Opinions of "A Clash Of Kings"

[Tragedy]

What disappointment, if you don't mind my asking? I was losing steam halfway through ACoK, ended up stumbling across some spoilers, but wound up loving ASoS nonetheless. However, I definitely started to feel disappointed in AFFC and am wondering what you find a letdown?

It feels like I have spent an eternity waiting for something interesting to happen. Im almost at the halfway point of ASOS and nothing has happened to hold my interest. I know its going to pick up (this thing called "the red wedding" - am very excited to see what happens) but its so very slow.

Moreso, I am getting very tired of Dany's and Bran's storyline. I find myself skimming through some of the chapters because half of it is a dream and the rest is just boring nonsense.

Im even getting tired of the events up north and this is my most specific disappointment. I am by no means an avid fantasy reader, but the political premise of the first book just hooked me in and I had just hoped to delay the inevitable fantasy heroics for as long as possible (because lets face it, GRRM is not going to let the Others or the wildlings conquer Westeros). If it makes sense, I feel like the series is shifting from its "Game of thrones" premise and now entering "The Song of Ice and Fire" setting.

If George had made the series zero magic, my head would explode from the awesomeness. If the series had been named "The Iron Throne", my head would explode from the awesomeness.

Can anyone understand me, or do my words just seem the rantings of a madman?

 

[HoopyFrood]

Actually, I do in a sense, 'cos I also had a bit of a quibble with the magic. I think I would've just loved this series completely if it had forgone the magic all together and gone for gritty political fantasy. The first book, where we focused mostly on the political stuff, and Dany and the more magicial happenings hadn't really taken off, was pretty cool. I loved every time Tyrion expressed his distaste for stories about magic and mystical happenings. An opinion I could get on board with. I do read my fair share of this sort of fantasy, but the big magic, gods, and heroes with power don't do a great deal for me. I thought the series would be, in large, about the battle for the throne, but I've finished A Storm of Swords and that seems to be mostly done and dusted.

I will, however, say that I'm really getting into Dany's story now, with her becoming more awesome and powerful. I'm quite looking forward to her reaching Westeros. The parts concerning her seem a little too 'Eastern' at times, but that's probably just my own pet peeve and all the stuff on Orientalism I've done.

As for Bran...gah. Doesn't help that he's travelling with know-it-all Jojen.

 

[soulsinging]

Nothing that I've said in this thread has been directed to anyone other than the OP, exc ept for the on response to LORDSNOW. I'm also curious about someone being disappointed with ASOS, but I don't think details are appropraite in this particular thread.

cheers

My bad. You quoted my post so I thought you were responding to me and I'd been unclear about what intrigued me.

 

[soulsinging]

It feels like I have spent an eternity waiting for something interesting to happen. Im almost at the halfway point of ASOS and nothing has happened to hold my interest. I know its going to pick up (this thing called "the red wedding" - am very excited to see what happens) but its so very slow.

Moreso, I am getting very tired of Dany's and Bran's storyline. I find myself skimming through some of the chapters because half of it is a dream and the rest is just boring nonsense.

Im even getting tired of the events up north and this is my most specific disappointment. I am by no means an avid fantasy reader, but the political premise of the first book just hooked me in and I had just hoped to delay the inevitable fantasy heroics for as long as possible (because lets face it, GRRM is not going to let the Others or the wildlings conquer Westeros). If it makes sense, I feel like the series is shifting from its "Game of thrones" premise and now entering "The Song of Ice and Fire" setting.

If George had made the series zero magic, my head would explode from the awesomeness. If the series had been named "The Iron Throne", my head would explode from the awesomeness.

Can anyone understand me, or do my words just seem the rantings of a madman?

Makes good sense to me. I had similar issues, though I think you'll be pleased with the second half of the book. It picks up. However, I'm not sure AFFC will do it for you, given what you say here. I 100% agree with you on viewpoints... Dany's seemed to take far too long to get somewhere interesting and Bran bored me to tears. I'd also add Sansa... her perspective of the politicking in the castle was cool, but her willful, ongoing, and downright stupid naivete began to wear very,very thin. The only thing I enjoyed about AFFC was seeing her finally move beyond that a little bit. But I do rather feel like, for all the pages in the series, things happen glacially slow.

That said, I'm opposite of you. I am itching to learn more about the Others and what the Red Lady's deal is... and it annoys me that he seems to have not only moved away from the struggle for the throne, but even any progress in THAT mystery.

 

[Auburnboss]

Auburnboss,
And finally.... Given your name, I take it you were elated with the Iron Bowl?

Boaz,

I am an Auburn grad, needless to say I was blown away by the comeback in the Iron Bowl. We've made it to about 5 games this year, we'll see how it plays out.

I agree completely with your comments on "Legend." You really pull for Druss, he was a complete badass, but at same time recognized that he had weaknesses that he had to work around. I just recently started reading SF/Fantasy books about two years ago. "Legend" was on some "must read" list I found so I thought I'd check it out, I"m glad I did.

I'm also really glad I found this site.

 

[Tragedy]

Im glad I am not the only one with that particular viewpoint.

Yes, Dany's story in ACOK was horrendously slow and boring. All it featured was some garbage prophecy that is probably important, but I couldnt give 2 ***** about. I can barely bring myself to read Bran's chapters and even right now, every Jon chapter feels the same, just a long, long slog till something happens.

If the war for the iron throne is done, then the only resolve that would keep me happy is an unexpected ending. Like Bronn becoming king.

 

[TK-421]

Well, the series is not for everyone.

 

[The Imp]

Well, the series is not for everyone.

Bingo.

I don't want this to sound snarky, it's not at all meant to be. Given how much reading material is out there, not to mention other forms of entertainment, and then looking at how many hours are available in any given day to read, etc, we owe it to ourselves to be really selective about what we choose to spend a lot of time on. If it isn't doing it for you, don't do it

There's also another solution. If you "hate" certain POVs you can skip them. Dany's especially can easily be omitted. While I find the idea appalling, skipping the Dany chapters and then going to a site like Tower of the Hand to read a synopsis would work fairly well. You could do that with Bran, Brienne and Sansa as well. I don't recommend doing this, but it might be better than dumping the entire series.

I feel as if I have to bathe after saying that

 

[No One]

I feel as if I have to bathe after saying that

So you should. I feel dirty just reading that!

Whatever quibbles can be had in analysing any work of art/entertainment (and it's not like I didn't have a few while reading ASOIAF) they're just so very very small when compared to the strengths of the series.

As TK points out, the series (no series) isn't (or will be) for everyone. If someone is seeing the occasional weakness, while not seeing the strength, then why continue? Massacring the books by tearing out entire character threads is no solution.

 

[Ursa major]

To take the thread even more off-topic....

It strikes me that HBO will have to be careful. Earlier today, I was reading an article asking why audiences for up-to-date** "classical" music are thinner on the ground than those for modern art and architecture; quite a few of the commenters suggested that it had something to do with time, that one could glance at a modern work of art and if it wasn't to one's liking, one could move on to the next exhibit; with music, one is stuck in one's seat for however long the piece lasts (and one may get funny looks if one leaves early).

Game of Thrones (note, not AGOT) is in the position of music: the initial viewers are expected to watch it as presented (i.e. without the use of fast forward). There will be quite of lot of Bran and Dany around over the seasons. Okay, some who are less than entranced by Dany's storyline might stay around for the visuals (yes, it's true ), but will that be enough? And what of Bran?

Now I speak as one who doesn't skip chapters (and so don't feel dirty ), and who was impressed by the way HBO handled the large child cast of season four of The Wire. But it's as well to be aware that some of the things moaned about on these threads (Bran, Brienne, whatever) will cause some folk to switch over or off, which will imact ratings. (It may be we'll have to wait a lot longer to see ASoIaF on the screen than on the page.)



** - Or "modern", if one is to include stuff from the last century.

 

[Boaz]

As for uninspiring or boring POVs, I think there is a difference to be made between a dislike of certain plots and certain characters. Personally, I dislike both Jon and Bran... yet I really like Jon's POVs while I am only mildly interested in Bran's POVs. On the other hand, I love to hate both Catelyn and Cersei, they're awesome characters... but I loved Catelyn's POVs and am annoyed at how interested I am in Cersei's trainwreck of a POV. I dislike all the Greyjoys and their POVs... I wish Jaime would eradicate them from Westeros. I also find Sam a tremendous bore, yet there seems to be tremendous value in his POVs concerning the War with The Other. The only POVs and characters that I love are the Lannsiter brothers! Hear me roar!

 

[Tragedy]

Well, I am sticking around to see the end of the series (hopefully George pulls off a stunner i.e. Bronn killing everything), and what to see the outcomes of my favorite characters.

I think its a further testament to the greatness of the first book when I safely say, I did not like any character. It was entirely the work of the plot and premise that made me flip the pages, eager to see what happens. I only started liking characters in the second book.

 

[Boaz]

Did I really just mispell Lannister? Oh the shame!

Tragedy, I think it's a testament to the storytelling that I don't particularly like any of the Starks, yet I kept reading. Yes, the Lannister boys are my favorites.

I found the same true with Martin's Fevre Dream. I did not really sympathize with the protagonist or his friend, yet I could not stop turning pages. The story, especially the setting, was mesmerizing. Martin built the tension and held it masterfully. I cannot recommend it highly enough and I did not even like the characters (nor did I dislike them either) nor do I like to read horror stories.

 

[Tragedy]

I grew fond of Tyrion in the second book when he was hand. Handled that. Like. A. Boss.
Jaime hasnt done anything thusfar to interest me, yeh he chopped up Ned, but meh.

My favorite characters, are the no namers like Bronn and Theon. Both are extremely selfish characters, one is rising,

Spoiler

the other fell from glory (and died?)

.

I will be ever so happy if this doesnt play out like every epic fantasy, where some overpowered hero who started from nothing saves the day and gets the girl (or guy). And I really think Dany is building up to be that epic cliche.

 

[Ursa major]

GRRm spends so much time being tricksy, I somehow doubt he'll revert to a fantasy cliché.









(Unless it happens to be the least likely ending.... )

 

[The Imp]

I grew fond of Tyrion in the second book when he was hand. Handled that. Like. A. Boss.
Jaime hasnt done anything thusfar to interest me, yeh he chopped up Ned, but meh.

My favorite characters, are the no namers like Bronn and Theon. Both are extremely selfish characters, one is rising,

Spoiler

the other fell from glory (and died?)

.

I will be ever so happy if this doesnt play out like every epic fantasy, where some overpowered hero who started from nothing saves the day and gets the girl (or guy). And I really think Dany is building up to be that epic cliche.

You can bet your house that Dany and her very powerful dragons are coming to Westeros. That's been totally clear from book one one. What isn't clear is what the "final confrontation" will be. There are at least 4 possibilities

Dany + Dragons vs The Others

Dany + Dragons + Starks Vs The Others


Starks vs The Others

Starks (Ice) vs Dany (Fire)

Something else, which is probably more likely

The first two sound like they fit your dreaded formula, the third not so much. In any event, it seems crystal clear to me thatthe finale will be epic, and anything epic requires great power on both sides.

Hopefully this isn't offputting for you

 

[Tragedy]

I will finish the series regardless, but an ending like that, in my opinion, would just kick the entire series in the nuts. It would be like the war of the 5 kings was just some awfully slow buildup to the mega-event and essentially, all the minor characters would be even more minor in the grand scheme of things.

I know alot of people will like this big ole fantasy at its peak showdown, but I find it detracting from the series entirely.

I dont know. I just wanna see Dany get whacked. And not in a heroic fashion either.

 

[Mesanna]

I dont know. I just wanna see Dany get whacked. And not in a heroic fashion either.

This statement made me laugh

I rather think Dany's got a major role yet in the story, but I wouldn't mind seeing her taken down a peg or two, like when she finds out her father was insane and evil! Come on Barristan Selmy, tell her soon!

 

[The Imp]

This statement made me laugh

I rather think Dany's got a major role yet in the story, but I wouldn't mind seeing her taken down a peg or two, like when she finds out her father was insane and evil! Come on Barristan Selmy, tell her soon!

I like Dany. I think she's acted in a manner which has been consistent with trying to do as much "good" as she can in a very "bad" world. I also like the idea of having strong female characters, so I'd be unhappy to see her gone, but i don't think that's happening any time soon.

 

[TK-421]

I actually like Dany as well.

Bran, the King in the North!

GRRM promised us a "bittersweet ending". I am confident he will deliver.