What if Jon is the unlikely hero....

[xLORDSNOWx]

It appears that theres going to be a 3 headed dragon. However, what if Jon isn't one of the three and in the end he with the assistance of his supporters/followers end up sitting the Iron Throne (which i believe will be either resurected or will be somewhere different)

He definately has the leadership qualities, and the "IT" factor in which i believe will take him to the end game. With that being said, i think he will also be the one who takes down some of our other favorite characters.

Any thoughts.....

 

[The Imp]

My firs thought is you guessed correctly in the WHo Said Taht thread and still haven't put up a quote

I'll need to think about you post before I respond.

 

[The Imp]

It appears that theres going to be a 3 headed dragon. However, what if Jon isn't one of the three and in the end he with the assistance of his supporters/followers end up sitting the Iron Throne (which i believe will be either resurected or will be somewhere different)

He definately has the leadership qualities, and the "IT" factor in which i believe will take him to the end game. With that being said, i think he will also be the one who takes down some of our other favorite characters.

Any thoughts.....

WHom would your 3 heads of the dragon be?

I actually think that with Jin being the lawful heir to Winterfell he at the very least becomes King in the North. I've also beleived for a while that the "end game" will somehow involve the STarks and their wolves. I was thinking today while doing yet another re-read of AGOT that there's no reason to think that Ghost and Nymeria couldn't have pups and replace Sansa's lost wolf, although that might not matter a whole lot.

 

[Lynon]

I think that it would take something very important to make Jon leave the Night's Watch. He seems to take his vow very seriously. The only way I can see Jon leaving is if it can somehow be construed that he is doing it to protect Westeros, which is what the Night's Watch swear to do.

 

[xLORDSNOWx]

WHom would your 3 heads of the dragon be?

I actually think that with Jin being the lawful heir to Winterfell he at the very least becomes King in the North. I've also beleived for a while that the "end game" will somehow involve the STarks and their wolves. I was thinking today while doing yet another re-read of AGOT that there's no reason to think that Ghost and Nymeria couldn't have pups and replace Sansa's lost wolf, although that might not matter a whole lot.

WHom would your 3 heads of the dragon be?
That's hard to say. I think Dany will be one, and i believe there will be one that hasnt been introduced. The third.......(a ******* maybe)

I was thinking today while doing yet another re-read of AGOT that there's no reason to think that Ghost and Nymeria couldn't have pups and replace Sansa's lost wolf
That's an interesting thought, but you're right it may not make too much a difference.

Unless, (I'm really reaching now) what if in the very end there arent any or many living men left only Wolves, Dragons, and Crows, etc. left with their respective Wargs embedded into their thinking.

The only reason i say this is because of how Bran always stays too long when warging which makes Jogen nervous and upset, (as well as him forgetting to mark trees, etc.) However, what would happen if he did stay too long and couldnt come back to his human form? Would Jogen, Hodor, and Meera be talking to the wolf?

Also, what if the three eyed crow is actually a member of the nights watch and not a literal crow?

(Again, really reaching) It's not like we have anything else to do while we wait for the next book

 

[xLORDSNOWx]

I think that it would take something very important to make Jon leave the Night's Watch. He seems to take his vow very seriously. The only way I can see Jon leaving is if it can somehow be construed that he is doing it to protect Westeros, which is what the Night's Watch swear to do.

I agree, but dont you find it amusing that Ned and Jon have done some of the most un honorable things, for their own reasons.

Ned: Fathered a ******* and wont even give anybody the satisfaction of explaining himself (as an honorable man would do)....yes, i know about the promise he made

Jon: Leaving the Wall the first time, Igrette, and killing Halfhand. yes, i know about his agreement with him

Obviously, they were very good reasons for each, but do you think George is done giving Jon a very good reason to leave the wall, even more so than the previous reasons he's had? If he has to leave at all.

The ish is about to hit the fan. I think Jon saw what being loyal, and honorable to a fault did too his (clearing my throat) father.

One question: If Ned knew what Joffrey was going to do, do you think he would have still lied about being a turn cloak? Even with his honor and all...

He lost his honor, his head, and his daughters in one fatal swing of a blade.

 

[viZion]

Ned: Fathered a ******* and wont even give anybody the satisfaction of explaining himself (as an honorable man would do)....yes, i know about the promise he made.

I'm going to ask you a question and since this is the internet it's going to sound condescending, but I don't mean it to be that way. Are you new to this series or new to discussing the series? I could also be misunderstanding what you're saying here.

I don't think anyone on this forum believes Ned is the father of Jon. His promise to Lyanna was that he would protect Jon. So he did the honorable thing and kept his promise by saying he was the father of Jon which caused him to be dishonored in the eyes of everyone else. He can't explain himself because that would blow Jon's cover and his loyalty to Lyanna in this case trumps being honorable to everyone else by explaining himself. The Eddard Stark Moral System is kinda weird. I won't get too much more into it in case you already know all of this. And if you have no clue what I'm talking about then there are quite a few threads that discuss this. Look for anything involving "R+L=J". TK-421 will be along shortly to show you the way .

 

[xLORDSNOWx]

@viZion

Are you new to this series or new to discussing the series?
Yes, and yes.
I started and finished the series last year (sorry to those who have been waiting years) Recently finished the Dunk and Egg tales as well.

I don't think anyone on this forum believes Ned is the father of Jon.
Not condescending either, but as far as what has been documented and discussed within the book it is said that he is Ned's son. Aside from the theories, we can only believe what is actually in print. I do understand the "R+L=J" theory, but then again its just that, a theory.

The Eddard Stark Moral System is kinda weird.
This was the basis of my point. If you did a poll on this forum of who you think is the most honorable man in ASOIAF, i can almost gaurantee that it will be Ned, even with the unimaginable of letting everyone in the book think he fathered a *******. How many times did we hear some of the characters talking behind his back about his ******* when he acts so high and mighty?

With that being said, Ned is one of my favorite characters and i dont look down upon him as i may other characters in the book. Hell, I'm starting to like Jaimie when he's the one who crippled Bran It's amazing how good writing can make mulitdimensional characters seem so real.

I hope this didnt come off as edgy, i appreciated your comment.

"You better learn something Jon Snow"

I'm sure TK will tear me to shreds as well. I'm sure my comments are littered with inconsistencies that he will be able to go through with a fine toothed comb

 

[Clansman]

WHom would your 3 heads of the dragon be?

I actually think that with Jin being the lawful heir to Winterfell he at the very least becomes King in the North. I've also beleived for a while that the "end game" will somehow involve the STarks and their wolves. I was thinking today while doing yet another re-read of AGOT that there's no reason to think that Ghost and Nymeria couldn't have pups and replace Sansa's lost wolf, although that might not matter a whole lot.

Since when is Jon the rightful heir to Winterfell? He ain't, because he is illegitimate, and there are two legitimate sons ahead of him in line, namely Bran and then Rickon (Bran might be disallowed, due to his "infirmity", but what about Robert Arryn for infirm?). Then, if they don't inherit, Sansa is up next, followed by Arya. Then you go to cousins and such. Jon is waaaaaay down the line for rightful heir to Winterfell, and that is even if you actually believe that Jon is Ned's son (which no one does).

Westeros is pretty steeped in primogeniture, although it doesn't stop unscrupulous lords from propping up false heirs hear and there (the false Sansa, for instance).

But all this is moot, since Jon will not be Lord in Winterfell, or King of the North. His future is as Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, with the Wall, and with the coming Winter. I would be very surprised if Jon gets overly involved with the squabbles to the South.

 

[viZion]

@viZion
I don't think anyone on this forum believes Ned is the father of Jon.
Not condescending either, but as far as what has been documented and discussed within the book it is said that he is Ned's son. Aside from the theories, we can only believe what is actually in print. I do understand the "R+L=J" theory, but then again its just that, a theory.

The Eddard Stark Moral System is kinda weird.
This was the basis of my point. If you did a poll on this forum of who you think is the most honorable man in ASOIAF, i can almost gaurantee that it will be Ned, even with the unimaginable of letting everyone in the book think he fathered a *******. How many times did we hear some of the characters talking behind his back about his ******* when he acts so high and mighty?

Haha, I'm pretty sure the question "Who is the most honorable character?" has actually been a poll here! I'll have to look later and see if I can find it.

I'd argue that the R+L=J is in print. You're right, it's not explicitly stated but the clues that are given in the book just seem to scream that it's true. The thing I love about GRRM's best clues is that they can be interpreted two ways. There's the obvious way which is usually wrong. And then the "outside the box" way which is correct. "Promise me, Ned" is one of those types of clues. "The seed is strong" is another one (I know that has nothing to do with Jon..it's just another example). It would be funny if we were all totally wrong about it though!

 

[The Imp]

Since when is Jon the rightful heir to Winterfell? He ain't, because he is illegitimate, and there are two legitimate sons ahead of him in line, namely Bran and then Rickon (Bran might be disallowed, due to his "infirmity", but what about Robert Arryn for infirm?). Then, if they don't inherit, Sansa is up next, followed by Arya. Then you go to cousins and such. Jon is waaaaaay down the line for rightful heir to Winterfell, and that is even if you actually believe that Jon is Ned's son (which no one does).

Westeros is pretty steeped in primogeniture, although it doesn't stop unscrupulous lords from propping up false heirs hear and there (the false Sansa, for instance).

But all this is moot, since Jon will not be Lord in Winterfell, or King of the North. His future is as Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, with the Wall, and with the coming Winter. I would be very surprised if Jon gets overly involved with the squabbles to the South.

Robb very clearly made Jon his heir, had his bannermen witness his doing this etc. Whether or not it will ever happen is certainly unknown, and the other children will come into play, but, GRRM didn't throw that in just to type some extra words. I have to beleive that RObb's act will come into play, maybe in ADWD, maybe later. In any case, you can't utterly dismiss the idea.

 

[Ursa major]

...(the false Sansa, for instance).

That's the false Arya, isn't it?

 

[Culhwch]

I don't think anyone on this forum believes Ned is the father of Jon.

Hey, I'm a firm believer! Even if at this stage it's through a mixture of stubborness and the hope that I'll be the only one here who'll be able to say, 'Told you so!' after the big reveal.

I'm sure I had better reasons once, but they may be lost to time (though likely recorded in these forums...).

 

[Clansman]

That's the false Arya, isn't it?

Ooooops.

 

[the smiling weirwood]

Well for one, Jon is too likely of a hero, therefore, he probably won't be. Not in the traditional boy hero way, anyhow. He just fits that mold too easily for GRRM to use him that way.

Secondly, Robb's act was to legitimize Jon, which would de facto make him his heir since he's older than the other boys, but only a king can legitimize someone, and so the legality of the legitimization could be contested since he's no longer a king, shouldn't have been king, etc. Essentially it would boil down to who has the biggest army to back up their side, but then, it wouldn't matter since Jon has already turned down an explicit offer for Winterfell. I think its pretty clear where his loyalties lie.

 

[Boaz]

Cul, Thou wast ever an obstiante heretic in the despite of beauty. You seriously think that Eddard's thoughts regarding Jon and Lyanna are the story and not mere obfuscation? This would be the most scarlet of all the fish Martin has thrown our way. Hmmmm.

 

[Brian G Turner]

Oh, agreed - Jon reads as being very much groomed for a huge role in the overall story.

It's very telling indeed that he and Daenerys are the last of their bloodline - and the rightful heirs of Westeros after Robert's insurgency. And remember, the Targaryens did have a tradition of marrying brother and sister...so half isn't going to be so much of a big deal. A logical way to heal the rift already destroying the kingdoms.

Unless I've mis-read?

 

[Boaz]

Speculation Alert!!!

I would post a Spoiler Alert, but the last line in this post has no basis in fact... yet.

Brian, Jon is not Dany's brother... he's her nephew.

Tyrion is Dany's brother.

 

[Culhwch]

Actually they wouldn't be half siblings, they'd be aunt and nephew, Dany being Rhaegar's sister. If Jon wasn't Eddard's son, which he totes is.

EDIT: Beaten to the punch...

 

[Boaz]

Fast fingers.