The Short Story Thread

Which ones did you try?

Hi, sorry, didn't mean to imply Varley isn't any good - which isn't the case at all. The volume was In the Halls of the Martian Kings, and I went through a couple of stories. There was some lovely writing and many superb ideas - my problem was that I seemed to know what was going to happen next in the plotting - it seemed quite methodical and mechanical.

Sometimes I can read without constantly second-guessing an author's intention, and I think Varley might be best left for those times.
 
I didn't take it to mean you think he's a bad writer. I haven't read enough of his work yet to be his advocate. I was just curious about which stories you've read. I've read a couple by Varley recently ("Picnic on Nearside" and "Overdrawn at the Memory Bank") so I wanted to see which particular stories you didn't like to see if I come away with the same impression after I read them.

Other recent shorts:

"Never Blood Enough" - Joe Haldeman (average)
"The Things That Make Me Weak and Strange Get Engineered Away" - Cory Doctorow (good)
 
It's excellent - everyone is in there from Blackwood to Walpole. 1300 pages or so. There is a followup volume, A Second Century of Creepy Stories.
Fantastic. 1300 pages, and there's a second volume. My brain hurts. Anyway, your copy of THE STANDING JOY will probably be arriving any day now, but until then here's my beat up copy:
TheStandingJoy11032011_0000.jpg

Even if the cover mirrors the story in some justifiable way, in great shape this wouldn't do it for me. They could have done better.
 
I haven't read enough of his work yet to be his advocate.

I'll advocate. :) For me, The Persistence of Vision and The Barbie Murders (I think it's also called Picnic on Nearside) are indispensable. After a flood of stories in the mid/late 70s, he tapered off in a big way, but that flood was pretty remarkable to me. I find that he wrote very imaginative, creative stories in a sort of mildly pyrotechnic style (if that makes any sense) and visualized a very tech oriented society. Like Heinlein, it's very lived in and concrete and he plays with social and gender expectations and most stories form a loose future history (or have a shared milieu, anyway) and, like Zelazny, he was a really prolific, stylish writer who burned out too soon (relatively speaking - both continued to produce some intermittent good short work after their floods).
 
Ok, so I've read several more of Varley's short stories from The John Varley Reader and they've all been very good. I also listened to a podcast of another from Starship Sofa called "The Bagetelle" which I liked too. I haven't even gotten to "The Persistence of Vision", "Air Raid" or "PRESS ENTER", arguably his three most famous. The publisher has this to say about Varley:

His first collection, The Persistence of Vision, published in 1978, was the most important collection of the decade, and changed what fans would come to expect from science fiction.

That's quite an endorsement.
 
Ok, so I've read several more of Varley's short stories from The John Varley Reader and they've all been very good. I also listened to a podcast of another from Starship Sofa called "The Bagetelle" which I liked too. I haven't even gotten to "The Persistence of Vision", "Air Raid" or "PRESS ENTER", arguably his three most famous.

Ironically, I'm not that big a fan of "PE". "Air Raid" was turned into what I recall as being a really bad novel (and probably worse movie) but is a good story. And "POV" is really good.

The publisher has this to say about Varley:

His first collection, The Persistence of Vision, published in 1978, was the most important collection of the decade, and changed what fans would come to expect from science fiction.

That's quite an endorsement.

Yep - it's certainly among them, but a lot of great collections came out in the 70s - when you have Tiptree, Zelazny, Spinrad, Silverberg, Pohl, Le Guin, Ellison, Budrys, etc., and many of the Golden Age masters still kicking, any "the" most anything has to be hyperbole.

Speaking of 70s collections (sort of) - I just finished The Worlds of Theodore Sturgeon, a 1972 collection that is oddly concentrated in two small periods exactly a decade apart: 3 stories from 1956-8 and 5 stories from 1946-8 (and one from 1941). I think the last Sturgeon collection I discussed was Sturgeon in Orbit in the May reading thread. This one is a much more substantial collection of 9 stories weighing in at 286 pages[1].

It starts okay, but not great. "The Skills of Xanadu" is an imaginative story about a lackey from a sort of dystopian society meeting up with an apparently utopian one and a struggle for supremacy. Kind of a premonitory 60s vibe and vaguely Farmerish. (I'd already read this in The Golden Helix but it had been a long time.)

Then it gets a little worse with "There Is No Defense", a very Astounding-type story of interstellar intrigue and super-weapons. (All but two of the 40s stories are Astounding/Unknown tales.) I love Astounding and I love Sturgeon but Sturgeon didn't always sit quite as comfortably in the Campbell stable as some did. It's still a fine, readable story, though.

Then it goes on a great run: I was reading "The Perfect Host" around Halloween and thought about mentioning it on a Halloween-type thread but never got around to it. This was published in 1948 in Weird Tales and is, well, a really powerfully weird tale riffing on possession. Excellent characterization and one of the better symphonies of emotion Sturgeon sometimes constructs that never becomes mawkish or sentimental or anything. It's actually a pretty tough, disturbing tale.

"The Graveyard Reader" starts even better though it ended with the tiniest of disappointments. Because the start was so good, I was expecting some kind of transcendental epiphany at the end and that was just unrealistic - it's a good ending, but not as satisfying as I wanted it to be. Anyway - a tale of a recently widowed man and a strange character who "reads graves" and teaches the widower to do so. A lot of indirection and hinting.

"The Other Man" is a fascinating clinical psychology tale that again sets up the emotional train wrecks in the punning title: at the request of the woman who left him, a doctor works on the heel she left him for. The relations of the doctor, heel, ex-girl, and nurse(s) and the depiction of some very abnormal psychology is really well done.

Hard to pick which of the three is the best but those alone would be worth a full price of admission.

"The Sky Was Full of Ships" has a ruinous title and is fairly minor, but enjoyable to read and a good exercise in narrative voice and has an interesting structure.

"Shottle Bop" is an excellent example of the "weird magic shop" story and a pretty good ghost tale, as well. I like the way it achieves its ending (even if you can see it for miles) which is difficult to set up plausibly.

"Maturity" can't be compared to the great "Flowers for Algernon" but it is still slightly reminiscent of it in the way that it is another clinical psychology story (actually, using glandular manipulation in this case) in which its main character is transformed but not quite in the way expected. I can't go into it too much without spoiling it, but it's only a slight resemblance. This is another story that makes me think an interesting comparative study of the van Vogtian and Sturgeonesque superman could be written.

Finally, I'm not sure what to think of "Memorial". It's kind of another example of uneasy marriage of Astounding and Sturgeon and also a little preachy or at least overtly a "message" story but it seems to me its message gets a little mixed up in the presentation.

But five of the nine are indispensable and the other four aren't bad.

[1] Bibliophile note some might find (more) boring: One of the coolest things about this collection for the used mass-market paperback buyer is that Sturgeon put out his first collection, Without Sorcery (1948) as a small press hardcover. One story from it ("Microcosmic God") was reprinted in Caviar (1955) but the rest of the contents were never made available in paperback until Not Without Sorcery (1961) and, even then, "MG" and four other stories got cut. TWO reprints three of the four at the end. The last finally appeared in The Golden Helix (1979).
 
Varley talks about how "Air Raid" came into being while at a workshop with Damon Knight and Kate Wilhelm. He went home and wrote it in one night and then he goes on to explain its mutation into the abomination of the film Millenium. The background before each story is one of the things that makes the book so interesting.

I finished "Beatnik Bayou," one of his many Eight Worlds stories and the first of any of his I didn't really get. A bizarre and taboo breaking story about a young boy learning about adulthood from two different teachers, a literal mud-slinging incident and a computer's adjudication of the case.

I have Sturgeon's The Golden Helix but haven't read it yet. I'm very much into short fiction at the moment, even more so than usual.
 
Varley talks about how "Air Raid" came into being while at a workshop with Damon Knight and Kate Wilhelm. He went home and wrote it in one night and then he goes on to explain its mutation into the abomination of the film Millenium. The background before each story is one of the things that makes the book so interesting.

Thanks for pointing that out - I should get to the library and see if they have it. I don't really want to buy it, as I've probably got most every story in it, but I would like to read the commentary.

I finished "Beatnik Bayou," one of his many Eight Worlds stories and the first of any of his I didn't really get. A bizarre and taboo breaking story about a young boy learning about adulthood from two different teachers, a literal mud-slinging incident and a computer's adjudication of the case.

I vaguely remember it and don't remember it not making sense, but I probably can't help. Probably time to re-read.

I have Sturgeon's The Golden Helix but haven't read it yet. I'm very much into short fiction at the moment, even more so than usual.

Hope you enjoy it when you get to it. That's another it's time for me to re-read but I've got so much stuff still to read in the first place. (I don't know whether to be happy or upset about that.)
 
I listened to "The Barrens" by F. Paul Wilson the other day which was a three part serial podcast. The story was superb and it was done as tribute to some guy named Lovecraft. The end is sticking with me, always a sign of good horror. Anybody read any other short stuff from Wilson?
 
Not yet though his collection SOFT is sitting on my bookcase a few feet away, just waiting for its turn. Thought I would get to it last month but didn't make it.
 
I read Comfort To The Enemy novella by legendary crime novelist Elmore Leonard.

Deputy US Marshal Carl Webster is investigating a death in a POW Camp for German soldiers in Oklahoma. I like how it was a character study than crime novel, crime plot. The crime was solved like an afterthought. It dealt with many characters that were very believable as people for a novella. Also dealt with serious issue like the idea that German prisoners of war in US in 1944 might not be like the Nazi mass murderers as people assume.

As usual Elmore Leonard wrote dialogue that was serious,quirky like few writers can, every minor character was dealt with as carefully, smoothly as major characters like the lead hero. I have read some of his 70s,80s,90s novels,stories and his writing in this collection, other 2000s books are his best writing, he is still in the top of his game. I cant say the same about many other great writers with long careers.
 
Frederik Pohl's The Gold at the Starbow's End is a kind of strange collection. Two very long novellas are the bookends, between which are two novelettes, between which is a short story, and that's it. And it's extremely concentrated: all but one story is from 1972 and the one is from 1970. They're basically five consecutively published stories (five of six at most). These would probably have been the first fruits of the time gained by no longer editing Galaxy/If and harbingers of the Man Plus and Gateway to come.

Indeed, the last novella, and the best story, is a sort of precursor to Gateway, being a Heechee story set on Venus. "The Merchants of Venus" fits squarely in a line of stories from Heinlein to Varley. A dying man needs a large sum of money for his life-saving operation on a pretty cut-throat Venus. A rich old tourist (but young through the "Full Medical" his money buys) and his lovely young lady show up and they all lie to each other to varying degrees and go prospecting for Heechee treasure amidst the winds, pressures, and acids (only some of which are planetary). I dunno if people looking for the great literary stuff would mark it as great or not but it's a very well constructed and executed taut, gripping, fun read, with some very satisfying twists.

The next best (maybe even better in ways) is "Call Me Million". Without spoiling, I can't say much about this very short, almost Sturgeonesque tale of a sort of psychic cannibalism beyond that it's very well-written and packs a punch.

The other stories are all quite readable, but lesser. "Shaffery Among the Immortals" is a very amusingly quirky tale of a second-rate scientist's improbable pursuit of immortality (in the sense of "enduring fame") with a vicious (arguably too vicious) barb in the tail. The lead and title novella, "The Gold at the Starbow's End", is a very nearly fascinating tale of a scientific and political con man's instigation of a bizarre interstellar journey. It's socially dated, the premise isn't particularly plausible, and there's quite a bit of handwavium so it doesn't satisfy, but includes quite a bit of interest. (A decade later, it was expanded into Starburst.) The least is probably "Sad Solarian Screenwriter Sam" in which parody aliens don't quite want to demolish Earth for an interstellar highway, but it kind of gives the idea.

Given that it's an entire book with only two great stories, it's hard to recommend unreservedly, but I still recommend it. And, seeing's how the award folks disagree with me, it's probably got something for everybody. Of my two favorites, only "Venus" received only a Locus nomination. Of the "lesser" ones, "Shaffery" was a Nebula nominee (which I originally read in Nebula Award Stories 8) and "Gold" was a Hugo and Nebula nominee and Locus winner. The collection, itself, was also a Locus nominee.
 
Yeah, I haven't read much either - I've read probably half a dozen solo novels, a couple of solo collections, and three Kornbluth collaborations and several things in anthologies and magazines, mostly in a couple of phases. Strangely, I've got a couple of Kornbluth collaborations (one collection) and a couple more solo collections waiting to be read (a lot, proportionally). I didn't like three of the solo novels but I liked two or three of them very much and I've liked all the stuff with Kornbluth quite a bit. I guess it could depend on what was read in what order.

What non-fiction did you enjoy? I think all I've read is The Way the Future Was (which I liked a lot) and his blog, The Way the Future Blogs (which is variable but usually quite interesting).
 
Mostly articles --- not just sf but one or two historical articles also --- in magazines and introductions in any anthology/collection I have by him. I have THE WAY THE FUTURE WAS and have read parts of it but don't think I ever sat down and read the whole thing though I really should. You read a lot more of him than I have. After A PLAGUE OF PYTHONS I just steered around his novels and his short stories have never made much of an impact except as potholes on the sf highway. Not sure what the problem is. But I've always enjoyed his nonfiction when I came across it.
 
Oh, I see. I don't think I've been fortunate enough to come across many of his articles. History does seem to be one of his strong suits - for instance, it's frequently mentioned that he was "the Encyclopedia Britannica's authority on the Emperor Tiberius" for a time.

Some authors just don't click with some people - I know that's the case with me. But, while Pohl's not one of my elite favorites, he's definitely a part of my SF landscape. But if I'd read, say, Slave Ship first, he wouldn't have made any impression on me. If you haven't read Man Plus or Gateway and want to give him another try, or The Best of Frederik Pohl for his stories (which, aside from editing, was his early focus), I'd recommend those top three. (Though I didn't much like the Gateway sequels I read - which I forget about and which means I've read around eight Pohl novels, I guess - and have never read the belated "collaborative" sequel to Man Plus.) But if he doesn't float your boat, I'm sure you've got enough other stuff to read. :)

And, to be fair, it's been a zillion years since I read the novels and I don't know how they'd hold up, but I sure did like them then and "Merchants" made me want to go re-read both The Space Merchants and Gateway, though that'll have to wait.
 
Actually MAN PLUS and GATEWAY are two novels I've been wanting to try, but I have a sneaking suspicion my next Pohl book may be this:

PlanetsThree.jpg
 
Hm. :) That may be a lot of fun but, as I understand it, it's two 40s stories and one that he wrote for the book around - was it '82? I've never read any of his solo work before the 50s and have never been given much cause to seek it out. But if you like it, let me know and, if you don't, don't hold it against the 70s stuff. ;)
 
I like the night children short story, published at Tor.com. It is good in its description and building of tension, and sad ending.
 
The lead and title novella, "The Gold at the Starbow's End", is a very nearly fascinating tale of a scientific and political con man's instigation of a bizarre interstellar journey. It's socially dated, the premise isn't particularly plausible, and there's quite a bit of handwavium so it doesn't satisfy, but includes quite a bit of interest. (A decade later, it was expanded into Starburst.)

I think The Gold at Starbow's End is one of my favourite stories, by anyone. It has all the faults you mention, but there's just something about it that I think is awe-inspiring.
 

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