Discussing the Writing Challenges -- November and December 2010

[ctg]

re: Discussing the Writing Challenges -- July & August

Is there a possibility for a two fifty, or even a five hundred word challenge that would be related to the seventy five word stories. The reason why I'm asking is because even though I can compete in the original challenge, I find that it's easier and more important to write a one page story. It is more important than a pitch-length because we can use that one page perfectly to practice the synopsis writing. Allowed critique and it could show us the pitfalls in a pager length. Therefore benefiting us even more than writing pitches.

Well, at least to us who write novels.No hard feelings for the short story people.


Also I am already hearing that some of you're going to argue that the pitch is more important in our profession than a synopsis.

I agree, but in this climate that we still have the story as a story, and where we can just read the sample pages to know if the story interest us or not.

You know what I'm sayin', don't you?

 

[HareBrain]

re: Discussing the Writing Challenges -- July & August

I think the 75-word form is useful in developing synopsis-writing skills. I was having a go at a synopsis just this morning, and I'm sure I made a better job of it through having worked on several very short stories.

(I'm not arguing against a longer challenge as such, though I think the amount of reading/digesting might prove a problem in getting votes.)

 

[Sephiroth]

re: Discussing the Writing Challenges -- July & August

IMO, this challenge is just about writing stories. It's not intended to be practice for writing pitches or synopses -- these are different skills (although the requirement to be concise is a common factor, and developing this ability may help). The challenge is just an exercise in writing (very) short fiction.

If individuals find that entering the challenge helps them write pitches or synopses, that is a positive outcome, but I don't think it should be seen as the point of the exercise.

Although I initially argued for a higher word limit, I'm not at all convinced it's a good idea, now. I think the level of participation we've enjoyed thus far has been due, in large part, to the ease with which people can get involved. Even if we're busy, most of us can find the time required to knock up a 75-word story.

It may be possible to run two challenges concurrently, but this would create a lot more work for the mods (Cul and Teresa) who administer this place, so they would have the final say on that. I think it's inevitable that a 500-word challenge would have fewer entrants. I wonder if having both might spread our resources too thinly.

First of all, I would like to see if we can increase the level of participation in the current contest -- both in terms of the number of entrants, and, especially, the number of non-entrants who read the stories and vote for their favourites.

I think there are very good reasons for not allowing critiques in the contest. The Critiques forum exists for that. The contest is primarily a fun exercise, and not a vehicle for picking apart each other's work. Such an atmosphere might intimidate new entrants (as well as many regulars), and would detract from the spirit of the competition. The stories we enter are supposed to be judged as 'finished articles', and as such, are held to be beyond the scope of the critiques process (in much the same way as a published work would be).

 

[Parson]

re: Discussing the Writing Challenges -- July & August

IMO, this challenge is just about writing stories. It's not intended to be practice for writing pitches or synopses -- these are different skills (although the requirement to be concise is a common factor, and developing this ability may help). The challenge is just an exercise in writing (very) short fiction.

If individuals find that entering the challenge helps them write pitches or synopses, that is a positive outcome, but I don't think it should be seen as the point of the exercise.

Although I initially argued for a higher word limit, I'm not at all convinced it's a good idea, now. I think the level of participation we've enjoyed thus far has been due, in large part, to the ease with which people can get involved. Even if we're busy, most of us can find the time required to knock up a 75-word story.

It may be possible to run two challenges concurrently, but this would create a lot more work for the mods (Cul and Teresa) who administer this place, so they would have the final say on that. I think it's inevitable that a 500-word challenge would have fewer entrants. I wonder if having both might spread our resources too thinly.

First of all, I would like to see if we can increase the level of participation in the current contest -- both in terms of the number of entrants, and, especially, the number of non-entrants who read the stories and vote for their favourites.

I think there are very good reasons for not allowing critiques in the contest. The Critiques forum exists for that. The contest is primarily a fun exercise, and not a vehicle for picking apart each other's work. Such an atmosphere might intimidate new entrants (as well as many regulars), and would detract from the spirit of the competition. The stories we enter are supposed to be judged as 'finished articles', and as such, are held to be beyond the scope of the critiques process (in much the same way as a published work would be).

Seph, Well said. I couldn't agree more. In my profession I write (a little) but have had my preaching critiqued often. A critique is good for development but can be intimidating for sure. I know of some professionals who despise evaluations because they can't stand to be as they put it "second guessed."

Storm Feather --- What is a blue bottom fly?

 

[Erin99]

re: Discussing the Writing Challenges -- July & August

Hello, CTG! It's fantastic that someone new is interested in the challenge.

But before you ask to change rules and terms, try out the challenge. I, along with Seph, was one of those initially wanting a larger word count. I'm glad we stuck to 75, now. Learning to get the most out of your prose is no bad skill, and believe me, you'll soon get into it. And these challenges have even helped me with my novel writing: I'm typing away, then re-look over my sentences, and BANG! straight away I can see words that can be reduced into one, or a stronger synonym, or a needless word. This skill's far more useful than writing a 500-word challenge entry and not stopping to consider every word choice (because, yes, I did have that bad habit before I began these challenges, especially in longer work where I felt I didn't need to adhere to it as strictly... How wrong was!)

And in no way are these challenges "pitches". They may be pitch-length, but they're not pitches. Writing pitches well is another skill set altogether! These are short stories - stories that have a beginning, middle, and end, and possibly even a moral or hidden depth.

So please, give it a go and see how you fare. It may take you a couple of challenges to get into it like I did, or you may surprise yourself and do well from the off. But it's definitely worth a go.

 

[Erin99]

re: Discussing the Writing Challenges -- July & August

Sorry to double post, but we have another new writer posting in the challenge thread! Hello, Duchess! I remember you from.... I think it was Critiques, years ago. Nice to see you've entered!

 

[The Judge]

re: Discussing the Writing Challenges -- July & August

Storm Feather --- What is a blue bottom fly?

A blue-bottle, Parson, a kind of blow-fly with a bright blue body. To rush around like a blue-arsed fly means to, well, rush around a lot, particularly being busy.

 

[Ursa major]

re: Discussing the Writing Challenges -- July & August

They're not pitches, they're a way of encouraging us to pitch in....




(And as we're talking about sports fields rolleyes, the challenge is a game of two halves: posting your entry and voting for the one you consider to be the best.)

 

[mosaix]

re: Discussing the Writing Challenges -- July & August

Re the 75 words.

I have been a member of the critters web site for a couple of years now and the single most important thing I have learnt from being critiqued by professional authors is that less is more.

The less you describe a scene the more the reader imagines it and once that happens the reader invests something of themselves in the story and becomes more committed to it.

This is a difficult technique to acquire but I have found the 75 word challenge an excellent way of practising it. I write the story in full, with no regards to the length, writing exactly what I want to say and omitting nothing. Then I go back and chop every word that I can without altering the meaning, then I go through again and try and find two words where one will do instead, again without altering the meaning, etc., etc.

In last month's challenge I started off describing a cell containing the two characters to give a feeling of atmosphere. I realised that the mention of 'interrogator' and 'prisoner' would imply a cell anyway and, as I've learnt from critters, omitting any description of the cell allows the reader to supply their own and the reader's imagination of a cell will be better than I can describe for them - because each reader's imagination will be different.

So the whole description went - about twenty words - and it probably improved the piece.

I strongly believe this 75 word challenge is a good exercise in improving writing technique.

 

[HoopyFrood]

re: Discussing the Writing Challenges -- July & August

Posted.

I honestly don't have a thing about bears (well, actually, maybe I do, going by the last two challenges!) The song just popped into my head for some unknown reason.

 

[Moonbat]

re: Discussing the Writing Challenges -- July & August

Brilliant Hoopy, a definite contender.

 

[Ursa major]

re: Discussing the Writing Challenges -- July & August

And you resisted the almost inevitable comment on the situation, Hoopy, which is good.

 

[Moonbat]

re: Discussing the Writing Challenges -- July & August

Ok, I have posted to this month's comp.
I hope I haven't broken any rules with my link
If I have I apologise and accept disqualification

 

[Parson]

re: Discussing the Writing Challenges -- July & August

I doubt being original leads to disqualification. I don't see the link as a continuation of the story. I say; "Good Job!"

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

re: Discussing the Writing Challenges -- July & August

....

Although I initially argued for a higher word limit, I'm not at all convinced it's a good idea, now. I think the level of participation we've enjoyed thus far has been due, in large part, to the ease with which people can get involved. Even if we're busy, most of us can find the time required to knock up a 75-word story.

....

Aggreed, the problem with longer entries is they also take longer to read and judge. It's bad enough reading 40*75 word entries if that were extended to 40*500 then it would be a nightmare

 

[Sephiroth]

re: Discussing the Writing Challenges -- July & August

That is a good point. Cul mentioned that both he and I had to read last month's entries at the very end, because we hadn't had a chance to keep up with them as they were submitted. I said earlier that I found this quite tough, because I only had two days to read them all several times, draw up my shortlist, deliberate, read the contenders some more, etc.. And it wasn't as if I didn't have other things to do.

I can't imagine I'd have been able to do that with forty 500-word stories. Judging those would be a monumental task.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

re: Discussing the Writing Challenges -- July & August

Actually, ctg has been entering the Challenge in previous months, Leisha -- an excellent one in "Escape" as a matter of fact.

Moonbat, the urge to click on your link was almost overwhelming, thereby proving your point. I did control myself, but only just.

Mouse, your entries are never bad. I suspect you are having a crisis of confidence because you didn't get as many votes as usual last month. I'm sure it wasn't the quality (which was very high).

The less you describe a scene the more the reader imagines it and once that happens the reader invests something of themselves in the story and becomes more committed to it.

Now there is a rule that can be taken way too far. The absolute least you can describe a scene is not to describe it at all and leave everything to the reader's imagination. The author has to do some of the work! And if they really are encouraging writers to adopt the same terse, laconic style, over there, instead of each developing his or her own style (whether it be lean or wordy) to its highest potential, then I think something is wrong.

But your story wasn't about the cell, and I think you made the right choice and concentrated on what was important in that particular story.

 

[Erin99]

re: Discussing the Writing Challenges -- July & August

Oh, darn memory! Lately it's been worse than ever. I type a sentence and then one or more words aren't even the ones I typed! It's really bugging me, since I'm back posting more at the Chrons and also trying to write my novel. I've really not been the most alert lately. At least Seph lets me know if I've made an idiot of myself, and I can correct it. :S

I probably loved ctg's past entries, too.

And yaaay! I said the same thing to Seph, about how you shouldn't describe the least possible in a scene. Glad to see someone else (Teresa) agrees. I'm rather heavy-handed with description, but I like to think it's relevant description. After all, if you read "The twisted black tower speared the storm clouds looming overhead", no two people are going to picture the same scene.

 

[HareBrain]

re: Discussing the Writing Challenges -- July & August

Leisha, if you're not already familiar with it, you might be interested in this passage from Tolkien's essay "On Fairy Stories":

"However good in themselves, illustrations do little good to fairy-stories. The radical distinction between all art (including drama) that offers a visible presentation and true literature is that it imposes one visible form. Literature works from mind to mind and is thus more progenitive. It is at once more universal and more poignantly particular. If it speaks of bread or wine or stone or tree, it appeals to the whole of these things, to their ideas; yet each hearer will give them a peculiar personal embodiment in his imagination. Should the story say ‘he ate bread’, the dramatic producer or painter can only show ‘a piece of bread’ according to his taste and fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own. If a story says ‘he climbed a hill and saw a river in the valley below’, the illustrator may catch, nor nearly catch, his own vision of such a scene; but every hearer of the words will have his own picture, and it will be made out of all the hills and rivers and dales he has ever seen, but especially out of The Hill, The River, The Valley which were for him the first embodiment of the word."

Not sure myself about the "first embodiment" bit, but the overall point is a good one: the ideal description is just specific enough to let the reader conjure his own particular vivid image, and not so much that it stifles it.

 

[StormFeather]

re: Discussing the Writing Challenges -- July & August

Storm Feather --- What is a blue bottom fly?

A blue-bottle, Parson, a kind of blow-fly with a bright blue body. To rush around like a blue-arsed fly means to, well, rush around a lot, particularly being busy.

Thank you Judge for answering this succinctly!

Parson, I was trying to keep to a slightly more moderate tone!

HB - thanks for that excerpt - I've not read that before and it's given me some food for thought.