A children's fantasy picture book [images]

[Williamlk]

Wow!!!

I think the artwork is very impressive. I liked it a lot!

 

[The Judge]

I like it, but should I be avoiding the passive tense here?

Is the use of the passive hurting the story? Would it be improved by using something more active?

So:
"That year a grody of subterranean sack worms attacked. One dwarf was killed.
or:
"That year a grody of subterranean sack worms attacked. They killed one dwarf."

Me, I'd go with the first. To my mind the feel and rhythm of it is far better, and it puts the emphasis on the one dwarf without sounding strained that you're not naming him -- the second version sounds odd ("They killed the fisherdwarf" would be fine). But it's your call.

 

[HareBrain]

I agree with TJ, possibly because "they killed one dwarf" is almost showing us the conflict from the sackworms' POV (they being the subject), whereas "one dwarf was killed" is from the dwarfs'. (Though against that, "one dwarf was killed" has a kind of callous, statistical, collateral-damage feel to it.)

 

[Pyan]

Great illustrations, Luke - love the way the dwarves are instantly identifiable, even at a distance.

I showed some of my friends these images and a couple raised the point that the sackworm on page 3 looks like part of a woman's anatomy and thought it was inappropriate for a kids' book.

Umm - no intention of criticising your friends, but the comment might say more about them than the illustrations...

 

[R M Tobias]

Someone's been playing a bit of Dwarf Fortress.

Nice illustrations though. Much better then ASCII art

 

[LukeW]

Someone's been playing a bit of Dwarf Fortress.

Nice illustrations though. Much better then ASCII art

I've played it a bit, though never got into it that much to say that it was a big influence. TBH, the biggest influence on me doing this has been the phenomenal popularity of Minecraft and Spelunky (Spelunky World). Originally I was in the process of building a little 2D game with another person which was going to be frighteningly similar to the core mechanics of Minecraft. When that game came out we scrapped the project as it would have looked too much like a rip-off, and I decided to turn my ideas into a childrens' book as I had always wanted to make one.

Here's an original conecpt shot to give you an idea of where the idea came from:

 

[R M Tobias]

I think it was having all the different classes and moving into an underground barracks that made me think of dwarf fortress. I haven't really seen that in Minecraft.

That's unfortunate about your own game. Still, should still finish the project, not everyone likes 3d worlds.

 

[LukeW]

I've decided that all the left hand pages need re-doing. Since starting this I think I've gotten a lot better at sketching and now looking at those dwarves all standing there I think it looks a bit crap. I've been looking at a lot of artists' works today and realized that a large thing I'm missing is any interesting character composition - all the dwarves are standing there which is boring, plus I think they look overly simplistic.

I redid the cook tonight from page 1. Hopefully it gives a good example of what I'm leaning towards. Obviously not every dwarf is going to be doing something as dramatic as falling over, but hopefully it's a good start to get me out of the whole 'drawing a bunch of statues' phase that I seem to have started with.

I do wish I had sorted this out before drawing 100-odd dwarves.

Also, I'm going to add more beard to them all.

 

[LukeW]

finally, this is the colouring style I'll be going for:

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

I like the way that you have the cook in motion.

And as good as the pictures were as line-drawings, in color like that one they will be absolutely awesome.

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

OK: Missed this one somehow so sorry for the late arrival.

I agree with comments about the demise of the various dwarfs although how you handle it is a different matter.

One thing that struck me was the distorted male female ratio. There was a token woman in the first bunch but you seem to have shied away from women after that.

However the main thing that struck me was these pictures have so much detail that we never get told about.

I'm wondering if there isn't a case for a Rupert Bear approach.

You have your basic lines as shown but add an area of real story line to keep the older kids interested (as they grow). In that area the bones and the minor details, even daily events, can be fully explored. A picture says a thousand words true: but a picture explained will keep them looking for the things you tell them about and the on page experience will last longer. (Presumably giving you longer for the pop ups to really sink in). That way, they start reading with Mother - (oh you sexist B... Tein) but as they grow and are able to read more they will visit the site as years go by. Also Mother (slap) is far more likely to keep revisiting the site if there is something there to read to the children and keep her interested too.

Not so stupid an idea. I know of one Rupert fan that still gets the annual every year.

 

[LukeW]

OK: Missed this one somehow so sorry for the late arrival.

I agree with comments about the demise of the various dwarfs although how you handle it is a different matter.

One thing that struck me was the distorted male female ratio. There was a token woman in the first bunch but you seem to have shied away from women after that.

However the main thing that struck me was these pictures have so much detail that we never get told about.

I'm wondering if there isn't a case for a Rupert Bear approach.

You have your basic lines as shown but add an area of real story line to keep the older kids interested (as they grow). In that area the bones and the minor details, even daily events, can be fully explored. A picture says a thousand words true: but a picture explained will keep them looking for the things you tell them about and the on page experience will last longer. (Presumably giving you longer for the pop ups to really sink in). That way, they start reading with Mother - (oh you sexist B... Tein) but as they grow and are able to read more they will visit the site as years go by. Also Mother (slap) is far more likely to keep revisiting the site if there is something there to read to the children and keep her interested too.

Not so stupid an idea. I know of one Rupert fan that still gets the annual every year.

Thanks for the input.

Regarding the male/female ratio, I found it a lot harder to draw females early on as I was getting my head around drawing (before this I hadn't sketched anything for 10 years, since leaving high school, and was pretty much learning from scratch). As I've been improving I've found it easier to draw the female form (though I still find men easier, must be something about the anatomy) so there are more women in the later years, though still not a 1:1 ratio. As I redo the dwarves I plan on giving some of them a sex change to make up for this discrepancy.

regarding the narrative side. I do plan on adding some to the white sections of the borders that run around the page. As I haven't written any yet I haven't put it in there to show, but if you could imagine the text running around the page like a vortex then the reader would have to turn the book around to read the whole thing. I might knock something up in the next day or so as this seems to be a reoccurring point.

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

Not sure about the book turning idea.

I think for a young reader this may be confusing and certainly as a parent it would have turned me off. It's hard enough getting the little bu**ers to pay attention to a normal page without having to twirl it round.

But hey, others may disagree and I ain't no expert (and that's a fact)

As for the drawing - you obviously missed your way in your younger years; thankfully you seem to have returned to your true vocation now.

 

[Pyan]

Don't want to sound discouraging, but I actually preferred the dwarves as they were before - they were different to the "normal" type of dwarven illustrations. Now they just look (to me) like slightly modernised Tolkien clones.

Sorry...

 

[The Judge]

I actually quite liked all the dwarves standing there like that, even a little lumpen -- as though they had been dragged out of work to have a group photo taken (some bright young thing back at head office thinks it's a good idea) and they were all pretty disgruntled about it!

I'm also going to be another fuddy-duddy and say I preferred the original version of the cook. He looks infinitely more realistic and more of an individual to me, with his big nose and moderate beard -- in his later incarnation he's more like a generic cartoon character. And to my mind the colouring style makes him seem wholly computer generated and detracts from your real talent. Sorry.

But, of course, it doesn't matter whether pyan and I like it, the important thing is whether it will appeal to the children of the requisite age group -- and cartoony, computer graphicy images may well be just the thing.

 

[LukeW]

I actually quite liked all the dwarves standing there like that, even a little lumpen -- as though they had been dragged out of work to have a group photo taken (some bright young thing back at head office thinks it's a good idea) and they were all pretty disgruntled about it!

The big problem I have with it is that there are twelve of those pages and in my opinion it gets a bit boring seeing the same style shot each time.

I'm also going to be another fuddy-duddy and say I preferred the original version of the cook. He looks infinitely more realistic and more of an individual to me, with his big nose and moderate beard -- in his later incarnation he's more like a generic cartoon character. And to my mind the colouring style makes him seem wholly computer generated and detracts from your real talent. Sorry.

The only thing I really changed on the cook was that I gave him a longer beard, and I did that to emphasis the falling motion. I didn't really set out to change anything else about him. I did forgot to add stubble and a few little details.

As for the colour aspect, I would say that it boils down to what's going to be easiest to sell. I imagine it would be a hard task trying to sell a greyscale concept to a publisher (though I'm only guessing) if there was no intention of adding colour to it. One of the early ideas I had was to do all the imagery using a pixel art method, but I thought this would narrow my options for selling the thing. As it is, I think the airbrushed option is probably the most commercially viable option.

 

[Toby Frost]

I agree with the Judge: smaller beards would be better than the stumpy Warhammer/Snow White look. I rather like the way they look like a bunch of workmen hauled out for a group photo. But I've no idea what children like.

Anyway, the quality of the art is great.

 

[LukeW]

Like I said, the beard was added to emphasis the falling motion. I won't do that for all the dwarves.

Right now I'm scratching my head over how to airbrush shiny, metallic surfaces (armour). Turns out it's bloody hard.

 

[LukeW]

Putting this up so people can critique the armour. Does it look okay?

 

[SleepyDormouse]

I really like the original pen and line drawings. I have an 8 yr old son and know that he would love the pictures where you see inside the mines and all the worms burrowing around under them. He loves seeing the inner working of things. I'm not sure how the detail would be kept when you introduce colour to the larger scenes but think it would be a shame if any is lost.

I don't think it would be too scary for him. (we've read an illustrated version of beowolf and that is quite a scary blood-thirsty book, though it did edge on being too much for him, but your book doesn't look anywhere near that).

Don't think turning the book around to read the story in the borders would be a problem, and he would love decoding things, but I think you should keep the decoding to a minimum as lengthy decoding can take too long and I feel he would loose interest if the whole of the borders had to be decoded.

I think I agree that having the left had side of the book always as a posed picture of the dwarves could get tiresome, but its hard to tell without seeing them all. Having little details to look for in these posed pictures would help, or having the picture smaller with more room for a story around the edge.