Surface Detail (Culture)
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- iain m banks
Re: Surface Detail
I have read the use of weapons.
And having just picked it up, I have seen the name Z** so I realise now the connection. I can't for the life of me remember what happens in TUOW so I may read it again (after the algebraist)
Thanks redmeat
I have read the use of weapons.
And having just picked it up, I have seen the name Z** so I realise now the connection. I can't for the life of me remember what happens in TUOW so I may read it again (after the algebraist)
Thanks redmeat
Re: Surface Detail
Largely on the basis of the enthusiasm displayed in this thread, I've gone and bought the hardback, even though I've never read a culture novel before. If I don't enjoy it, I shall hold Moonbat, as the thread-starter, responsible. The others I shall allow to go free.
Largely on the basis of the enthusiasm displayed in this thread, I've gone and bought the hardback, even though I've never read a culture novel before. If I don't enjoy it, I shall hold Moonbat, as the thread-starter, responsible. The others I shall allow to go free.
The Procrastinator
1 Candlepower Brain
Re: Surface Detail
Just ordered it. I didn't even know it was out till I saw this thread, and am very heartened by the responses to it. Love that Culture!
Just ordered it. I didn't even know it was out till I saw this thread, and am very heartened by the responses to it. Love that Culture!
miilacro
ill prepared
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2010
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Re: Surface Detail
Although I don't think this one is the strongest of the Culture novels, it does maintain the fabulous quality of the series. If you haven't gone to Hell yet you're going to enjoy Banks tour of one of the nastiest places I've ever seen described and it made no difference it wasn't one designed for humans - yes, there are others (shiver).
My favorite parts of ll the Culture novels have always been the interactions between individual people and the almost transcendent AI's, whether ships, or the avatars of same. Demeisen as the avatar of the Abominator Class war ship "Falling Outside Normal Moral Constraints" was truly a delight.
Although I don't think this one is the strongest of the Culture novels, it does maintain the fabulous quality of the series. If you haven't gone to Hell yet you're going to enjoy Banks tour of one of the nastiest places I've ever seen described and it made no difference it wasn't one designed for humans - yes, there are others (shiver).
My favorite parts of ll the Culture novels have always been the interactions between individual people and the almost transcendent AI's, whether ships, or the avatars of same. Demeisen as the avatar of the Abominator Class war ship "Falling Outside Normal Moral Constraints" was truly a delight.
Re: Surface Detail
MOOOOOOOOONNBAAAAAAT!!!!!!!!! (or anyone else)
I'm struggling with it, I have to admit. I'm on about page 220, having been slowly grinding to a halt for the last few days, and the only sections so far I've really enjoyed have been Vateuil(sp?)'s and the very first one. Coincidentally or not, these seem to also be the only sections where anyone actually does anything. Otherwise it's just page after page after page of chattily written backstory, fine in small doses but less engaging en masse. Does the book overcome this (for me) problem, or is it pointless for me to carry on?
MOOOOOOOOONNBAAAAAAT!!!!!!!!! (or anyone else)
I'm struggling with it, I have to admit. I'm on about page 220, having been slowly grinding to a halt for the last few days, and the only sections so far I've really enjoyed have been Vateuil(sp?)'s and the very first one. Coincidentally or not, these seem to also be the only sections where anyone actually does anything. Otherwise it's just page after page after page of chattily written backstory, fine in small doses but less engaging en masse. Does the book overcome this (for me) problem, or is it pointless for me to carry on?
Re: Surface Detail
Sorry, I didn't find this to be a problem, but the pace does increase, albeit a little later on. Surely you have read about the Hell by now, didn't you like that?
There is a bit of backstory to get through, but I'm almost always of the mind to carry on. Sorry HB, there's no accounting for taste.
Sorry, I didn't find this to be a problem, but the pace does increase, albeit a little later on. Surely you have read about the Hell by now, didn't you like that?
There is a bit of backstory to get through, but I'm almost always of the mind to carry on. Sorry HB, there's no accounting for taste.
Re: Surface Detail
Well, I had nothing else to read in the bath the other night and now things seem to be picking up, hurrah!
As for the Hell, it was pretty well done, but nothing one doesn't see walking through Bognor town centre late of a Friday.
Well, I had nothing else to read in the bath the other night and now things seem to be picking up, hurrah!
As for the Hell, it was pretty well done, but nothing one doesn't see walking through Bognor town centre late of a Friday.
gully_foyle
Here kitty kitty kitty!
Re: Surface Detail
Just finished it. Thankyou Mr Banks. This was a marked improvement on Matter and while there were a few moments of wondering "what the virtual hell is going on?" it all tied together at the end. It was a bit hard to figure out who the bad guys were for a while, but I guess that was the point. For me the battles and descriptions of bizarre environments (e.g. the hells) get a bit tiresome; I much prefer the interaction of the characters, humans, aliens, floating suitcases and minds. I liked Lededje's character and Demeisen's punk attitude and their relationship. Veppers was a bit of a pantomime character for me. For some reason, and I hope I don't infect anyone elses imagination with this, but I pictured him as Douglas Reynholm, the head of Reynholm Industries in The IT Crowd (I guess because it's on TV at the moment).
Anyway, the last line was a great treat for The Culture fans. Please don't skip to it.
Just finished it. Thankyou Mr Banks. This was a marked improvement on Matter and while there were a few moments of wondering "what the virtual hell is going on?" it all tied together at the end. It was a bit hard to figure out who the bad guys were for a while, but I guess that was the point. For me the battles and descriptions of bizarre environments (e.g. the hells) get a bit tiresome; I much prefer the interaction of the characters, humans, aliens, floating suitcases and minds. I liked Lededje's character and Demeisen's punk attitude and their relationship. Veppers was a bit of a pantomime character for me. For some reason, and I hope I don't infect anyone elses imagination with this, but I pictured him as Douglas Reynholm, the head of Reynholm Industries in The IT Crowd (I guess because it's on TV at the moment).
Anyway, the last line was a great treat for The Culture fans. Please don't skip to it.
Re: Surface Detail
Ha! I think you might have infected my imagination, but perhaps to its benefit.
Ah. The thing is, I'm struggling again with it, at just over half way through (Chay in a monastery thing that seems to be going on forever) but I've been determined to finish it eventually because people keep talking about the amazing last line. But is it only going to be significant if I've read other Culture books? Coz I avvent.
Ha! I think you might have infected my imagination, but perhaps to its benefit.
Ah. The thing is, I'm struggling again with it, at just over half way through (Chay in a monastery thing that seems to be going on forever) but I've been determined to finish it eventually because people keep talking about the amazing last line. But is it only going to be significant if I've read other Culture books? Coz I avvent.
gully_foyle
Here kitty kitty kitty!
Re: Surface Detail
Yeah. Sorry.
Yeah. Sorry.
Re: Surface Detail
I peeked at the end and I see you're right. Thanks for letting me know. If I'd slogged through something I wasn't really into just for a reputedly killer last line, and was then confronted with something that made no sense to me at all, I think my collection of Ming pottery would have suffered somewhat.
I peeked at the end and I see you're right. Thanks for letting me know. If I'd slogged through something I wasn't really into just for a reputedly killer last line, and was then confronted with something that made no sense to me at all, I think my collection of Ming pottery would have suffered somewhat.
Re: Surface Detail
You would have to send the bill to Moonbat in that case.
Now this intriguing 'last line' is really making me restless! May be I should quit waiting for the PB and get a HC?
You would have to send the bill to Moonbat in that case.
Now this intriguing 'last line' is really making me restless! May be I should quit waiting for the PB and get a HC?
Re: Surface Detail
Just finished reading SD and, for me, couldn't put it down, especially after the first couple hundred pages.
So, yes, loved it. I will agree with the pro-SD crew that Banks lovers and Culture lovers shouldn't hesitate.
Now, a few comments and questions for you all ...
SPOILER ALERT ... MEGA SPOILERS Incoming
First I don't think the last word is that big a deal. It's a little fun treat, that's all. I didn't even remember what it meant and had to look it up. But I read UOW ten+ years ago, so wouldn't really expect to remember this kind of detail.
One thing that really surprised me is that pretty much all the nice characters survived, and the evil one got his due. Is Banks getting soft in his old age? I'm used to him bloodthirstily offing one, two or nearly all the characters I grow to like in his books. Opinions?
Just finished reading SD and, for me, couldn't put it down, especially after the first couple hundred pages.
So, yes, loved it. I will agree with the pro-SD crew that Banks lovers and Culture lovers shouldn't hesitate.
Now, a few comments and questions for you all ...
SPOILER ALERT ... MEGA SPOILERS Incoming
First I don't think the last word is that big a deal. It's a little fun treat, that's all. I didn't even remember what it meant and had to look it up. But I read UOW ten+ years ago, so wouldn't really expect to remember this kind of detail.
One thing that really surprised me is that pretty much all the nice characters survived, and the evil one got his due. Is Banks getting soft in his old age? I'm used to him bloodthirstily offing one, two or nearly all the characters I grow to like in his books. Opinions?
J-WO
Author of 'Pennyblade' and 'Feral Space'
Re: Surface Detail
When I closed the book I spent the next hour bouncing around with delight. The same feeling I get after going to a fantastic gig of some band I love. Sheer entertainment, utter escapism.
Its easily, easily, the best of the post-Look to Windward SF novels, though it does share the problem of too-merciful editing (Its as if no one's willing to say 'look Iain, this bit can easily be dropped', which is odd because he's one of the friendliest, open-minded guys you could hope to meet) but, thankfully, not to the extent of Algebraist or Matter .
In terms of structure and visual imagery we're talking about a master craftsman here. It boggles my mind as to how anyone could construct such a story! I think it'll be story that'll be the dominant driving factor of this period of Banks' writing, rather than then theme and message (which I'd say was the strength of early culture novels). I can't wait for more.
I'll put me neck on the block- SD isn't as good as Player of Games or Use of Weapons, but it beats Excession (by a nose) at its own game.
When I closed the book I spent the next hour bouncing around with delight. The same feeling I get after going to a fantastic gig of some band I love. Sheer entertainment, utter escapism.
Its easily, easily, the best of the post-Look to Windward SF novels, though it does share the problem of too-merciful editing (Its as if no one's willing to say 'look Iain, this bit can easily be dropped', which is odd because he's one of the friendliest, open-minded guys you could hope to meet) but, thankfully, not to the extent of Algebraist or Matter .
In terms of structure and visual imagery we're talking about a master craftsman here. It boggles my mind as to how anyone could construct such a story! I think it'll be story that'll be the dominant driving factor of this period of Banks' writing, rather than then theme and message (which I'd say was the strength of early culture novels). I can't wait for more.
I'll put me neck on the block- SD isn't as good as Player of Games or Use of Weapons, but it beats Excession (by a nose) at its own game.
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