Discussion -- June 2011 Challenge

[paranoid marvin]

Re: DISCUSSION the 75 Word Challenge JUNE 2011

Personally I'd say that a quiet word from a mod in the case o someone seen to be taking advantage of the 'no limit title' issue would be sufficient. Although the rules aren't explicit , I'm sure that we all have a good idea as to what is appropriate when it comes to titling a piece. And if the Challenge became eighty words including the title , how many would shave the title down to a single word, in order to use the extra four in the story?

Of course if this was the case , then part of the scoring criteria would then have to take into account the title of the piece; and although some would probably find that to be a good thing , I think that on the whole most members would prefer to spend as little effort on the title as they had to.

 

[HoopyFrood]

Re: DISCUSSION the 75 Word Challenge JUNE 2011

As someone who is naff at titles and usually just throws whatever comes to mind onto the piece right at the end (even forgetting the do so sometimes and having to make one up on the spur of the moment after posting) I would prefer for titles to retain their current status of not included in the overall story/not limited in words (within reason).

Although I don't think it's been any great transgression in this month's instance, I would also prefer that what is posted in the challenge thread is merely the 75 word story, and no notes, footnotes, comments or anything extra be added.

 

[Aun Doorback]

Re: DISCUSSION the 75 Word Challenge JUNE 2011

1: This is a subjective business anyway - One man's poison and all that jazz.
2: I participate in the spirit of it being a bit of fun amongst friends but the writing challenge in itself has made me more disciplined as a writer (So a big thanks to the chrons).
3: I actually think titles are important and should relate in someway to the story, however for all your W.I.P please try not to get too attached to a title as a publisher can always have it changed.
4: If you need to explain your story in anyway either as a note or thread then you probably haven't nailed it.
5: It's all good material and I love the challenge, but let's keep it simple and as free for expression as possible.

 

[Parson]

Re: DISCUSSION the 75 Word Challenge JUNE 2011

let's keep it simple as a free for expression as possible.

Amen!

I would agree with whomever talked about "a quiet word from the mods" is on the right track. There have been comments -- clever titles -- and bone head mistakes. I'm guilty of the first and the last. But I've never tried to extend my story by them. As a Christian I'm all for grace.

(Which is what I'll need to come up with anything vaguely like Kipling. )

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Re: DISCUSSION the 75 Word Challenge JUNE 2011

If its left as is, I guarantee you I'll be putting one in next month

This sounds suspiciously like an ultimatum aimed at the mods, Gary. We don't look favorably on those, just so you know.

So the rest of the world don't know the places mentioned, then they read the note and it all becomes clear.

This is an international forum, and I will say that as an American I often feel left out when stories are discussed and people are referring to things that I don't know about and wouldn't know how to go about looking up. I appreciate being included. Where such notes belong, in the story thread or the discussion thread, is a legitimate question, but as part of "the rest of the world" I do appreciate those who are considerate enough to let me feel like I am a part of things. To date, this has never influenced my opinion of a story, but it does make me feel more comfortable on these forums.

That has to be wrong however, ill-intended their inclusions were.

I think you either need to edit your posts more carefully, or apologize to pyan and others who have made such inclusions for calling their actions ill-intended. None of us are in a position to pronounce on anyone else's intentions in these matters.

Were we to start discussing intentions, some of the "friendly banter" might have to come under closer scrutiny.

 

[paranoid marvin]

Re: DISCUSSION the 75 Word Challenge JUNE 2011

Far be it from me to speak for GC , but from the wording of the rest of his post (and his posts in general) I take it he meant well-intended

 

[Brev]

Re: DISCUSSION the 75 Word Challenge JUNE 2011

Phew....titles, notes, rules, clarification?? Therein lies the road to a headache and where's the fun in that?? But for the record I'm in the 'we should all hopefully be astute enough to notice if someone is trying to gain advantage by notes/titles and exercise our votes accordingly if we so wish club.'

Aaaand back on subject - Oxman, Mosaix, nice job, 'on the money'.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Re: DISCUSSION the 75 Word Challenge JUNE 2011

Far be it from me to speak for GC , but from the wording of the rest of his post (and his posts in general) I take it he meant well-intended

Yes, that's what I think too, which is why I suggested a need to edit his posts more carefully. Very carefully, in situations like this one.

 

[Gary Compton]

Re: DISCUSSION the 75 Word Challenge JUNE 2011

This sounds suspiciously like an ultimatum aimed at the mods, Gary. We don't look favorably on those, just so you know.



This is an international forum, and I will say that as an American I often feel left out when stories are discussed and people are referring to things that I don't know about and wouldn't know how to go about looking up. I appreciate being included. Where such notes belong, in the story thread or the discussion thread, is a legitimate question, but as part of "the rest of the world" I do appreciate those who are considerate enough to let me feel like I am a part of things. To date, this has never influenced my opinion of a story, but it does make me feel more comfortable on these forums.



I think you either need to edit your posts more carefully, or apologize to pyan and others who have made such inclusions for calling their actions ill-intended. None of us are in a position to pronounce on anyone else's intentions in these matters.

Were we to start discussing intentions, some of the "friendly banter" might have to come under closer scrutiny.

It certainly wasn't an ultimatum. I need as much help as possible with my writing so if notes are allowed then I would like to use them.

If anyone feels left out without explanations/notes then an explanation could be put in the discussion thread maybe. I'll stick to my guns and say I don't think notes should be allowed.

I haven't tried to upset anyone. Doesn't ill-intended mean, it was done without any bad intentions? That's certainly is what I meant so I do apologise if my meaning wasn't clear.

Maybe my grasp of words is not as good as it should be maybe, but no offence to Pyan or anybody was intended.

EDIT: Thanks PM, that's what I meant so Teresa your right, but i am a fledgling writer and even my edits on my edits on my edits don't make up for my lack of ability when using the English language.

 

[RJM Corbet]

Re: DISCUSSION the 75 Word Challenge JUNE 2011

... Man UTD are rubbish at football.

That may be true,but whether or not you support them, they're better at it than anyone else. Except, errrr ... Barcelona (shhh!)

(Good story, Mosaix!)

 

[mosaix]

Re: DISCUSSION the 75 Word Challenge JUNE 2011

Thanks for the mentions Brev and RJM.

And just so as you know, RJM I'm a Manchester City season ticket holder. PM me if you want to discus this further, I fell we have veered off topic too far as it is.

 

[Ursa major]

Re: DISCUSSION the 75 Word Challenge JUNE 2011

And spare a thought for those of us in the UK having to wait for the DVDs of HBO's Game of Thrones: we've already got the sky blues....

 

[Culhwch]

Re: DISCUSSION the 75 Word Challenge JUNE 2011

Or possibly even Kippled.

In my case I think it's more like 'Krippled'. As in, 'I had a pretty good story there before I had to go an kripple it...'

 

[MstrTal]

Re: DISCUSSION the 75 Word Challenge JUNE 2011

But the original comment by mosaix was that after all other factors had been weighed and a decision was otherwise impossible, things like spelling and punctuation would make the difference between stories of equal merit. Better than flipping a coin, I'd say. But how would you decide between stories you thought otherwise equally deserving of your vote, MstrTal?

When it comes down to the brass tax in the end for me its the story that resonates with me the most.

Since it's impossible (I believe) to wholly exclude the effect a title has on your reading of a piece, why not increase the word limit to 80 words, including the title, which would then count as part of the story? That way, those with a knack for clever titles (note that this wouldn't benefit me) will get some use out of them, and the rest of us won't have to go through mental contortions trying to forget the title that's staring us in the face when trying to judge which entry is best.

On challenges why not make it so the titles must be in the form of a Haiku?

 

[Oxman]

Re: DISCUSSION the 75 Word Challenge JUNE 2011

Firstly, Thanks Brev and Paranoid Marvin! Appreciated.

As for rules and regs, it seems to have all got a little serious for what's essentially a fun exercise designed to hone our skills. Admittedly it's not the foot-stomping, mud-slinging, flamefest that you would find on certain other forums, but for a civilsed and erudite site such as this it feels...a little heated.

Personally, I don't mind post-story comments. I can understand if it has a direct effect on the story, or enhances it in some way, but really, I'm not that bothered. If I ever felt that someone was using a comment to stealthily add word content or get a point across they might have failed in 75 words (and I don't recall ever seeing such a comment), then I'd simply omit them from my own shortlist. People are smart enough to make their own decisions. There haven't been any 70 word footnotes in the style of, say, Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell...yet!


If the decision was to be made that it's just the story in any entries, no comments, then I would be perfectly happy with that.

Likewise, title length doesn't bother me. If your title is the message you can't get across in the story, I would feel a bit force-fed, foie-gras style and would strike you from the shortlist!

But if it's a problem, you could omit titles entirely, or indeed make the title the theme for the month, so everyone's entry this month would simply be called "Nourishment". Or maybe the winner picks a genre and TITLE instead of a THEME? Just throwing ideas out there.

And when if comes to formatting and grammar, I'm firmly in favour of the more professional, the better. It's tricksy enough picking a winner. Why go to the trouble of creating a great story, trimming it to 75 words and then not bother to scour the grammar and punctuation? I think theme relevance, format and story strength are all equally important for a winning story.

 

[TheDustyZebra]

Re: DISCUSSION the 75 Word Challenge JUNE 2011

In the matter of titles, I am in favor of leaving it just as it is. I nearly always come up with (what I consider to be) a clever title, and if it gets its meaning across to anyone, more power to it -- if it doesn't, or for people who don't consider titles, oh well. If I ever thought that someone was taking advantage by adding to their story in their title (and I don't recall ever thinking that), then I would just count it against them in the voting. Let the voters decide for themselves. If people think (or know) that some voters are counting long titles against them, they can adjust accordingly -- or not.

As for notes, I don't care either way. I don't feel that the note that started this debate was inappropriate in any way. I did not know that the places were real, might or might not have looked them up to see, read the note and said something like, "ok" to myself about it. Again, let the voters decide, etc.

Polishing issues -- spelling and such -- are important to me, and will decide my vote. When a story is only 75 words, every word counts, and these should be considered final versions that we are voting on, not story ideas and rough drafts. I have on occasion included stories with these issues on my shortlist on the basis of their sheer brilliance, but, painful though it sometimes is, I won't vote for them. What anyone else chooses is, of course, their own business.

 

[Chel]

Re: DISCUSSION the 75 Word Challenge JUNE 2011

I missed about 10 pages or so while wondering how people who work regular hours ever have time for anything except sleeping, eating, working and resting to be able to sleep, eat and work... in other words, I'm working fulltime (as opposed to my normal about 30 hours a week) two weeks more and haven't been focused enough to even read the light-hearted banter this thread usually consists of, not to even mention my attempts to Kiplinise my 75-word story.

My own personal opinion is that the rules should stay as they are. I trust our moderators - if anyone is found to abuse titles or notes, the mods will take action. The tiny explanation that certain places exist neither added to the story nor took anything away from it. It was just that, a tiny note letting people know the places mentioned are really there. Hardly something to make a fuss over! If anything needs to change (and I don't see why it should) we should just remove titles, only because I'm very bad at them. On the off chance that voters do consider the titles I'll most of the time be at a strong disadvantage!

As for grammar, I've lost count of how many times I've not considered voting for a story because of lacking punctuation or spelling errors. Sometimes it's made me sad, since many, many stories have been to my liking in all other ways, but 75 words is so little that I can't make myself vote for sloppy writing - especially as we all see our stories on the screen multiple times while working on them and counting the words and recounting and copying to various word count tools online, not to even mention built-in spell checkers in most computer programs. Even my browser seems to have one, judging by the red dotted lines appearing underneath words such as "online".

I would imagine that if I ever sent something to a publisher in the hopes of reaching lots of readers, I'd like my work to be as close to perfect as possible. Here, on the Internet, we can potentially reach millions upon millions of readers (actually, I checked a site that claims over 2 billion people have Internet access in the world!), so as Aspiring Writers (and published ones, for that matter!) we owe it to ourselves to mind the little details.

 

[Boneman]

Re: DISCUSSION the 75 Word Challenge JUNE 2011

Amen!

I would agree with whomever talked about "a quiet word from the mods" is on the right track. There have been comments -- clever titles -- and bone head mistakes. )

You called?

Like Hoopy, I struggle with titles, and go for the most obvious that springs to mind. The essence of this whole thing is to write 75 words on a given subject, and to be honest I very rarely read the titles, just leap straight into the action, so to speak. But the fact that we do take the challenge so seriously (in writing, not content!) does mean it deserves to be the most even playing field we can make it. And I know the mods will come up with the best solution, that's what they're paid for - I heard an executive lounge, fine wines, lobster thermidor and as many jaffa cakes as they can consume!

And way back when, my short list was so difficult to choose from, (nothing new, there!) that in the end I excluded a story that was tied equal in my mind because there was a typo - it was the only thing that was 'wrong' with the piece and allowed me a 'get-out'. And I still don't know who Chuthlu is...

 

[Culhwch]

Re: DISCUSSION the 75 Word Challenge JUNE 2011

I heard an executive lounge, fine wines, lobster thermidor and as many jaffa cakes as they can consume!

That must just be the head office in the UK - the regional office down here has a small jar of expired vegemite and a broken coffee machine that seems to have been purchased circa 1982...

 

[Boneman]

Re: DISCUSSION the 75 Word Challenge JUNE 2011

That must just be the head office in the UK - the regional office down here has a small jar of expired vegemite and a broken coffee machine that seems to have been purchased circa 1982...

That is tough... unless the expired vegemite is like expired marmite - ten times tastier, and irresistible!