The Player of Games

[Vertigo]

Consider Phlebas is my least favorite Culture novel. Which is to say I liked it, just not as much as the others. Probably makes sense to read it before Excession and Look to Windward, which make reference to the Idiran War, but definitely think The Player of Games is the best place to start for most readers.

Funnily enough I didn't read them that way and in fact Consider Phlebas was one of the last Culture books I read but I don't recall it being a problem when reading E and LtW.

 

[Nerds_feather]

Funnily enough I didn't read them that way and in fact Consider Phlebas was one of the last Culture books I read but I don't recall it being a problem when reading E and LtW.

I read Excession before Consider Phlebas as well, and it didn't feel, at the time, as if it took anything away from my enjoyment of the book. So yeah, no hard and fast rules here, and certainly fine to read these books out of sequence...I just think, in retrospect, you would gain a little by reading CP first.

 

[Vertigo]

Agreed. At the time I was reading them, my reading was very unstructured. I was doing a lot of work travel at the time so I just used to pick up the first one I saw in airport/railway bookstores. Consequently they came at me in any old order I'm a lot more particular nowadays about reading series in either publication order or chronological order.

One of the things I like about The Culture books is that they are not a series really but rather standalone books set in the same universe. The great thing is that you can get to know and enjoy the universe without constanly having cliff hanger endings.

 

[Nerds_feather]

Now that I can post links, I thought I would share my review of The Player of Games:

http://www.nerds-feather.com/2012/05/microreview-book-player-of-games.html

 

[TheTomG]

Player of Games is also one of my favorite Banks' books. Consider Phlebas is altogether much more dry, I found, and much less deeply steeped in the culture of The Culture. Excession is awesomely fun, but I'd recommend reading 2 or 3 other books first because it's very self-referential to things about Minds and The Culture, but after reading a few of the novels in the 'series' (though it's not a linear series, heh) Excession can easily be a favorite.

At least because of the many fun Ship names

 

[Vertigo]

Actually this brings up a secondary question (that I should probably ask elsewhere, but what the heck?) and that is whether there is a definitive Culture reading order? I orginally read pretty randomly and have been thinking about doing a re-read but I'm not really sure what order to re-read them in.

 

[Allegra]

Actually this brings up a secondary question (that I should probably ask elsewhere, but what the heck?) and that is whether there is a definitive Culture reading order? I orginally read pretty randomly and have been thinking about doing a re-read but I'm not really sure what order to re-read them in.

I've read the Culture books in order and felt it's a smooth path into Banks' world. Though I wouldn't say there is a definitive reading order I think it
definitely helps to get warmed up quicklier with each book.

 

[bobbo19]

WOW, the Player of Games is my favourite book and i've read it about 10 times now (although not recently, i must admit).

Just out of curiosity, what is it about the book that you don't get on with?

Gotta agree with Rodders here, best Iain M Banks book around and read it 3-4 times. Easiest out of the Culture series aswell!

 

[williamjm]

Actually this brings up a secondary question (that I should probably ask elsewhere, but what the heck?) and that is whether there is a definitive Culture reading order? I orginally read pretty randomly and have been thinking about doing a re-read but I'm not really sure what order to re-read them in.

I don't think the order matters too much (other than Surface Detail being after Use of Weapons and maybe Look to Windward being after Consider Phlebas), but I think the order they were published in seems to be a pretty good order to read them in.

 

[Andrew Short]

Thought this was a great look into other aspects of the culture. A very interesting way of bringing in a non-warrior character into special circumstances

 

[J-Sun]

I'm mystified by people who say to start with this book (which I've just finished) vs. Consider Phlebas (which was my first Banks from 2011-02-28). If I'd started with this book, I'd probably never have read another Banks - not that I exactly hated it but just that it would have been hard to get to page 267 (especially after 255-266) without the pre-existing credit Banks had gotten from CP which, while hardly perfect, was pretty good and seems like a much better intro to me. In short, PoG has an ineptly conceived protagonist doing vaguely described and largely uninteresting things for too many pages in pursuit of an obvious conclusion. In long, with a little more balanced delivery and substantiation, there's this page.

It's not that I hated it though - as I say in the long stuff, there's some very funny stuff and some excellent psychodrama - but I didn't really like it. I'm going to read Use of Weapons next (though not immediately) and I hope it's more in line with CP. If it's another PoG, I'm not going to be happy - it sounds more like CP but I hear it more often in conjunction with PoG.

 

[clovis-man]

I'm going to read Use of Weapons next (though not immediately) and I hope it's more in line with CP. If it's another PoG, I'm not going to be happy - it sounds more like CP but I hear it more often in conjunction with PoG.

Banks' novels tend to be unpredictable. Use of Weapons seems to get the most discussion because there are some lingering mysteries when all is said & done. And it is perhaps the most grim of his output. I read Excession first (pure accident) and then Feersum Endjinn (which is unlike anything else he wrote). I suggested PoG as a first book because it does a good job of introducing the reader into the details and some nuances of The Culture. But it's okay if it's not your fave.

 

[Nerds_feather]

I loved Player of Games. The reason why the protagonist is "inept" and "in pursuit of an obvious conclusion" is that it's not obvious for him, he's being manipulated and the purpose of that is to both present what looks like an honest broker and to convert him into an agent with the mindset of Special Circumstances (which is very different from your average leisure-seeker in the Culture). There are also strong references in the text to Ursula LeGuin's The Dispossessed.

Use of Weapons is an entirely different book, though. It is probably more like Consider Phlebas, but it's also considerably better, darker and more complex. Easily my favorite of the series. I also liked Excession, but that's definitely an acquired taste and not for everyone.

 

[J-Sun]

I loved Player of Games. The reason why the protagonist is "inept" and "in pursuit of an obvious conclusion" is that it's not obvious for him, he's being manipulated and the purpose of that is to both present what looks like an honest broker and to convert him into an agent with the mindset of Special Circumstances (which is very different from your average leisure-seeker in the Culture).

Which makes it very exciting to him, I'm sure, but leaves me bored watching the inevitable unfolding of a vague game played by an unlikeable pawn. The larger game played by the AIs in which he is the pawn is not fundamentally different. All it does is seem to show you how the AIs must view humans and make you wonder why they bother.

Use of Weapons is an entirely different book, though. It is probably more like Consider Phlebas, but it's also considerably better, darker and more complex. Easily my favorite of the series.

Yeah, you often can't go by blurbs but my trade paper did make UoW sound a lot more to my taste and closer to CP so I hope that's the case.

 

[Rodders]

Apologies in advance for the necro post. The Player of Games has been my favourite novel ever since I first read it in the nineties.

I recently started looking on ebay at second hand books. Mostly to complete certain trilogies that are missing one or two volumes and to pick up hard covers of kindle books that I enjoyed enough to want to own a physical copy.

I ended up looking for the hard cover of the PoG and was pleased to have won this first edition (?) for only £50 plus postage.



There is some wear, but that Is to be expected in a 31 year old book. I've not seen this cover before.

Quite a bargain as I have seen this on ebay for ridiculous amounts of money.

 

[Vertigo]

Apologies in advance for the necro post. The Player of Games has been my favourite novel ever since I first read it in the nineties.

I recently started looking on ebay at second hand books. Mostly to complete certain trilogies that are missing one or two volumes and to pick up hard covers of kindle books that I enjoyed enough to want to own a physical copy.

I ended up looking for the hard cover of the PoG and was pleased to have won this first edition (?) for only £50 plus postage.

View attachment 53872 View attachment 53873 View attachment 53874 View attachment 53875

There is some wear, but that Is to be expected in a 31 year old book. I've not seen this cover before.

Quite a bargain as I have seen this on ebay for ridiculous amounts of money.

I've not seen that cover before either. Pretty strange as you could easily think you were looking at a fantasy book rather than an SF book. Though I can sort of see the elements from the book that it is portraying.

 

[Dave]

I read Player of Games first because it was the 'managers choice' in a bookshop that I was in. I then read Consider Phlebas and use of Weapons next, but not sure in which order. Then I read each new Culture book in order as they were published. I've never considered that there might be a "correct" order or "preferred" order because the option was not there for me to choose. I'm not sure that there really is a correct, preferred or best order except for one of personal taste.

I've also read all but one of the Iain Banks books too. I read those is a completely random order, which was whatever was on offer or that I could find second hand.

 

[Vertigo]

I read Player of Games first because it was the 'managers choice' in a bookshop that I was in. I then read Consider Phlebas and use of Weapons next, but not sure in which order. Then I read each new Culture book in order as they were published. I've never considered that there might be a "correct" order or "preferred" order because the option was not there for me to choose. I'm not sure that there really is a correct, preferred or best order except for one of personal taste.

I've also read all but one of the Iain Banks books too. I read those is a completely random order, which was whatever was on offer or that I could find second hand.

Sounds like you're in much the same place as me. I've now read all but one Iain Banks book. It goes without saying I've read all the Ms, but have now embarked on a Culture re-read, this time in published order, but only two books in so far, so I've also only fairly recently reread The Player of Games. I just finished The Quarry a few days ago which only leaves The Steep approach to Garbadale, about which I'm a little concerned as I've heard it's just a poor repeat of the themes from The Crow Road...

 

[Dave]

The Steep approach to Garbadale... it's just a poor repeat of the themes from The Crow Road...

Yes, it is, but I read it before the Crow Road. The Crow Road is better. For no particular reason, I haven't read Espedair Street.

 

[Vertigo]

Yes, it is, but I read it before the Crow Road. The Crow Road is better. For no particular reason, I haven't read Espedair Street.

I'd have said that, by Banks' standards, Espedair Street is one of his lighter novels. Very character driven, not much in the way of plot, but also very easy and enjoyable reading with little in the way of hidden themes/meanings. I would pick up a copy if you see it.