEnix seem to allow the player a little less control over their characters, story, freeform questing and so on. The soul of the game has been exchanged for the pretty looks and flashy explosions, rather than a compelling narrative with characters we care about. As many of you have pointed out, XII had cardboard cut-out like depth to its characters. I still have absolutely no idea why Vaan was the protagonist or for that matter, why he was even there. Same goes for Penelo.
I long for the days of character focus and parties of 8-9 characters, each fully fleshed out and developed with their own skill set rather than the bare minimum. I also miss airships, world maps, the non-linear structure, decent sidequests, attainable ultimate weapons and decent summons. I mean, is it that hard to give us a straight up return to form? From my perspective, it seems so glaringly simple. SquareEnix need to include these basic, elementary components of what makes an FF game, and they'll win back so many of their fans hearts and minds, even if they still have their wallets.
FFXIII is visaully stunning. I have major concerns about the rest of it though. The characters look like they're going to be as deep as those in XII, and the most recent tidbit regarding summons as "motorcycles" has my toes curling inward. What posses them? Just give us a straight up summon! And for the love of God, get back to basics with the battle system - clear, distinct classes with an ATB system and unique character skill sets, and get back to making weapon upgrades count, and be done regularly. In the FF games of old (6-9), I couldn't wait to get to the new town to see what weapon upgrade awaited me. These days we're either spoiled for choice (FFXII, making the decision almost impossible and altogether meaningless) or given no choice at all (FFX with its "status" affecting weapons...keep it simple!)
Sorry for the rant people, but I do feel I could talk for hours about what SquareEnix should be doing and how they continue to do it so very wrong instead.
As for the FFVII remake, I'm really in two minds about it. On one hand, I'd love to see it get a visual make over, BUT I am such a believer in the game as it is that I would literally want JUST a visual upgrade - the same dialogue, same story, same scenes, even the same camera angles. Anything not sticking firmly the original would be considered blasphamy in my eyes. Although it is tempting to wish for the much-rumoured originall-planned Aeris resurrection. But several things hold me back. For instance, voice acting. We live in an age where voice acting is mandatory in games, and I just can't imagine ever being satisfied with a voice actor reading out Cloud, Barrett, Cid, or anyone else's lines. I didn't like it in Advent Children, I'd be amazed if I'd like it for a fifty hour plus game. Then there's SquareEnix's compulsion to do a George Lucas. One of the reasons I hated Advent Children was, in terms of physics and character's fighting ability, it felt ludicrous, like some episode of Dragonball Z. Cloud, hundreds of feet in the air, cutting Bahamut in half along his spine? Come on. It just really, really didn't ring true for me, and I have a bad feeling SquareEnix couldn't help themselves to really go over the top with action CG if they ever did a remake, and I'm fairly sure it would be horrendous, at the very least, way over the top and completely untrue to the original game's take on fighting. So, I'm powerfully torn. Essentially what I want is the same old granny of a game, just with a major face lift, boob job and lots of airbrushing - I don't want a whole new model.
And everyone should have a look at this...comedic and not to be taken seriously, it nontheless looks like a game I'd love to play.
YouTube - FINAL FANTASY VII-2 by ToNg
Oh, and I also write while listening to Uematsu. FF music is the best. Sometimes the music brings back memories better than replaying the game.
Sephiroth
Causa Scientiae
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2007
- Messages
- 2,608
Great post, mushroomyakuza. And welcome to the Chrons! It's always good to have another FF-head join the party. I have plenty more to say, that I don't (unfortunately) have time to say, atm, but I'll get 'round to it...sooner or later....... ^_^
Seems like we agree about many things, which is always good.
HareBrain, I had a big long post typed out about my FFVII soundtrack listening habits, but I decided in the end that it was a bit much, and would probably bore you all to tears. So I started listening to the CDs again, to see if I could narrow down my list of favourites to, perhaps, half a dozen or so...............
No dice. :S
Well, I was getting there, but the sound on my motherboard packed in before I got to Disc 4 again.
I will say that all of the tracks you mentioned are fantastic. I totally get why you listen to Birth Of A God when cycling. And I still get a sort of sick feeling in my stomach and a sense of terrible foreboding when You Can Hear The Cry Of The Planet comes on (I get a similar, but less powerful effect from Forested Temple -- those are two of my absolute favourites, sooo atmospheric).
I could go on and on about those and other tracks, but I shall curb my tongue -- for now -- because I have to be off cooking dinner.
Couldn't agree more.
Seems like we agree about many things, which is always good.
HareBrain, I had a big long post typed out about my FFVII soundtrack listening habits, but I decided in the end that it was a bit much, and would probably bore you all to tears. So I started listening to the CDs again, to see if I could narrow down my list of favourites to, perhaps, half a dozen or so...............
No dice. :S
Well, I was getting there, but the sound on my motherboard packed in before I got to Disc 4 again.
I will say that all of the tracks you mentioned are fantastic. I totally get why you listen to Birth Of A God when cycling.
And I still get a sort of sick feeling in my stomach and a sense of terrible foreboding when You Can Hear The Cry Of The Planet comes on (I get a similar, but less powerful effect from Forested Temple -- those are two of my absolute favourites, sooo atmospheric). I could go on and on about those and other tracks, but I shall curb my tongue -- for now -- because I have to be off cooking dinner.
Couldn't agree more.
Red 13
Final Fantasy 7 nutter
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2010
- Messages
- 178
I play every new Final Fantasy that comes out and usually enjoy them but i loved FF7 so much that i tend to be dissapointed by the newer one's. Of course i'm gonna play FF13 but i'm not expecting it to be better than FF7. As for the rumours of the remake of FF7, it kinda worries me. I'm sure it will be good buuuuuut...its not the original!!
I bought the soundtrack of FF7 too, i love the song from the final battle against Sephiroth (who btw, is the coolest bad guy in video game history!).
I bought the soundtrack of FF7 too, i love the song from the final battle against Sephiroth (who btw, is the coolest bad guy in video game history!).
Talysia
Lady of Autumn
Welcome to Chronicles, Red, from another FF fan! (particularly FF7, hence the avatar)
I've loved all of the Final Fantasy titles, but I haven't enjoyed the later ones as much recently - probably because I've changed a bit in my gaming habits. The earlier ones held a lot of charm for me (6, 7 and 9 especially), and what they lacked in graphics they made up for in story or characters, despite any of the obvious plotholes or flaws.
I probably won't play FF13, largely because I can't afford to get a PS3 right now, but I'm glad that the franchise is continuing long after that original, and supposedly final Final Fantasy.
I'm another fan of the FF music, too, although I haven't got any of the official soundtracks. I'll have to resort to playing the game through again.
)I've loved all of the Final Fantasy titles, but I haven't enjoyed the later ones as much recently - probably because I've changed a bit in my gaming habits. The earlier ones held a lot of charm for me (6, 7 and 9 especially), and what they lacked in graphics they made up for in story or characters, despite any of the obvious plotholes or flaws.
I probably won't play FF13, largely because I can't afford to get a PS3 right now, but I'm glad that the franchise is continuing long after that original, and supposedly final Final Fantasy.
I'm another fan of the FF music, too, although I haven't got any of the official soundtracks. I'll have to resort to playing the game through again.
7,8,9 are all good to go back too from time to time. Thankfully VII was released on PS3 so I can play it. VIII is not yet released on PS3 in australia, but I hope they release 9 as well.
I dislike the fact there are not towns or anything anymore. However I did love FF12.
I dislike the fact there are not towns or anything anymore. However I did love FF12.
Talysia
Lady of Autumn
Yes, that was a gripe of mine, Cayal. It doesn't feel quite the same with the current system (in the few recent games I've played, anyway - might be different now).
And yes, Red, FF9 was one of my favourites, too. After 8, it was good to get back to a more fantasy-based setting, and the characters had a lot of charm. The final boss sort of caught me off-guard, though - I'd rather have had Kuja or Garland as a final boss. That's just me, though.
And yes, Red, FF9 was one of my favourites, too. After 8, it was good to get back to a more fantasy-based setting, and the characters had a lot of charm. The final boss sort of caught me off-guard, though - I'd rather have had Kuja or Garland as a final boss. That's just me, though.
Red 13
Final Fantasy 7 nutter
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2010
- Messages
- 178
Yeah i liked FF9 because it was similar to FF7. I think they should of brought out FF9 before FF8 because FF8 was so different and the characters weren't as charming (apart from Laguna who was kinda fun).
Cayal, i think you would enjoy FF9. Hopefully it will be out soon on PS3.
I actually really disliked FF12, i found that the story wasn't very good and i didn't really care for the characters or the fighting system. Maybe i'm just getting old, lol!
Cayal, i think you would enjoy FF9. Hopefully it will be out soon on PS3.
I actually really disliked FF12, i found that the story wasn't very good and i didn't really care for the characters or the fighting system. Maybe i'm just getting old, lol!
Talysia
Lady of Autumn
I didn't mind FF12 (it's been ages since I last played it - I think it was the only FF game I played through only once), but there were a few things I wasn't keen on. The storyline was one: I felt it could have been stronger, somehow, and the characters were another, but it looked great and I felt the voices fit. I liked the individual missions, too. Looking back, I think I'd probably give it another play if I found a 2nd hand copy somewhere.
Actually, I think that might be where the charm might be starting to fade, for me at least. These days, the graphics are so much better that the characters can look that much more realistic, and I tend to miss the more exaggerated character designs of games gone by, so to speak. Or I might just be a fan of the older style JRPGs.
Actually, I think that might be where the charm might be starting to fade, for me at least. These days, the graphics are so much better that the characters can look that much more realistic, and I tend to miss the more exaggerated character designs of games gone by, so to speak. Or I might just be a fan of the older style JRPGs.
I think certain parts of 12 were excellent. I loved the battle system and although I liked the judges and the political aspect of the storyline I think it was a bit underdeveloped.
However, like many FF games, 12 suffered from Pointless Character Syndrome. Vaan was less annoying than Tidus, but still irrelevant (and endowed with the most angular sixpack this side of a Mega Drive) and Penelo was unnecessary as well.
Not a big issue for me, but the general graphics were slightly poor as well.
Not so sure about the next instalment. Apparently the graphics are absolutely mind-blowing, but it's very linear. I'm going to wait for the reviews and possibly skip it. God of War 3 comes out around that time anyway, so I'll probably get that instead.
However, like many FF games, 12 suffered from Pointless Character Syndrome. Vaan was less annoying than Tidus, but still irrelevant (and endowed with the most angular sixpack this side of a Mega Drive) and Penelo was unnecessary as well.
Not a big issue for me, but the general graphics were slightly poor as well.
Not so sure about the next instalment. Apparently the graphics are absolutely mind-blowing, but it's very linear. I'm going to wait for the reviews and possibly skip it. God of War 3 comes out around that time anyway, so I'll probably get that instead.
I've played all Final Fantasies, except XI.
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