Discussing the Writing Challenges -- November and December 2010

[sloweye]

What i mean is that i almost definitely wouldn't have picked up a vote on the 'one vote' system, and theres always going to be a question burning at the back of your mind with the three votes. there were two this month that i would have had to put aside if i didn't have the extra votes to chuck around. i can see the pro's and con's of both systems, but i like the one vote i think.

 

[paranoid marvin]

What i mean is that i almost definitely wouldn't have picked up a vote on the 'one vote' system, and theres always going to be a question burning at the back of your mind with the three votes. there were two this month that i would have had to put aside if i didn't have the extra votes to chuck around. i can see the pro's and con's of both systems, but i like the one vote i think.

Which is better : an entry that everyone likes but no-one likes best - would almost certainly win under the 3 vote system but lose under the 1

or an entry that only a handful like - but which all of them thought the best - so would lose under the 3 vote system but probably win under the 1.


I'm happy either way - why dont we split it down the middle and go for 2?

 

[The Judge]

Speaking as someone who has racked up a total of quite possibly less then three votes over every month that I've entered...

Ahem. Until this last month, you had 4 votes in 4 outings, so don't do yourself down. (And if there'd be a vote for incomprehensibility factor this month, you'd have won it, no question!! )

Thus, those who crave recognition push themselves towards excellency in the hope that they have their moment in the spotlight.

Spotlights? There were spotlights??

 

[Ursa major]

If there were, they were probably obtained from the Ac ... er ... Acme Corporation**....









** - As (not quite) recommended by Wile E. Coyote.

 

[No One]

Reasonabilistically.... 3 pts. for 1st, 2 for 2nd, one for third.
Much more work for the Mods, so might not fly.

I was thinking the same, as someone made the point that three votes doesn't indicate a clear favourite.

But besides more work for the mods, it would inevitably lead to some kind of running league table. Then we'd have become the first people to ever turn writing into a sport. Hmm... *pauses thoughtfully* ...

Three votes was definitely a nice bonus (especially as I really struggled to pick an outright winner this month!) but maybe the single vote should stay.

 

[TheDustyZebra]

But besides more work for the mods, it would inevitably lead to some kind of running league table. Then we'd have become the first people to ever turn writing into a sport. Hmm... *pauses thoughtfully* ...

Aha! We could do a ten-point system for ranking each story, then drop the highest and lowest scores from each round.... I'm thinking Chrispy would have a definite advantage, with the spreadsheet already set up.

Three votes was definitely a nice bonus (especially as I really struggled to pick an outright winner this month!) but maybe the single vote should stay.

I begin to suspect that this was all a plot on the part of the moderators, to show us what happens when we get what we asked for.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

And as anyone who has visited the tie-breaker poll just before reading this will know, the poll is closed and we have a winner.

Congratulations to both our finalists, and particularly to:
StormFeather

who, I hope, will already be thinking about January's theme.

 

[Hilarious Joke]

Nice work StormFeather!

 

[No One]

Indeedio. Congratulations to Stormfeather, commiserations to Hoops (you must be so sad with your gazillion votes ).

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

I begin to suspect that this was all a plot on the part of the moderators, to show us what happens when we get what we asked for.

Not at all. We were simply looking for something special to do for the holiday season. It was between giving everyone more words or more votes.

Eventually it did occur to us that it could also serve as a test to see how a three vote system worked out. But the idea of more votes just for December came up and was discussed at some length first.

I must say, it didn't work out the way that I thought it would. I really believed that there would be a larger point spread between first place and everyone else, even if there was a tie. Of course you can't judge by just one month, but even I'm less enthusiastic about three votes every month than I was.

However, the situation remains that the winning story often wins by a single vote, or maybe two, and does this in months when the number of votes does not even equal the number of stories. I think that is too close for comfort, especially as the story that comes from behind to tie at the last minute frequently wins hands-down in a tie-breaker.

It's been said (I don't remember by who) that when everyone only has one vote to cast the winning story has to be something really special. But the way it's been working in months when we don't have a tie, the winning story only needs to be something that a handful of people think is really special. (It may be that every month everyone thinks that the winning story is special, but the point remains that this doesn't have to be the case for someone to win. A story could be special to only five or six people while no one else put it anywhere near the top of their list, and it would still win.)

When we have a tie it's different. There we've usually had a decisive victory. But suppose that same story had not tied in the initial voting? If one person forgot to vote or was held up in traffic after making a late decision, so that there was not a tie, the story that more than half the voters eventually voted for would have lost. As I said, at least for me, these one or two vote victories seem too close for comfort.

The ideal situation would be to get more voters, not just everyone who submits a story, but other Chronicles members as well. If we had a hundred people voting (not just a hundred or so votes between 30 or 40 people), we might see our winning stories regularly win by several votes instead of just one or two. But we've tried everything we can think of to drum up interest elsewhere in the forum, and it's not been working. If anyone has any ideas about something that might work, please share them.

(Not a voting system with weighted votes. That would be too hard for the mods.)

 

[Parson]

(Not a voting system with weighted votes. That would be too hard for the mods.)

I'm surprised that there isn't some polling site which would do this for us with no more work than what is already done. Doesn't PollMonkey or Zomerang do something like this?

I am fine with one vote, don't count me as trying to push work on the Mods. T.E. you will notice that it went about like I predicted months ago. The voting remained very close. I was surprised that there were not more stories without votes, when there were so few it made for a bit more of a downer.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

I was surprised that there were not more stories without votes, when there were so few it made for a bit more of a downer.

Well, yes, for one month.

But if there were more votes being cast every month (either because we each had more votes to cast or because there were more voters) some of those people would have a better chance of getting votes the next month, or the month after that. I may be wrong, but it seems to me that the people who had no votes this month were all people who had received votes in previous months. So perhaps it wasn't as discouraging as all that.

I'm surprised that there isn't some polling site which would do this for us with no more work than what is already done. Doesn't PollMonkey or Zomerang do something like this?

I don't know, but using one of those sites would probably require someone here to put out some money -- and Culhwch already has an account at Polldaddy because of the Photo Challenge.

 

[TheDustyZebra]

Originally Posted by TheDustyZebra
I begin to suspect that this was all a plot on the part of the moderators, to show us what happens when we get what we asked for.

Not at all. We were simply looking for something special to do for the holiday season. It was between giving everyone more words or more votes.

I really do try not to use emoticons much around here, because I gather that there is some serious dislike of them running around, but this is one of those instances where a good would have helped immensely. Teresa, I was (as I almost always am) kidding. So:

 

[Culhwch]

I'm surprised that there isn't some polling site which would do this for us with no more work than what is already done. Doesn't PollMonkey or Zomerang do something like this?

PollMonkey may do, but they aren't accepting new accounts right now. I tried Zoomerang, but it's rather confusing - I don't think it's possible to have a ranked poll/survey of the type which is being suggested here. If anyone does know how do to so in Zoomerang or knows of another tool we could use, I'm all ears...

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

I've just had a deco (showing my age again) at Poll-daddy and apparently weighted matrix polls are available.:- Likert matrix type???

However, I couldn't see a way of restricting the number of votes as it seems with that type of survey you are expected to weight every question: or in our case story. Even if it was possible it would be asking a lot from Culhwch (who in my opinion deserves a medal for his superb efforts) to set up every month.

By the way Culhwch I've just noticed your :-

"Keep Moving Forward!"

Is it at all possible we have a diametrically opposed outlook .

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

It would be asking a lot of voters to figure out their relative rankings for so many stories!

TDZ, I knew your remark was made in a light-hearted way (although that didn't necessarily mean that you didn't wonder), but other people seemed to suspect that we had ulterior motives, so I wanted to explain that the purpose we had when we first discussed three votes in December was ... three votes in December.

Which doesn't mean that we aren't thinking about other options. When we first set up the present voting system, we didn't know how it would play out. We didn't know that we would have nine months of 40+ stories a month. As I pointed out when I brought up the question of what to do about February, we didn't know that the Challenge would last more than a few months. And in the beginning we considered a lot of different ways of handling the voting, and we still don't know how any of those would have worked out over time.

But there are no plans now to change anything. Just discussion. After all, the end of the calendar year is traditionally a time for evaluating the year just past, and for thinking ahead to the year soon to be. How often does any of that result in actual change?


As for emoticons, I can think of very of our few our members who don't like them and use them. Two of those people happen to be moderating this thread ... but that shouldn't influence your use of them. I never even take them into consideration, as a matter of fact. Some people just strew them about in everything they write, so I don't actually trust emoticons to reveal anything about somebody else's state of mind, and I skip right over them.

 

[Karn Maeshalanadae]

As for emoticons, I can think of very of our few our members who don't like them and use them. Two of those people happen to be moderating this thread ... but that shouldn't influence your use of them. I never even take them into consideration, as a matter of fact. Some people just strew them about in everything they write, so I don't actually trust emoticons to reveal anything about somebody else's state of mind, and I skip right over them.

Actually, TE, I for one tend to have to use them; otherwise my rather heavy, warped sense of humor tends to be misconstrued as a serious issue. And we don't want that, do we, Lady Moderator?

 

[alchemist]

Many congratulations to StormFeather, and to Hoopy.

I'm happy with one vote each, even though I'm pretty sure I benefited from the new system (in actual numbers, and ranking).

Have we considered putting a sticky on the forum homepage, encouraging others to vote? Or even, at the risk of annoying people, sending a blanket PM?

 

[Boneman]

Congratulations to Stormfeather and HoopyFrood for continuing the fine tradition (started by Mouse and m'self) of tying in 1st place, for the December challenge. It's a shame that one had to lose, but double congrats to Stormfeather and double commiserations to Hoopy, who I'm certain will not be unhappy to have got to 1st place, in the first place!

ps: Almost forgot! (how could I?) I loved having three votes, but fully accept that wiser heads may prevail on this issue. Having 3 votes as a Christmas treat (okay... a holiday treat, and end-of-year treat, a December treat for those not celebrating Xmas) is somehting to look forard ro nest year!

Happy New Year!!

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

Congratulations to Stormfeather and HoopyFrood for continuing the fine tradition (started by Mouse and m'self) of tying in 1st place, for the December challenge. It's a shame that one had to lose, but double congrats to Stormfeather and double commiserations to Hoopy, who I'm certain will not be unhappy to have got to 1st place, in the first place!

ps: Almost forgot! (how could I?) I loved having three votes, but fully accept that wiser heads may prevail on this issue. Having 3 votes as a Christmas treat (okay... a holiday treat, and end-of-year treat, a December treat for those not celebrating Xmas) is somehting to look forard ro nest year!

Happy New Year!!

Maybe we should end the voting earlier too! You know, to say the 21st before the festive season has had chance to fully take effect.