The Candle that doesn't flicker...

[xLORDSNOWx]

I'm sure this has been beaten to death, resurected by Thoros and beaten to death again, but.....

the candle flame (obsidian/dragon glass) that doesnt flicker and enhances everything around it. Seeing/Talking to people half a world apart and showing up in peoples dreams is a very good thing to have in a war. The Alchemist/Pate has the key to every door at the Citadel. What are the plans of the Faceless Men? They're also expecting payment from The Lannisters correct? (in which Cersie blew off)

 

[chairface]

Hmm, the Lannisters owe the Faceless Men money? Do they have something to do with the Bank of Braavos, or am I forgetting something?

 

[the smiling weirwood]

The Crown owes money to the Iron Bank, as well as to most everyone else.

 

[The Imp]

When Eddard first got to King's Landing there was a decree from Robert that a tourney would take place in his honor. The total cost of that tourney would be around 100k gold stags. Pycelle asked "can the treasury can bear the expense?" It then comes out that The Crown is more than 6 million stags in debt, about half of which is owed to the Iron Bank of Bravos, Lord Tyrell, several Tyroshi trading cartels and The Faith. The other half was owed to the Lannisters (Lord Tywin).

The point is, The Lannisters aren't hurting for money. If Tywin could float the crown 3 million stags, the Lannister's personal waelth was probably many times that.

The real problem is that Lannisters do NOT always pay their debts, contrary to what Tytrion and Jaime like to always say.

 

[Boaz]

Lannisters seem to interpret that particular phrase in a social, spiritual, and personal sense regarding their honor rather than in a strict financial sense... of course, they let everyone else believe it means that the Lannisters are fiscally responsible instead of the vindictive mobsters they are in reality.

Now regarding the Faceless Men, I don't remember the Iron Throne owing money to the Faceless Men. Of course, I cannot imagine anyone owing them money. I firmly believe they'd require cash up front before they even attempted a job.

As for the Obsidian Candle... I assume that it is now lit because of a return of the potency of magic due to a return of dragons. The Pyromancers noted the increased efficacy of their spells after (unbeknownst to them) Dany birthed her dragons.

I don't know that the dragonglass (obsidian) weapons of the Night's Watch will begin to light up also. But mayhaps this is a clue as to what the real sword of Azor Ahai is... Mayhaps his fiery sword was actually obsidian, a known bane of Others. If that is true, then mayhaps it can be used against The Others.

 

[xLORDSNOWx]

When Eddard first got to King's Landing there was a decree from Robert that a tourney would take place in his honor. The total cost of that tourney would be around 100k gold stags. Pycelle asked "can the treasury can bear the expense?" It then comes out that The Crown is more than 6 million stags in debt, about half of which is owed to the Iron Bank of Bravos, Lord Tyrell, several Tyroshi trading cartels and The Faith. The other half was owed to the Lannisters (Lord Tywin).

Thanks for the clarification, i couldnt remember the details on the debt.

 

[xLORDSNOWx]

Lannisters seem to interpret that particular phrase in a social, spiritual, and personal sense regarding their honor rather than in a strict financial sense... of course, they let everyone else believe it means that the Lannisters are fiscally responsible instead of the vindictive mobsters they are in reality.

This is how i interpreted this as well. It's the cynical way they say it, like you will get what i feel like paying you when i feel like it...lol

Now regarding the Faceless Men, I don't remember the Iron Throne owing money to the Faceless Men. Of course, I cannot imagine anyone owing them money. I firmly believe they'd require cash up front before they even attempted a job.

Yeah, Cersie was blowing off the Braavosi that came to collect. She had him waiting and ultimately, just ignored him. She's ignorant to the fact that the Faceless Men are not someone who you would want to go to war with. Imagine if Arya pulled an Alchemist/Pate exchange on Tommen to get close to Cersie and kill her. That would be cool, but shouldnt she be dying by the hands of her brother as the old Maigie predicted (or was that what happened when Jaimie balled up the letter she sent)

As for the Obsidian Candle... I assume that it is now lit because of a return of the potency of magic due to a return of dragons. The Pyromancers noted the increased efficacy of their spells after (unbeknownst to them) Dany birthed her dragons.

I don't know that the dragonglass (obsidian) weapons of the Night's Watch will begin to light up also. But mayhaps this is a clue as to what the real sword of Azor Ahai is... Mayhaps his fiery sword was actually obsidian, a known bane of Others. If that is true, then mayhaps it can be used against The Others.

Wow! That is a really good theory. It's obvious Stannis' flaming sword is a fraud, but who's going to wake up with a flaming sword in their scabboth, like WTF!, i'm the chosen one?

 

[chairface]

Yeah, Cersie was blowing off the Braavosi that came to collect. She had him waiting and ultimately, just ignored him. She's ignorant to the fact that the Faceless Men are not someone who you would want to go to war with. Imagine if Arya pulled an Alchemist/Pate exchange on Tommen to get close to Cersie and kill her. That would be cool, but shouldnt she be dying by the hands of her brother as the old Maigie predicted (or was that what happened when Jaimie balled up the letter she sent)

I'm pretty sure you're conflating two separate entities here. The Iron Bank and the Faceless Men are two separate parties, though they are both stationed in Braavos. Now, the Iron Bank could hire a Faceless Man, but I don't believe the Faceless Men have any reason to go after the Lannisters of their own accord.

 

[xLORDSNOWx]

I'm pretty sure you're conflating two separate entities here. The Iron Bank and the Faceless Men are two separate parties, though they are both stationed in Braavos. Now, the Iron Bank could hire a Faceless Man, but I don't believe the Faceless Men have any reason to go after the Lannisters of their own accord.

Gotcha! Now was it a Faceless Man who was waiting on Cersie, or just a plain ole Braavosi?

It's kinda like "The Federal Reserve" hiring "Blackwater" to collect their payments! Or do they already do that....lol

 

[Ursa major]

As for the Obsidian Candle... I assume that it is now lit because of a return of the potency of magic due to a return of dragons. The Pyromancers noted the increased efficacy of their spells after (unbeknownst to them) Dany birthed her dragons.

This is a big question for me:

• Was it the rebirth of the dragons that has led to the increase in potency of magic; or
• Were the dragons only able to be hatched because of the increase in potency of magic?

I rather favour the latter explanation, at least in part because I believe (unless told otherwise) that AGoT's Prologue happens before most (or all) of Dany's chapters.

* Expects plenty of examples of the much earlier activities of the Others (i.e. their magic was always potent enough for them) well before anything else has happened. *

 

[chairface]

Now was it a Faceless Man who was waiting on Cersie, or just a plain ole Braavosi?

I'm pretty sure that was a representative of the Iron Bank, and not a Faceless Man.

 

[Culhwch]

This is a big question for me:

• Was it the rebirth of the dragons that has led to the increase in potency of magic; or
• Were the dragons only able to be hatched because of the increase in potency of magic?

I rather favour the latter explanation, at least in part because I believe (unless told otherwise) that AGoT's Prologue happens before most (or all) of Dany's chapters.

* Expects plenty of examples of the much earlier activities of the Others (i.e. their magic was always potent enough for them) well before anything else has happened. *

I imagine that's a mystery that will go unsolved. My money is on the latter, though. Can't explain why. Maybe magic is like the seasons, it ebbs and it flows of its own accord.

 

[the smiling weirwood]

Gotcha! Now was it a Faceless Man who was waiting on Cersie, or just a plain ole Braavosi?

It's kinda like "The Federal Reserve" hiring "Blackwater" to collect their payments! Or do they already do that....lol

Yeah, not everyone is a Faceless Man. Some people are just regular people.

 

[The Imp]

Faceless Men are amazingly expensive, one of them costing what it would take to hire an army of sellswords. It would likely be cost prohibitive to send a FM after a debt, and in all liklihood unproductive as their skill is in "fingerprintless assasination" if i can coin that phrase. They're the guys that clean up AFTER the enforcers come to threaten and break legs.

 

[Winters_Sorrow]

I hadn't really considered Lightbringer as an obsidian sword Boaz, so thanks for that. It's certainly feasible. It does make a mockery of the whole mythology surrounding it's making though, doesn't it?

I suppose it's a better story than "Well I was kind of running through this quarry being chased by an Other when I tripped over a black rock and threw it at him in desperation. Imagine my surprise when it melted after smacking him in the face. So I thought, hey this black rock is a buit flaky, I'm sure I can fashion a weapon out of it, call myself a Prince after saving everyone and make a fortune in merchandising!"

I also like the theory that the magic returned by itself Ursa. Seems neater somehow. Otherwise surely the "Tragedy at Summerhall" would have worked. Seems the real tragedy was that no-one could read a calendar properly and got their sums wrong by about 50 years...

 

[southron sword]

This is a big question for me:

• Was it the rebirth of the dragons that has led to the increase in potency of magic; or
• Were the dragons only able to be hatched because of the increase in potency of magic?

I rather favour the latter explanation, at least in part because I believe (unless told otherwise) that AGoT's Prologue happens before most (or all) of Dany's chapters.

* Expects plenty of examples of the much earlier activities of the Others (i.e. their magic was always potent enough for them) well before anything else has happened. *

Its like the chicken and the egg isnt it. Ive wondered what came first. Im an egg man, so that means the Dragons brought the magic. But obviously magics reach is pretty long, to cover Dany in the East and all the way up the top of Westeros with the Others.

P.S. Whenever I'm watching tv and I see a shadowy figure, I immediately think its an Other. (Signs your obsessed with ASOIF. New thread? )

 

[Ursa major]

LOL (Better not look at the Blue Screen of Death - that'll be a very close up view of an Other's eye looking at you from the Other eek side of the screen.)


As to you previous point, I'm an egg man (i.e. the egg arrived before the adult chicken) when it comes to genetics, but not in this case. But I refuse to call myself chicken, let alone a chicken man.

I hope to see this resolved, at least to some extent, as we gradually discover what is going on. But Cul may be correct. One consequence of a strongly POV-focused style is that we rarely see the big picture. It's as if we get to share the thoughts of all those blind folk in that tale from India who thought that an elephant was, depending on which part they touched: a pillar; a rope; a tree branch; a hand fan; a wall; and a solid pipe.

I'm hoping that we will at least glance the whole elephant once in ASoIaF. How it will be done, and through whose (singular or plural) eyes, goodness only knows; but I hope GRRM does.




EEEEEK! Your avatar's an Other's Eye!

 

[southron sword]

But I refuse to call myself chicken, let alone a chicken man.

Good call. I knew a Chicken Man once. You dont want to be associated with the likes of him!

 

[the smiling weirwood]

Well, I think that dragons caused magic to come back.

But remember, its not as if all magic vanished, it just got much harder to do, and had to be drawn from strange sources, like the shadow-binders of Asshai and the maegi.

Back to my point, I'm pretty sure the maesters poisoned the Targaryen dragons to prevent the continuance of magic, since they are implied to have an ultimate agenda to create a world in which their brand of knowledge reigns supreme and magic has no place. Oh, and they probably use the candle as a test to see if any students are magically talented, and then kill them if they are.

I think Dany was able to hatch her eggs because of the maegi's spell-casting. The deaths of Drogo, her unborn son, and the horse became the lives needed to wake the dragons, and if that wasn't good enough, she may have sacrificed her fecundity as well. So its not quite as simple as lighting a big fire and waiting for them to hatch.

 

[chairface]

I'm with Woody on this one. The implication that the maesters poisoned the dragons, plus the coincident timing of the dragons birth and the increasing effectiveness of the wildfire spells both point to this conclusion, in my mind. Plus, I just always assumed this was the reason without thinking about it, and if there's one thing I don't do, it's challenge my own assumptions.

That last part was a joke, just to be clear.

Also, I always thought that it was the deaths of Drogo, Rhaego, and Mirri Maz Dur that paid the price needed to hatch the dragons. Though, I suppose there was so much death at around that time that it's hard to be sure.