A Dance with Dragons - Discussion - WARNING: SPOILERS!

[juleska]

oh, stannis isn't all that admirable. But he's a great character. Probably my favorite now that robert is dead. He complains endlessly. His wife has a mustache, his daughter grayscale, he believes he's been slighted by every man who ever lived. he has all the personality of a lobster. and he has a glowing sword and a beautiful priestess by his side, telling him that it is the duty of the realm to crown him king of westeros. So he holds the weapon high as he gives completely uninspiring speeches about the responsibilities of his subjects.

bah-hahhaahahahaha!!

 

[juleska]

easily one of the best parts of the book.
should we start a manderley appreciation thread?

Great idea! I just did:

http://www.sffchronicles.co.uk/forum/533194-lord-manderly-adwd-spoilers.html#post1526808

 

[Timba]

Oh, Stannis isn't all that admirable. But he's a great character. Probably my favorite now that Robert is dead. He complains endlessly. His wife has a mustache, his daughter grayscale, he believes he's been slighted by every man who ever lived. He has all the personality of a lobster. And he has a glowing sword and a beautiful priestess by his side, telling him that it is the duty of the realm to crown him king of Westeros. So he holds the weapon high as he gives completely uninspiring speeches about the responsibilities of his subjects.


Okay, I get where you are coming from now and in that sense I agree. He is extremely well drawn and I thoroughly detest him so that does make him a great character as a good book certainly needs "good" bad guys.

 

[Ursa major]

should we start a manderley appreciation thread?

That's definitely not a half-baked idea, KiwiBird.

 

[Daisy-Boo]

Sorry, forgot to add that this is in response to TK-421's response to my original comment.

Jon is dead, me thinks.

I won't accept that until I read it in the books.

Benjen is NOT Coldhands. We would know this by now and Bran would see his uncle in him. He doesn't.

I'm not so sure you're right about Benjen/Coldhands. I seem to remember Bran asking Coldhands why he hides his face all the time. I think there's a reasonable chance Benjen is Coldhands.

Mereen = ancient Rome

I assume you mean the gladiator fights and so on. Well yes, I see the parallels but that still doesn't lessen my disgust at the fighting pits scenes. I wouldn't enjoy reading about the same things set in ancient Rome.

Hodor is toast. Or Bran will become him.

I'd like to think Hodor makes it and remains Hodor. It's a small thing, a little light in all the darkness and horror and I hope that GRRM gives us that.

 

[BaDHaBiTt]

Sorry, forgot to add that this is in response to TK-421's response to my original comment.



I won't accept that until I read it in the books.



I'm not so sure you're right about Benjen/Coldhands. I seem to remember Bran asking Coldhands why he hides his face all the time. I think there's a reasonable chance Benjen is Coldhands.



I assume you mean the gladiator fights and so on. Well yes, I see the parallels but that still doesn't lessen my disgust at the fighting pits scenes. I wouldn't enjoy reading about the same things set in ancient Rome.



I'd like to think Hodor makes it and remains Hodor. It's a small thing, a little light in all the darkness and horror and I hope that GRRM gives us that.

I feel the same way. In previous books GRRM has made no doubts when killing a character.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I'm not so sure you're right about Benjen/Coldhands. I seem to remember Bran asking Coldhands why he hides his face all the time. I think there's a reasonable chance Benjen is Coldhands.

While this is true, I seem to recall that there was a part where Bran did manage to get a decent look at Coldhands, and he still didn't recognize him as Benjen.

I suppose it's possible, but I would be quite surprised if it does turn out to be 'Uncle Ben'. Also, he has spoken to Bran several times, hasn't he? So if he is Ben, did his voice completely change, too? Bran certainly doesn't seem to recognize it.

 

[juleska]

As much as I'd like to think Benjen is Coldhands, I don't think that's the case. Whether he's seen his face or not, I think Bran would know. The kid is timetravelling through trees and warging into wolves and giants. It couldn't be that difficult to see through the shadow of a cloak or at least generate a strong feeling based on instinct.

 

[Daisy-Boo]

Bran isn't infallible and he's still learning. There's a lot he doesn't know. Also, if Coldhands is Benjen, we don't know yet all the ways in which he's changed. We also don't know if Coldhands has the ability to hide his former self from Bran.

In any case, whether or not Coldhands is Benjen, it's an interesting intellectual puzzle trying to figure out his true identity.

 

[Ursa major]

Benjen may have been a warg. The person we know as Coldhands may be someone we don't know who's hosting Benjen. That would explain why Bran didn't recognise him. And given that a warg begins to lose him- or herself when they're in their host for a while, this might be one explanation why Benjen doesn't explain who he is.

 

[southron sword]

I'm pretty sure I'M Coldhands. I just finished the book, finally. I've been absent for a while, but now I can read all these theories and get an idea of what the hell just happened!

 

[Ursa major]

So you're not Spartacus, then?


I expect we'll be trying to work out "what the hell just happened" for quite a few years.

 

[Koopa]

Has anyone on this board discussed what just happened in the Battle for Wintefell?
Cause in my mind it must have been one intriguing battle. With all the strategic traitery.
I'm off a mind Manderly and Stannis won. With Roose possible escaping.

I kinda like the idea thought that Roose overstepped himself, and underestimated the other northern lords, especially Manderly.

 

[True Southron]

I only finished reading ADWD last week and have a LOT of catching up to do on this forum. First of all, let me say I really enjoyed the book. I am not at all concerned about the plot needing to "move forward" too much. I think there is enough information and development in the story or in personalities to keep the book interesting throughout. I do not think that a chapter that does not change the story if it had not been written (something we really have no way of knowing until the story is complete) is a wasted chapter or a waste of paper or whatever. Also, not everything in the plot of a book (especially in a story that will be circa 7000 pages long) needs to be linear, have a purpose or... even if it does have a purpose, succeed in it. I think it is perfectly realistic for Doran Martell to try to secure a marriage alliance with Dany by invoking a (probably inaplicable) marriage pact; and I think it even more realistic for his plans to fail. Whether that is worth telling is a matter of opinion. I think it is. Otherwise, just keep the Martells completely out of the story and have this forum rave about how GRRM dare leave us in the dark about what is happening with one of the major houses on Westeros. Anyway, that's that in terms of liking/disliking what I read or whether anything a fiction writer puts to paper is worth reading.

SECOND issue --and I bring this up because I did not read anything about it on this thread and none of the titles of the other threads (which I have yet to read) seem to be on point: who exactly are the OTHERS and do they have an intelligent purpose other than to advance "zombie-movie style" above the wall? And what types of "others" are there. I believe (I may be wrong) that we've seen at least two types of others: the blue eyed reanimated corpses of any regular human being / beast that is killed by the others and some higher, more sophisticated and intelligent form, generally evil but not necessarily (e.g. Coldhands)...

But something that Tormund Giantsbane (I think) said really caught my eye. He said something (I paraphrase from memory) like: "But how do you fight their masters... how do you fight a mist".

Who are these mist-formed masters of the others, how are they coordinated and what is their ultimate purpose? What is the ultimate purpose of their god, may be the question, but I am thinking more about their civilization / organization, for lack of better words.

 

[Koopa]

Southron, i'm thinking this thread is dead, so if you want a discussion about it, better open up a new thread

 

[True Southron]

Thanks Kiwibird. Someone started a discussion on precisely this topic on the exact same day I posted that message.

 

[natalienoo]

I'm afraid I've just had a "skip to the end" moment after reading the first couple of pages of this thread. I intend to catch myself up with your lovely posts and theories, but having just finished the book itself, this thread is more than my little mind cares to take in at the moment

I enjoyed A Dance with Dragons, and am excited with where the story will go from here. Bran, Brienne and Arya interest me especially. Character queries aside, my only fear is that Martin will get lost himself with all the sub-storylines he's created. This fear is most likely unfounded, but attempting to sift through A Wheel of Time all those years ago has left a lasting uneasiness within me.

 

[Yog-Sothoth]

Did anyone get a chill when they read Ramsay's letter to Jon? GRRM really knows how to create a vicious character that can get under you skin, literally.

Thank god I've never encountered a real person like that.

 

[NenadBulaja]

Thank god I've never encountered a real person like that.

Not to scare you, but you may very well met real person like that, you only didn't realize it! (how's that for sending chill down your spine?)

 

[Oberyn]

Oh, Stannis isn't all that admirable. But he's a great character. Probably my favorite now that Robert is dead. He complains endlessly. His wife has a mustache, his daughter grayscale, he believes he's been slighted by every man who ever lived. He has all the personality of a lobster. And he has a glowing sword and a beautiful priestess by his side, telling him that it is the duty of the realm to crown him king of Westeros. So he holds the weapon high as he gives completely uninspiring speeches about the responsibilities of his subjects.



This is the best explanation I've heard for why Tyrion and Dany could not meet in Dance. They weren't ready for each other. Good point.

stannis is dead and melissandre will support jon snow