Would you allow your 75 stories to be published in a collection

[No One]

Agreed with UM.

Also. as someone else pointed out it would a tad defeatist to suddenly start editing these stories. Sure, the odd spelling mistake or glaring grammatical oversight, but changing individual words and sentence structure wouldn't be my choice.

 

[alchemist]

Agreed with UM and NO. To get a story into 75 words requires quite a bit of artistic licence. Everyone who gets into the anthology will need to give permission anyway, so they should surely be up for a bit of to and fro with this ethereal editor.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

A few points I would like to make, and please be tolerant with me if I sound curt, as typing is difficult.

1. Despite my efforts Brian has never shown the least interest in the Challenges, so I doubt he would wish any direct connection between such an anthology and the site.

2. You won't get an editor with the sort of name that would lend the anthology the kind of credibility everyone seems to be hoping for in an editor unless you give him/her full editorial control -- including which stories stay and which stories go. You would not get such an editor and be able to set out in advance what he or she may or may not do in the way of editing. Absolutely. Non-negotiable. Whose name goes on the cover? The editor's. Whose reputation is on the line? The editor's. The editor will be protective of both.

3. The editor would not, under any conditions, be me. See reasons above, and consider what it would do to my place in the community if I exercised full editorial control. I already have a reputation as a draconian moderator. Such good will as remains toward me I would like to keep.

4. The anthology will not make money. Anthologies sell well enough to turn a profit because the editor has a name and several of the contributors have big names. As far as I remember, the biggest name contributors you have (to date) are Toby and I. You need two or three names much bigger, with ours tagged on at the end. Do this because you want to do it, not because you expect to make money.

5. Despite what Ursa says, your stories are not now in the public domain. Site rules are clear that you retain copyright to everything posted here, and we have a copyright notice in the first message of each Challenge, so that anyone who comes along and wants to copy the stories cannot plead "I didn't know."

I hope you all understand what I mean and no one is offended, because it really would wear me out to get into a discussion about any of this.

 

[J Riff]

Well, there tis' - as it should be. A real pro editor changes anything and everything he/she wants. Period.
There's probably an editor or two out there somewhere, who would be interested. And thinking of it, it may well be a pleasurable and fairly easy assignment... correcting minor flaws in super-short stories, as opposed to a novel which may have problems at many levels and require vast re-writing.
If it's meant to happen, someone will run into an editor.. preferably a famous well-respected SFF editor who will come on board of their own free will.

 

[TheDustyZebra]

I don't see that we need an editor, in that sense. We don't really want the stories changed around, and we don't want someone coming in and deciding that some stories have to go. At least, that's not what I had in mind when I envisioned this project some time back. (I know, anyone can come in now and say "oh yeah, I thought of this too", and I have no proof that I did, but I did.) I didn't see it as trying to make a bestseller, I just wanted a book with all our stories in it, that we could buy!

Perhaps we could consider having the authors decide if they want any punctuation or obvious (or not) "d'oh" words fixed, and leave it at that? It's really not the same at all if the stories get materially changed or eliminated. And at 75 words, anything but a spelling or punctuation fix is "material". If we had optional explanatory text after each story for any footnotes the author deemed appropriate, those things could be addressed there and would be interesting as well as educational. "I thought later that the word 'xxxx' would have given more of a xxxxx feeling, but it was too late." And such.

 

[Parson]

DZ

Just so. I'm not sure any editing is called for, or even should be done.

I like the idea of a few lines of explanation added IF the author wants too, but I really think that this is just an exercise of considering. If this is going to go, you are going to have to have somebody who is able to and willing to put some time into the ins and outs of getting the book published.

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

Terresa:

The reason for the poll, was to put a toe in the water.

It was obviously was never intended to be legally binding on any responder. However, from the results so far it would seem there is little opposition.

The attraction odd the 'AS IS' (spellings not withstanding) proposition is that there would be less arguing over actual content which would at least get the biggest obstacle out of the way.

I could see that thee would be those that wouldn't wish to be included or even referenced but all they would need to do is not agree to their work being included.

If that included some of the winners then the format might have to change with no reference to monthly winners so as not to highlight their misgivings.

If Brian requires distance, (I can see why he might) it's a shame because Stromfeathers 'explanations on the site' idea was so convenient. That being said, if there were any 'decenter', not referencing the SFF name would make sense as it would prevent 'Joe public' from easily circumventing the point of the decent. (If you get my drift).

As for making money, I would also be amazed if any more than the 100 or so needed by the 'interested parties' would actually be sold but I'm open to the possibilities.

Personally, obvious vanities to the fore, I would love top see my entries in a book. The fact they are included in a collection with other's would be fantastic. Especially as some of those stories are the best collections of 75 words I've ever read. From my point of view that would just be a massive plus. Having said that, some of the stories go completely over my head and some I believe may have been 'rushed' (to be kind)

It should be pointed out to all those aspiring writers that inclusion in such a book may well come back to haunt them. It may well be that a real publisher would not wish to have a "prospect's" work is included in such an anthology.

Which is possibly why, user names would be preferable to at least give some distance.

The difficulties are enormous, even if everyone is keen. Permissions need to be sought and contracts signed dated and witnessed in blood. Money needs to be collected. Commas need to be crossed and T's need to be dotted. However as a starting point it seems it's not a bad beginning.

 

[J Riff]

I' ll disagree just to keep the discussion going.
Who wants any work released that hasn't passed an editor? May as well self-publish, and I bet a few people would balk at that.
Thing is...as Mr. juniour wannabe unpaid 'editor' here..I can see things in every third or fourth story .... one sentence that should be two. Change active to passive. A better word for () .. all the little things an editor would notice, that would make everyone a better writer.
Because haunted is the right word... once it's out there it's gone and it lives forever to shame our descendants if it isn't ticketyboo...
Everyone could reserve the right to deny any changes, then the editor could decide whether or not to turf it...that's how I'd like it...becos we are talking about someone who knows their stuff, who would only improve things in a subtle way. Like the final polish on a Ferrari.
Also...some people in here may well end up being famous writers, someday. TE already is. Personally I would be fascinated to hear what a working editor had to say about the rest of us.

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

J Riff - In the spirit of debate.

I fancy the book might be only a few pages

Although I see all your points, the stories are already out there as is.

The danger the editor would need to stretch the stories to 150 words exists. I can't see them not wanting to add that extra 'and' in preference to a two hour rethink of what s/he the original intended. Not to mention the time to get everyone's agreement. I could see a few toys being thrown out of the pram if a professional got involved.

Plus an editor doesn't come free and at the end of the day it's the contributors that will be paying for this.

Unless we go down the 'self help group', 'committee' method somehow.

 

[J Riff]

Agreed. It is a chance, however, for a bunch of us to join the ranks of the published*... it seems a rhetorical question... do any of us think the pro writers who would make such a volume viable want the rest of us crammed in there unedited?
Thing is that the challenge will run on...eventually there will be enough there to put out a book with a zillion stories in it - which is why Im so interested in this particular thread, it's a short story first...I've never seen a book with that many stories.
There are probably books full of Drabbles or whatever... out there, but this is SciFiFant and that makes it better.
Oh well. It will all sort itself out.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

TEIN, my answers were to those posts that had already mentioned editors, and the book taking off and making money, etc. I felt I should speak up since my name (or initials) had already come into the discussion, and I wasn't even present.

But as you can see there are already different hopes, ambitions, and expectations for such a book, just among the possible contributors who have already weighed in. One hundred possible contributors (and counting) ... I think that will equal a vast number of conflicting ideas over every single aspect.

I know you're just gathering opinions at this point. Well, here's mine: I wish you luck with this, but I think it will get bogged down in committee.

 

[Mouse]

I'm in a total of 10 anthologies so far, and one has said 'is it ok to change the punctuation here?' to which I said yes. One has said 'I will be change spellings to American to match the rest of the book' to which I said fair enough. And most of the others warn you that they'll do whatever they see fit to the story to make it perfect (basic error correcting). It's all in the contracts usually anyway. A couple of them have sent proofs to every contributor so that they can check their own work.

I've edited two anthologies, one of which I was in, admittedly! But the other I wasn't. I would not want to edit another! I almost fell out with the author on one because they didn't want me to alter punctuation in their poetry. (Don't mess with poets!)

And, I know I've said it before, because nobody seemed to pick up on it/care. If it was to be published on Lulu, the person who put the book together would be making money on it by selling it to everybody else unless everybody shared the account (not possible) and were able to buy it at the same price. I don't think (not completely confident) that you can set the buy price to be the same as the price for the account holder... So I guess the account holder would then somehow have to offer some sort of refund to everybody.

Anyhoo... I know this whole thing is just a 'see what everybody thinks' at the mo. And I've not answered yes or no in the poll. I'm not sure if I would want to be in it, simply because I wouldn't want to fall out with anyone! That's not me saying no either though...

 

[chopper]

if i remember correctly, lulu has the option of setting the retail price as the manufacturing price, thus no profit. on the other hand, you'd have to trust that the accountholder is not being economical with the unit costs...

 

[Mouse]

Ah, I wasn't sure. Cheers, chopper.

 

[mosaix]

The whole concept of the 75 word story is simple: a theme and a story in 75 words. I suggest that we stick with simplicity:

1) Authors decide whether or not to be included.

2) If included, then the author has the right to correct spelling and punctuation, nothing more. Any other 'editing' should be avoided.

I'm ambivalent about any authors 'footnotes' along the lines that DZ mentions. I really don't mind either way.

 

[Susan Boulton]

Just a thought on this matter. No matter which way you go about producing a small anthology of the 75 word stories the writers' egos are going to come into play in some way, it is a fact of life. There will be differences of opinion on everything. From the "don't touch a comma of my work," to "Why is my story number twenty-seven, not number one? That is why I feel you need one person to stand as editor-in-chief and take control of it.

It could actually take the fun out of the monthly comp as well, with folks looking over their shoulder re- will this story make it into the anthology? Where the goal of the comp was and is just to stretch your writing muscles and have a bit of fun.

On a personal note I have always enjoyed reading the shorts, even if I have never gotten round to commenting on them.

 

[Ursa major]

5. Despite what Ursa says, your stories are not now in the public domain. Site rules are clear that you retain copyright to everything posted here, and we have a copyright notice in the first message of each Challenge, so that anyone who comes along and wants to copy the stories cannot plead "I didn't know."

Sorry, Teresa, about my loose use of words.

I should not have used the phrase, Public Domain, as it can be read as having a specific legal meaning; I was merely pointing out that the entries are there for all to see, should they happen to visit the relevant threads, so there's no need for their authors to be shy about letting them be put before the public by another route (however unlikely).

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

Teresa: I was under no illusions about your involvement,m given previous discussions. However, I suspect, since the idea of the challenge was yours, people felt oblidged to mention your name.

Mouse: With the two anthologies you edited, did you get to see/arrange the contract?

I wonder how easy it is to get some form of template for people to conform to.

I also wonder if John Jarrold would have any insight.

So lets ask the question.

 

[Mouse]

Mouse: With the two anthologies you edited, did you get to see/arrange the contract?

Nope. Like I said, I was in one of them and know the other two authors who also contributed so we all trusted one another. With the other (and I've edited a novel too, also with no contract involved) it was just a case of them hiring me to do it and that was that. It was their work, not mine. They were paying me. With the other anthologies, the editor/press pays (or gives discounts/contributor copies to) the contributors so it's sort of different.

I've got plenty of anthology contracts though, if you ever needed to look at one.

 

[nixie]

Have to say my ego wouldn't be a problem, I would expect to pay to have mine included not vice versa. I'm not an aspiring writer, I enter the challenge for fun. I occasionally day dream but I'm well aware of my short comings were writing is concerned.After leaving school I never really wrote anything yes I read but I don't pay attention to grammar, punctuation ETC, to say my writing skills are rusty is an under statement. I'm not putting myself down the problem is sheer idleness on my part. Half the time I hit submit without given what I've posted the once over, then later I notice I've missed words, spelling mistakes ETC. Before I could ever be taking seriously as a writer I need to go back to the classroom.