Science & Religion (The Vatican's Interest)

[UltraCulture]

Found this on the Beebs site.

BBC News - Vatican's space mission

Pretty apt as I'm currently reading Galileo's Dream.

 

[J-WO]

re: Science & Religion (The Vatican's Interest)

They had their chance to be matey with science millenia ago. Instead, they forced Gallileo to recant his theorys, burnt Giovanni Bruno at the stake (for suggesting other people might live on other planets, SciFi fans) and dragged Hypatia into a church, stripped her naked and beat her to death.

Why? Because the power was in their hands back then. Now they've mostly been de-clawed, they come to us with big smiles attempting to persuade us reason and superstition have some kind of parity.

 

[Tinsel]

re: Science & Religion (The Vatican's Interest)

They must not have read the Bible enough times. I thought that these two friends were fated to destroy each other or is that what this is all about?

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

re: Science & Religion (The Vatican's Interest)

It's an old ploy.

First appear to see reason. Experiment and invest, get chummy. Put some money into ambitious projects. Something big that will be difficult to argue against. The publish your nonsense and call it truth.

When the Hadron collider fails they could by it for a prayer. Run it for a few years
(using mothballs) then announce the God particle.


In this sense old 'D Brown' wasn't too far wide of the mark.

 

[chrispenycate]

re: Science & Religion (The Vatican's Interest)

He certainly didn't concentrate on getting the physics right; I don't know enough about international conspiracy to know how he did on that.

But science and religion can never prove each other wrong; they're orthogonal. Not even contradictory, as long as the religion doesn't set its back to the wall and start executing people for thinking outside the box. But it's very easy for a religious figure to get terrified by the scale of a deity significant on a cosmic scale; they want the hymns like "his chariots of wrath the deep thunderclouds form", gods no bigger than Zeus or Thor, and science insists on a hundred million, a thousand trillion times bigger, which is destabilising to someone who is acting as an official translator.

 

[mosaix]

re: Science & Religion (The Vatican's Interest)

I wonder if the website will show the Sun going round the Earth?

 

[Tinsel]

re: Science & Religion (The Vatican's Interest)

Apparently in the Middle Ages 350 - 1250, somewhere within that time frame, the Catholic Church had to provide the answers to questions on Bible interpretations, and than there were scientists who endangered the authority of the Bible. The one thing that happened though is during the Reformation, the Catholics and the Protestants were at odds, and I guess that scientists sounded in some ways like they were Protestants according to their persecutors. Yet as far as I know, the Aristocracy usually supported the Catholics. The Scientists were at odds with more than just the Catholic Church.

Where we see the division most clearly now is within the school system. I guess it might be interesting to see what they have to say. There used to be a lot of religious studies and also religious scholarship. Id rather look at that I think, but it is difficult to find. I'm not quite talking about theology, but more so having to do with Christ, for example titles such as "Natural Law in the Spiritual World", or "Purity and Power".

 

[mosaix]

re: Science & Religion (The Vatican's Interest)

Last year we had visitors to stay. She was a friend of my wife and neither of us had met her husband before. He is a very strong Roman Catholic - nothing wrong with that. Except that he started a conversation defending the Catholic Church's treatment of Galileo, Bruno and others along the lines of "They were just seeking to enforce a view of the Universe that they thought was accurate."

Now, normally I wouldn't start an argument with a guest but there are limits...

"But they tortured and burned people at the stake..."

"Well yes, but they thought they were doing right."

"Well so did the Yorkshire Ripper - what's your point?"

Apparently they may come again this year...

 

[Lacedaemonian]

re: Science & Religion (The Vatican's Interest)

Who has killed more? The scientist or the religious figure? I used to hold to the naive view that religion was the cause of so many wars. Simply not true. Now I aint going to accuse science of causing wars but what science has done is arm the world in terrible ways. The dark ages were that. Technology is killing us all now.

Check out Richard C. Duncan's Olduvai theory.

 

[Dave]

re: Science & Religion (The Vatican's Interest)

"Science can help in that, but it doesn't have all the answers, and we must accept that," he says.

Science doesn't claim to have all the answers, but the scientific method of theory and experimentation continues to roll back the frontiers of what we do know. There was 'nothing' before the Big Bang. Only Religions make claims that cannot be substantiated and need Faith.

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

re: Science & Religion (The Vatican's Interest)

Last year we had visitors to stay. She was a friend of my wife and neither of us had met her husband before. He is a very strong Roman Catholic - nothing wrong with that. Except that he started a conversation defending the Catholic Church's treatment of Galileo, Bruno and others along the lines of "They were just seeking to enforce a view of the Universe that they thought was accurate."

Now, normally I wouldn't start an argument with a guest but there are limits...

"But they tortured and burned people at the stake..."

"Well yes, but they thought they were doing right."

"Well so did the Yorkshire Ripper - what's your point?"

Apparently they may come again this year...

Oooh can I join in?

Science doesn't claim to have all the answers, but the scientific method of theory and experimentation continues to roll back the frontiers of what we do know. There was 'nothing' before the Big Bang. Only Religions make claims that cannot be substantiated and need Faith.

I'm not a big fan of "The One Big Bang". If it can happen, it can happen twice. Why should we limit ourselves to a local event we call the Universe. Just because we can't see past the end of our local expansion doesn't mean there aren't others out there. Also it would help explain the non-shrinking effect. If we are surrounded by invisible universes our's will just get dragged apart by the rest of them.

 

[J Riff]

re: Science & Religion (The Vatican's Interest)

But- back in the day- the church was more like the cops, or the goon squads, are now, they weren't about thought, they actually ruled with an iron hand. Unless you believe their literature, of course. Who knows why they actually killed people, if they did, it was probably for profit, same as today.
I've diametrically shifted my opinion on the 'space program' in the last ten yrs. or so, I'd like to see them cut down to a shoestring. Not because 'there are problems here on earth blahblah'... I just don't like them. ) One more corrupt wing of the Govt.

 

[Dave]

re: Science & Religion (The Vatican's Interest)

I'm not a big fan of "The One Big Bang". If it can happen, it can happen twice. Why should we limit ourselves to a local event we call the Universe. Just because we can't see past the end of our local expansion doesn't mean there aren't others out there. Also it would help explain the non-shrinking effect. If we are surrounded by invisible universes our's will just get dragged apart by the rest of them.

That may be so, but my point was that, if so, then one day Science will find a way see beyond the Big Bang and prove it, or alternatively it will not prove it. Science may not have all the answers right now, but answers are added to the list every day. Science knows what it knows and it questions what it doesn't know.

What that commentator I quoted was trying to do is say - Science doesn't have all the answers AND SO you need a God to explain what is behind the Big Bang. Only God can give you the answers you seek - I don't agree with that, and more, Religions by their very nature survive by being conservative and not questioning things.

 

[mosaix]

re: Science & Religion (The Vatican's Interest)

That may be so, but my point was that, if so, then one day Science will find a way see beyond the Big Bang and prove it, or alternatively it will not prove it. Science may not have all the answers right now, but answers are added to the list every day. Science knows what it knows and it questions what it doesn't know.

What that commentator I quoted was trying to do is say - Science doesn't have all the answers AND SO you need a God to explain what is behind the Big Bang. Only God can give you the answers you seek - I don't agree with that, and more, Religions by their very nature survive by being conservative and not questioning things.

Good post, Dave.

I'm always baffled by the statement "Science doesn't have all the answers". So what?

How does this compare with the number of answers that religion has provided? I'm prepared to be convinced but I'm still trying to think of one.

 

[Moonbat]

re: Science & Religion (The Vatican's Interest)

Check out Richard C. Duncan's Olduvai theory.

I just followed that link and read the page it took me too, the guy there, Richard Duncan, initially says that permanent blackouts (part of the cliff slide into the de-industrial age) will occur by 2012, then he re-forecasts that forward to 2007.

Umm, 2007! Isn't it already 2011, am I right in thinking that most American states are not experiencing permanent blackouts?

I'm always skeptical when I read that someone has predicted some earth shattering event that happens just a few years into the future, but its very heartening to look back on these old predictions and see that they were wrong.
How many times have people forecast that the world will end? And how many times have they been wrong. That said, eventually they will be right

 

[Tinsel]

re: Science & Religion (The Vatican's Interest)

Science has proven itself very useful, suggested by our current life style. Someone made the comment that it has created problems, along with benefits. Technology is adapted to by human beings.

So the real questions should be, what has religion accomplished in comparison to scientific discoveries? Than someone mentioned that there was an orthogonal relationship.

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

re: Science & Religion (The Vatican's Interest)

How many times have people forecast that the world will end? And how many times have they been wrong. That said, eventually they will be right

Oiy!!!

Dave: Yep, fair point as Mosaix says.

 

[J-WO]

re: Science & Religion (The Vatican's Interest)

I don't know whether to credit this Olduvai theory, but it would explain the fermi paradox very neatly. Why has no one contacted us? Because they're all banging rocks together...

 

[mosaix]

re: Science & Religion (The Vatican's Interest)

I don't know whether to credit this Olduvai theory,

There doesn't seem to be any mention of nuclear fusion or solar power.

 

[Parson]

re: Science & Religion (The Vatican's Interest)

I'm always baffled by the statement "Science doesn't have all the answers". So what?

How does this compare with the number of answers that religion has provided? I'm prepared to be convinced but I'm still trying to think of one.

I would say numbers in this case are irrelevant. Knowing a large number of answers is less important than knowing the right answer at the right time.

Christianity (not knowing enough about other religions to generalize here) is always tempted to pontificate on things which are not central to it's God given mandate. For many people Christianity answers existential questions such as "Is there a purpose for my life?" "Do I count for anything?" etc.