Outcasts
- Thread starter Ursa major
- Start date
I recorded the final episode and only watched it last night, so apologies for prolonging the agony. Perhaps this thread should be preserved forever as a warning to future generations.
I said something similar to alchemissus at the time. That was shockingly bad.
That's because they're, like, at one with the planet, man.
How did a sonic shield prevent the ship from finding them? Does noise interfere with radio waves?
All in all, despite the bad science, it was the implausibility of some of the characters that annoyed me the most. Tate said "There's no proof the ACs did it." Proof? There was never a shred of evidence they caused the virus. Yet genocide was planned, twice. And how could the ACs (not able to shoot a gun in Ep.2) develop this sophisticated virus? Do they have a lab behind a rock?
And the ease with which Berger took over? The invisible, and mute, Council?
Finally, an annoying, obsessional image has haunted me since last night. When Cass and Fleur were sitting on a rise in the desert, waiting for the ACs, I imagined an AC head popping up from behind a rock for a second, then dropping. Then another head behind another rock, then another. Like a group of meerkats, in fact. I can't get rid of it.
I said something similar to alchemissus at the time. That was shockingly bad.
That's because they're, like, at one with the planet, man.
How did a sonic shield prevent the ship from finding them? Does noise interfere with radio waves?
That must have been it. I wonder what he had planned. Will we ever know? I am slightly curious about how the malfunctioning settlers could have dealt with a ship full of baddies, intent on homicide.
All in all, despite the bad science, it was the implausibility of some of the characters that annoyed me the most. Tate said "There's no proof the ACs did it." Proof? There was never a shred of evidence they caused the virus. Yet genocide was planned, twice. And how could the ACs (not able to shoot a gun in Ep.2) develop this sophisticated virus? Do they have a lab behind a rock?
And the ease with which Berger took over? The invisible, and mute, Council?
Finally, an annoying, obsessional image has haunted me since last night. When Cass and Fleur were sitting on a rise in the desert, waiting for the ACs, I imagined an AC head popping up from behind a rock for a second, then dropping. Then another head behind another rock, then another. Like a group of meerkats, in fact. I can't get rid of it.
If the thread is to endure as a warning, perhaps a secure copy should be made (as should threads about The Deep and the like).
Bearing in mind the overall insignificance of Outcasts, I know just the place:
comparethemerecrap.com
Boom boom, Ursa 
Is it me, or does the quality of British sci-fi seem to have an inverse relationship with the amount of money spent on it?
Early Red Dwarf > Recent Red Dwarf
Old Who > New Who
Is it me, or does the quality of British sci-fi seem to have an inverse relationship with the amount of money spent on it?
Early Red Dwarf > Recent Red Dwarf
Old Who > New Who
Anthony G Williams
Greybeard
I find it a bit amusing that amid all the criticism of the unreality of the method of transmitting the mysterious disease, no-one's commented on an even more glaring impossibility - the faster-than-light spaceships being built within the next few decades. Because they're, like, science-fictional, OK?
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- Jun 28, 2007
- Messages
- 2,711
I am sort of hoping that they do make a second series. I do want to see all the loose ends tied up and I am curious as the who or what Berger was communicating with. They sound pretty nasty. Call me a masochist, but come on BBC another go.
If it does return (I doubt it will), I hope the numerous flaws are ironed out.
Anthony G Williams
Greybeard
This eight-part serial has now finished, so as promised I'll sum up. To refresh your memories, I'll include some of what I said after the first two episodes.
The scenario is far enough into the future for humanity to have developed huge starships, one of which had managed to establish a colony on the distant planet of Carpathia (named after the ship which rescued survivors of the Titanic disaster) some fifteen years before. The name is significant as civilisation on Earth is collapsing, and the last starship is due to arrive.
Almost all of the 70,000 humans are concentrated in one walled settlement, Forthaven. The president (Liam Cunningham) aided by the head of security (Hermione Norris, who famously played a formidable MI5 agent in Spooks) try to hold the line while preparing for the arrival of the starship. All is not well, as the ship has suffered some damage which threatens disaster if it tries to land on the planet, so it launches an escape pod to ensure that some survive.
All is not well on Carpathia, either, as the team of explorers who spend most of their time away from the settlement are planning a rebellion. Just to complicate matters further, there is a band of renegade artificial humans (advanced cultivars, or ACs) in the wild, rejected by the settlement years before, with whom there is intermittent but bitter conflict.
The focus is very much on the human drama and the acting is initially variable (Norris being the stand-out performer) with some of the dialogue sounding stiff and awkward; a perennial screen-SF problem. This seemed to get better as the serial progressed, or perhaps I just got used to it. Also developing through the serial was the role and relationship of two of the internal security officers, played by Daniel Mays and Amy Manson.
I was amused to note that the one clear villain - the former head of the evacuation programme (played by Eric Mabius), who arrives on the escape pod and immediately starts to worm his sly and manipulative way up Carpathia's hierarchy - is constantly criticised for bringing religion to the secular colony and cynically using this as his vehicle for building a power base. I suspect this might not go down too well in some markets…
The SF elements are initially weak, and by the half-way stage I was ready to dismiss it as a soap opera with a few unusual plot elements in a mildly exotic setting. It is a puzzle to work out what everyone does or how they live, as the town is surrounded by wasteland and hardly anyone ever goes outside the walls. The discovery of natural diamonds lying around to be picked up is acceptable, but the fact that they are mysteriously gem-cut rather than in the rough is not. However, the background music is worth a mention as it is one of the strong points. It reaches elegaic heights, powerfully reinforcing moments of high drama. Intriguingly, the more stacatto music used to accompany action scenes is very reminiscent of similar music in Spooks.
The second half of the serial contains a lot more science-fictional mystery, although it frequently doesn't seem to make sense. First comes the discovery of fossils of early hominim remains, despite the fact that there is no other animal life on the planet - just plants and insects (I still don't understand that: hominims dying out, sure, but they would only have been the tip of an enormous pyramid of animal life - did that all die out? We are not told). This is accompanied by hints from one of the first men on the planet, who has been living rough in the wild, that the planet did not want humans there. Then people begin to report seeing loved ones they know to be dead, a convincing duplicate of one of the explorers appears (the fact that this duplicate is clearly solid, whereas others appear and disappear instantly, remains unexplained), a mysterious disease strikes and it becomes clear that the colony is facing a deadly but hidden threat. Meanwhile, a further and unsuspected starship secretly approaches Carpathia with malevolent intentions.
By the start of the final episode I was wondering how all of the plot threads, both human and alien, could possibly be resolved in just one hour. The answer is that they weren't; it ends on a huge multiple cliff-hanger, the point of maximum crisis for the whole story so far, evidently lining everything up for a second serial. This would be fine if a sequel was coming along soon, but the viewing figures were disappointing and the BBC announced immediately after the finale that the planned second serial had been cancelled. So, rather frustratingly, we will never know the answers to the many questions.
Why did it fail? I think it was too adult and slow-paced to appeal to the usual Doctor Who/Primeval band of TV SFF followers, while containing too many unexplained inconsistencies to satisfy more mature SF fans (a nit-picking lot, we are). And of course, few people who are not SF fans bother to watch any SF programmes unless they are so good that they transcend the usual genre prejudice barrier.
Outcasts is easy to poke holes in, but I found I had become strangely attached to it and will miss my weekly visits to Carpathia. Despite a slow start and the unexplained inconsistencies, it had managed to get its hooks into me.
(An extract from my SFF blog)
The scenario is far enough into the future for humanity to have developed huge starships, one of which had managed to establish a colony on the distant planet of Carpathia (named after the ship which rescued survivors of the Titanic disaster) some fifteen years before. The name is significant as civilisation on Earth is collapsing, and the last starship is due to arrive.
Almost all of the 70,000 humans are concentrated in one walled settlement, Forthaven. The president (Liam Cunningham) aided by the head of security (Hermione Norris, who famously played a formidable MI5 agent in Spooks) try to hold the line while preparing for the arrival of the starship. All is not well, as the ship has suffered some damage which threatens disaster if it tries to land on the planet, so it launches an escape pod to ensure that some survive.
All is not well on Carpathia, either, as the team of explorers who spend most of their time away from the settlement are planning a rebellion. Just to complicate matters further, there is a band of renegade artificial humans (advanced cultivars, or ACs) in the wild, rejected by the settlement years before, with whom there is intermittent but bitter conflict.
The focus is very much on the human drama and the acting is initially variable (Norris being the stand-out performer) with some of the dialogue sounding stiff and awkward; a perennial screen-SF problem. This seemed to get better as the serial progressed, or perhaps I just got used to it. Also developing through the serial was the role and relationship of two of the internal security officers, played by Daniel Mays and Amy Manson.
I was amused to note that the one clear villain - the former head of the evacuation programme (played by Eric Mabius), who arrives on the escape pod and immediately starts to worm his sly and manipulative way up Carpathia's hierarchy - is constantly criticised for bringing religion to the secular colony and cynically using this as his vehicle for building a power base. I suspect this might not go down too well in some markets…
The SF elements are initially weak, and by the half-way stage I was ready to dismiss it as a soap opera with a few unusual plot elements in a mildly exotic setting. It is a puzzle to work out what everyone does or how they live, as the town is surrounded by wasteland and hardly anyone ever goes outside the walls. The discovery of natural diamonds lying around to be picked up is acceptable, but the fact that they are mysteriously gem-cut rather than in the rough is not. However, the background music is worth a mention as it is one of the strong points. It reaches elegaic heights, powerfully reinforcing moments of high drama. Intriguingly, the more stacatto music used to accompany action scenes is very reminiscent of similar music in Spooks.
The second half of the serial contains a lot more science-fictional mystery, although it frequently doesn't seem to make sense. First comes the discovery of fossils of early hominim remains, despite the fact that there is no other animal life on the planet - just plants and insects (I still don't understand that: hominims dying out, sure, but they would only have been the tip of an enormous pyramid of animal life - did that all die out? We are not told). This is accompanied by hints from one of the first men on the planet, who has been living rough in the wild, that the planet did not want humans there. Then people begin to report seeing loved ones they know to be dead, a convincing duplicate of one of the explorers appears (the fact that this duplicate is clearly solid, whereas others appear and disappear instantly, remains unexplained), a mysterious disease strikes and it becomes clear that the colony is facing a deadly but hidden threat. Meanwhile, a further and unsuspected starship secretly approaches Carpathia with malevolent intentions.
By the start of the final episode I was wondering how all of the plot threads, both human and alien, could possibly be resolved in just one hour. The answer is that they weren't; it ends on a huge multiple cliff-hanger, the point of maximum crisis for the whole story so far, evidently lining everything up for a second serial. This would be fine if a sequel was coming along soon, but the viewing figures were disappointing and the BBC announced immediately after the finale that the planned second serial had been cancelled. So, rather frustratingly, we will never know the answers to the many questions.
Why did it fail? I think it was too adult and slow-paced to appeal to the usual Doctor Who/Primeval band of TV SFF followers, while containing too many unexplained inconsistencies to satisfy more mature SF fans (a nit-picking lot, we are). And of course, few people who are not SF fans bother to watch any SF programmes unless they are so good that they transcend the usual genre prejudice barrier.
Outcasts is easy to poke holes in, but I found I had become strangely attached to it and will miss my weekly visits to Carpathia. Despite a slow start and the unexplained inconsistencies, it had managed to get its hooks into me.
(An extract from my SFF blog)
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- Mar 16, 2008
- Messages
- 3,282
Anthony:
I'm surprised. I found the final episode the most disappointing of the lot exposing the lack of any scientific knowledge on the part of the scriptwriters.
To suggest that DNA/RNA could be 'injected/manipulated by ultra sonic pulses was bad enough but to then suggest that having re-arranged someone's (and not just any someone but a specific someone) genetic code it would somehow self heal itself if the stimulus was removed would require a religious transformation on my part.
To then take it further and suggest those 'ultra sonic' blocking signals would somehow affect a spaceships navigational systems was bad enough but in spaceship in the outer reaches of the atmosphere?
Worse still the supposed success of the 'shield' was demonstrably useless (thereby showing it was nonsense even as it was apparently working) as the 'duplicate president was strolling about in his office even as the DNA was repairing itself in the medi-ward.
This series (given the general public's general ignorance) could easily put the advancement of human scientific knowledge back decades if not centuries. You wait, in years to come people (politicians, today's school children and the like) will be making important life changing decisions based on this program's bad science. Billions of pounds will be wasted investing in the cure for cancer using DNA manipulation by ultra sound.
Someone will pustulate that AIDS is in fact caused by an alien race trying to take over the planet using bombardment with ultrasonic waves. The search for these aliens will no doubt become the eventual downfall of humanity.
I'm surprised. I found the final episode the most disappointing of the lot exposing the lack of any scientific knowledge on the part of the scriptwriters.
To suggest that DNA/RNA could be 'injected/manipulated by ultra sonic pulses was bad enough but to then suggest that having re-arranged someone's (and not just any someone but a specific someone) genetic code it would somehow self heal itself if the stimulus was removed would require a religious transformation on my part.
To then take it further and suggest those 'ultra sonic' blocking signals would somehow affect a spaceships navigational systems was bad enough but in spaceship in the outer reaches of the atmosphere?
Worse still the supposed success of the 'shield' was demonstrably useless (thereby showing it was nonsense even as it was apparently working) as the 'duplicate president was strolling about in his office even as the DNA was repairing itself in the medi-ward.
This series (given the general public's general ignorance) could easily put the advancement of human scientific knowledge back decades if not centuries. You wait, in years to come people (politicians, today's school children and the like) will be making important life changing decisions based on this program's bad science. Billions of pounds will be wasted investing in the cure for cancer using DNA manipulation by ultra sound.
Someone will pustulate that AIDS is in fact caused by an alien race trying to take over the planet using bombardment with ultrasonic waves. The search for these aliens will no doubt become the eventual downfall of humanity.
TEIN - I think it is stretching a little to blame the whole of societies scientific ignorance on the writers of 'Outcasts'.
I think I have identified another of the main problems:
There just weren't enough "people" shown. We only ever got to see about 10 or 12 characters (and some of those died). We only heard from about 4 Council members. It felt like it was really a very small colony, yet they kept telling us how large it was. From the top of the hill it was huge, but we only ever saw the entrance, the same street and a square with a tree. These are budgetary constraints obviously, but nothing to stop them dressing the street differently or giving more speaking parts. There were 12 Council members around the table, just that 8 of them sat and said nothing. Too many different things happened to Tipper Malone; he had some different experience every week.
Added to the bad science, the bad engineering, the lack of any transport, the ease with which the ACs could get in and out of Forthaven, and the still-unexplained it was a badly conceived series.
I think I have identified another of the main problems:
There just weren't enough "people" shown. We only ever got to see about 10 or 12 characters (and some of those died). We only heard from about 4 Council members. It felt like it was really a very small colony, yet they kept telling us how large it was. From the top of the hill it was huge, but we only ever saw the entrance, the same street and a square with a tree. These are budgetary constraints obviously, but nothing to stop them dressing the street differently or giving more speaking parts. There were 12 Council members around the table, just that 8 of them sat and said nothing. Too many different things happened to Tipper Malone; he had some different experience every week.
Added to the bad science, the bad engineering, the lack of any transport, the ease with which the ACs could get in and out of Forthaven, and the still-unexplained it was a badly conceived series.
Yep
You don't need a massive budget to make great sci-fi. What I find so frustrating about the BBC is that they seem to give up before they even start. An attitude that they will never match the best of american sci-fi so what does it matter if what they have produced is awful.
I haven't read through all the comments because I've only watched the pilot episode so far. Forgive me if this has already been noted in earlier comments.
The actors who play the commander of the transport ship in the pilot episode and the leader of the AC gang who appears in ep. 2 are both South African. The outdoor scenes looked so familiar so I checked today and the series was filmed in South Africa.
The actors who play the commander of the transport ship in the pilot episode and the leader of the AC gang who appears in ep. 2 are both South African. The outdoor scenes looked so familiar so I checked today and the series was filmed in South Africa.
Interference
Destroyer of Words
I'm even lazier than Daisy-Boo, so I've only read, like, two or three of the shorter comments and am relieved to discover I'm not alone in my disdain for this truly wasteful series.
Actually, I'm mostly relieved that it didn't improve after I stopped wasting my time by watching it.
I endured all of episode one and about fifteen minutes of episode two waiting for the science fiction to start. So far, all we'd had of it up to that point was a crashing space ship presented in possibly the least exciting way it is possible to do on TV with CGI.
As someone who has never been a parent, I've never been able to get that we are meant to feel more concern for dying children than for dying adults. Either way, rampant diseases aren't Sci-Fi, they're all around us. You don't need to be a colony on a distant "new earth" *yawwwwnnn* And those nasty, rebellious outsiders? Yeah, I've seen worse on my local housing estates. Real life is far scarier, y'know.
Anyway, I won't linger on this as I'm sure it's all said in the preceding pages. If only, if only they had employed a proper writer to turn in the series we might have ended up with something interesting (apologies to the writer/creator whose name I've forgotten, who is probably a really decent guy and who probably had his hands tied by the execs in charge of the finances). The episodes of this series that I saw lacked humour, drama or excitement, replacing them with (dare I say) sentimentality and melodrama.
Phooey.
Actually, I'm mostly relieved that it didn't improve after I stopped wasting my time by watching it.
I endured all of episode one and about fifteen minutes of episode two waiting for the science fiction to start. So far, all we'd had of it up to that point was a crashing space ship presented in possibly the least exciting way it is possible to do on TV with CGI.
As someone who has never been a parent, I've never been able to get that we are meant to feel more concern for dying children than for dying adults. Either way, rampant diseases aren't Sci-Fi, they're all around us. You don't need to be a colony on a distant "new earth" *yawwwwnnn* And those nasty, rebellious outsiders? Yeah, I've seen worse on my local housing estates. Real life is far scarier, y'know.
Anyway, I won't linger on this as I'm sure it's all said in the preceding pages. If only, if only they had employed a proper writer to turn in the series we might have ended up with something interesting (apologies to the writer/creator whose name I've forgotten, who is probably a really decent guy and who probably had his hands tied by the execs in charge of the finances). The episodes of this series that I saw lacked humour, drama or excitement, replacing them with (dare I say) sentimentality and melodrama.
Phooey.
I'm not sure, but I thought the wife of the character played by Mr Bamber also sounded South African. (Given that the series was filmed there, we shouldn't be too surprised by this.)
Lenny
Press "X" to admire hat
Finally got round to watching the last two episodes.
Things were really starting to hot up... and then it ended. It just ended. What?! Eight hours and no resolution...
Bah...
And you know what makes me angry? Like, really angry? The Beeb have gone and cancelled it. So not only did it end when it appeared to be getting interesting (I don't care what the rest of you say, I've just spent two hours watching the last episodes and I was starting to enjoy it), with absolutely no indication of what might happen, but now we'll never know because it's not going to return.
Double bah...
Things were really starting to hot up... and then it ended. It just ended. What?! Eight hours and no resolution...
Bah...
And you know what makes me angry? Like, really angry? The Beeb have gone and cancelled it. So not only did it end when it appeared to be getting interesting (I don't care what the rest of you say, I've just spent two hours watching the last episodes and I was starting to enjoy it), with absolutely no indication of what might happen, but now we'll never know because it's not going to return.
Double bah...
