Adwd First reactions (spoilers inside)

[vanslyke]

I loved it. However like some people I just got into the series when the HBO show was announced. So I haven't had time to wait and wait and get let down lol. All the books have been quite engrossing for me. ADWD was probably my favourite. I've never gone through so many emotions while reading a book, that's what separates GRRM from other authors.

 

[Icemark]

Speed reading ruined AFFC for me and so I left ADWD lying on the table for a good 3 weeks before starting the read. So, I've just finished and I am very pleased with the whole book.

The first half didn't seem to move quickly enough, but I think I've been starved of feeling the shock and horror of having a favourite character killed off.... The second half moved along nicely - and I think we're in for a cracker in the next book.

• I like Tyrion more than ever - his POV always provide a good read.
• Dany was annoying, but I think she needs to make mistakes in order to learn how to be a really good queen (that's if she doesn't get mowed down in the next one).
• I knew Jon had it coming, but I didn't think he would be "killed" just yet..
• I hope an Other gets Ramsay and Queen Selyse

 

[BaDHaBiTt]

Regarding the HBO show: They must make ONE season of the last two books, there can be no other way.

 

[JagLover]

Regarding the HBO show: They must make ONE season of the last two books, there can be no other way.

Indeed

It is not even a matter of personal preference, what the book fans would like to see or not, but just the logic of the medium.

Firstly the limitations of both budget and the ability of audiences to identify the characters which limits the number of speaking parts. Season 2 will already have one of the largest cast lists of any TV show and that has far fewer POV's and the minor characters they interact with than AFFC & ADWD.

Secondly there is the need to finish in a realistic timescale. The most any series with a continous narrative can expect is 7 seasons IMO, and probably less. I.E three before AFFC & ADWD and at least two after, hence only one season can be allocated.

Thirdly two seasons split in half the way AFFC & ADWD were would not work on the screen. The alternative would be a Kalediscope as each episode can only allocate a few minutes to each major charcater.

What I believe they will do (if they reach that far). Is excise entire plotlines. Most of the Iron islands, the Aegon storyline entirely, most of the events in Mereen etc.

A season with Jon as LC, Sansa in the vale, Arya in training, Cersei ruling and making a mess of things, Tyrion's adventures (picking up his storyline at the brothel where he was captured) and a restricted Mereen plotline. Would limit the plot to already established characters and actors, while offering a decent season's worth of development.

 

[Mesanna]

I wonder, if they combine AFFC and ADWD, if that will put us back in the situation where the TV show will start to get ahead of GRRM's writing?

Or, maybe elements of ASOS might be pushed back into the following series (i.e. combined with events in AFFC), though I've no idea how it'll work with the timeline, I'm just spouting off the top of my head! You would think that they'd want to end the Storm of Swords season with the Red Wedding, cos that's the sort of mighty cliffhanger that goes down so well in TV land.

 

[BaDHaBiTt]

I wonder, if they combine AFFC and ADWD, if that will put us back in the situation where the TV show will start to get ahead of GRRM's writing?

Or, maybe elements of ASOS might be pushed back into the following series (i.e. combined with events in AFFC), though I've no idea how it'll work with the timeline, I'm just spouting off the top of my head! You would think that they'd want to end the Storm of Swords season with the Red Wedding, cos that's the sort of mighty cliffhanger that goes down so well in TV land.

That depends on GRRM

ACOK -2012
ASOS - 2013
AFFC-ADWD 2014

So, GRRM will have to deliver TWOW early in 2014....

 

[JagLover]

I wonder, if they combine AFFC and ADWD, if that will put us back in the situation where the TV show will start to get ahead of GRRM's writing?

Or, maybe elements of ASOS might be pushed back into the following series (i.e. combined with events in AFFC), though I've no idea how it'll work with the timeline, I'm just spouting off the top of my head! You would think that they'd want to end the Storm of Swords season with the Red Wedding, cos that's the sort of mighty cliffhanger that goes down so well in TV land.

I think it is more likely they will bring some of a ASOS foward into Season 2, particularly some of the Dany storyline. The red wedding isn't a cliffhanger but an ending of the sort of story you thought it was going to be. To end on that note, and not on the note of optimism as Twin is killed and Tyrion departs for the east, is a very bleak ending and might lose allot of viewers.

As for them getting ahead of GRRM if they do condense things (which I think they must) then AWOW might be out before they reach that season, but they will probably outpace him after that.

 

[The Imp]

There is no guarantee that GOT will follow aSoIaF faithfully. We all hope that it does, at least until aFFC, but according to GRRM, the HBO people can do whatever they like. He has zero control over them. He also talked about the butterfly effect, and how decisions they have made in doing the series on TV may cause a disparity in the two storylines. He mentioned the killing of Jhago in the series being an example.

We know that Jaime will have a much larger part in season two than he does in aCoK. That may affect the story as well. Some brienne's stuff may very well be cut, as well as some of the Arya material, but I don't think even the Davids know the material they will move or exclude at this point, at least not past season 2.

corectted Jhogo which should have read Jhago

 

[Mesanna]

Just read on Winter is Coming that the two Davids, who produce Game of Thrones, have said (presuming they're green-lighted for Season 3), that Storm of Swords will NOT be a single season.

Read the article here:

http://winter-is-coming.net/2011/08/interview-with-benioff-and-weiss-about-season-two-and-beyond/

 

[Werthead]

That depends on GRRM

ACOK -2012
ASOS - 2013
AFFC-ADWD 2014

So, GRRM will have to deliver TWOW early in 2014....

At the moment it's more like:

ACoK - 2012
ASoS Part 1 - 2013
ASoS Part 2 - 2014
AFFC/ADWD Part 1 - 2015
AFFC/ADWD Part 2 - 2016

So GRRM would have to finish the book by early 2016, which is probably more than doable. Of course, this would then mean having the final book ready by 2017 or 2018 (if TWoW is also split into two seasons) which much less likely.

However, we also know that GRRM has given an outline of the rest of the story to the producers, so the series will proceed ahead at its own pace regardless of the books being finished or not.

 

[juleska]

However, we also know that GRRM has given an outline of the rest of the story to the producers, so the series will proceed ahead at its own pace regardless of the books being finished or not.

Oh I like that not at all.....I certainly hope it doesn't come to that. The last thing I'd want to see is a television producer take the story in a direction GRRM didn't intend.

 

[The Imp]

However, we also know that GRRM has given an outline of the rest of the story to the producers, so the series will proceed ahead at its own pace regardless of the books being finished or not.

That would dispel doubts that some people have had as to whther or not GRRM knows where the story is going and/or has lost control of the narrative.

 

[mtzGr]

So I visit these forums on occasion to read, but unfortunately I cannot remember my email or password to my previous account (Faustus). Anyways, I had to chime in once the new book finally came out and I got through it.

Best moment: Jon taking Slynt's head.
Worst moment: Jon being stabbed in the last chapter.

Jon beheading Janos Slynt just got me so excited for the rest of the book, which really dragged around the middle unfortunately. Like others have mentioned, Dany was almost unbearable to read. I could not even read her last chapter I had become so disgusted; I skimmed it for the meat and moved on. She went from being one of my favorite to a character I hoped George would off. Her chapters became boring and I would let out and audible sigh every time her name popped up in big letters.

Bran, whos pov had previously been a bit like Dany's in the previous books was really interesting. It would have been nice to have more, but I guess not a lot was going on--OH EXCEPT BRAN BEING ABLE TO SEE EVERYTHING. I don't see why George didn't use this ability of his more to flesh out the other stories. I feel like a lot could have been omitted (for the better) with Bran eavesdropping on the rest of the world. Cersei's chapter when she is walking through the streets is an example of one that just doesn't need to be there.

Tyrion is still the best. I always enjoy reading his POV, even though I feel all the twists and turns hes gone through have been a bit much. I think if George had left him with Aegon and fleshed out the conquests back in the Reach it would have made for a better story, Connington's pov could have been omitted because he was far more interesting from Tyrion's perspective. But I don't presume to write his stories for him, I'm grateful for his work.

Still love Arya, I wish he'd just write a separate book about her--400 pages of her adventures in Braavos between now and the next book, then just have her reappear into the storyline, where ever he is planning to bring her back (which he HAS to bring her back).

Now, to the point of this book that is leaving a bad taste in my mouth.

CHEAP PLOT DEVICES

Now Jon is one of my favorite characters in the series, but do not think I am being emotionally biased; I didn't cry when he was stabbed, my heart didn't break, and I didn't destroy the book in frustration. I feel slighted. I feel like I'm watching Dragon Ball Z or the old Batman television series where they just stop the action and progression of the plot and just drop CLIFFHANGER right at the end of the show so you'll tune in next week to see what happens.

I'm not against cliffhangers, I'm against BAD cliffhangers. "Stannis is dead" is a great way to end this book. If I had started out reading the next book, and Jon had rallied all the wildings to his cause against Ramsey, AND THEN BEEN STABBED IN THE FIRST CHAPTER, I would have been absorbed. I would have been going crazy. I would have had a goofy smile on my face and been walking around in disbelief before reading the next chapter.

Instead, the next book will either be Jon waking up to see Melisandre, or another Melisandre pov where she is taking care of Jon while hes asleep. I mean, this story just turned into a daytime tv soap opera. This chapter will probably turn into a Ghost pov to avoid this, but Mel will still there.

I think I'm more happy that it was published and he can start fleshing out the rest of the story than I am with the actual content. I still enjoyed reading it for the most part, and eagerly await the next installment in 2020.

Anyways, If you bother to give this wall o' text a read, thanks, I enjoy reading a lot of what you guys write. You keep the series alive when I sometimes think it dead.

 

[The Imp]

So I visit these forums on occasion to read, but unfortunately I cannot remember my email or password to my previous account (Faustus). Anyways, I had to chime in once the new book finally came out and I got through it.

Best moment: Jon taking Slynt's head.
Worst moment: Jon being stabbed in the last chapter.

Jon beheading Janos Slynt just got me so excited for the rest of the book, which really dragged around the middle unfortunately. Like others have mentioned, Dany was almost unbearable to read. I could not even read her last chapter I had become so disgusted; I skimmed it for the meat and moved on. She went from being one of my favorite to a character I hoped George would off. Her chapters became boring and I would let out and audible sigh every time her name popped up in big letters.

Bran, whos pov had previously been a bit like Dany's in the previous books was really interesting. It would have been nice to have more, but I guess not a lot was going on--OH EXCEPT BRAN BEING ABLE TO SEE EVERYTHING. I don't see why George didn't use this ability of his more to flesh out the other stories. I feel like a lot could have been omitted (for the better) with Bran eavesdropping on the rest of the world. Cersei's chapter when she is walking through the streets is an example of one that just doesn't need to be there.

Tyrion is still the best. I always enjoy reading his POV, even though I feel all the twists and turns hes gone through have been a bit much. I think if George had left him with Aegon and fleshed out the conquests back in the Reach it would have made for a better story, Connington's pov could have been omitted because he was far more interesting from Tyrion's perspective. But I don't presume to write his stories for him, I'm grateful for his work.

Still love Arya, I wish he'd just write a separate book about her--400 pages of her adventures in Braavos between now and the next book, then just have her reappear into the storyline, where ever he is planning to bring her back (which he HAS to bring her back).

Now, to the point of this book that is leaving a bad taste in my mouth.

CHEAP PLOT DEVICES

Now Jon is one of my favorite characters in the series, but do not think I am being emotionally biased; I didn't cry when he was stabbed, my heart didn't break, and I didn't destroy the book in frustration. I feel slighted. I feel like I'm watching Dragon Ball Z or the old Batman television series where they just stop the action and progression of the plot and just drop CLIFFHANGER right at the end of the show so you'll tune in next week to see what happens.

I'm not against cliffhangers, I'm against BAD cliffhangers. "Stannis is dead" is a great way to end this book. If I had started out reading the next book, and Jon had rallied all the wildings to his cause against Ramsey, AND THEN BEEN STABBED IN THE FIRST CHAPTER, I would have been absorbed. I would have been going crazy. I would have had a goofy smile on my face and been walking around in disbelief before reading the next chapter.

Instead, the next book will either be Jon waking up to see Melisandre, or another Melisandre pov where she is taking care of Jon while hes asleep. I mean, this story just turned into a daytime tv soap opera. This chapter will probably turn into a Ghost pov to avoid this, but Mel will still there.

I think I'm more happy that it was published and he can start fleshing out the rest of the story than I am with the actual content. I still enjoyed reading it for the most part, and eagerly await the next installment in 2020.

Anyways, If you bother to give this wall o' text a read, thanks, I enjoy reading a lot of what you guys write. You keep the series alive when I sometimes think it dead.

I agree with most of what you said. I especially think that the placement of the Jon stabbing made all the difference, although I don't think doing it was a cheap trick as much it is just GRRM's style. It would have been MUCH better if the next book opened with that scene.

i'll disagree slightly with Tyrion, who has always been one of my favorite characters, and probably still is, but that was an awful lot of writing on GRRM's part when all he ad to show for it (correct me if I'm wrong)

Tyrion learns to ride a pig, might have Greyscale, and becomes a sell sword. He also has some poison mushrooms in his boot. Did I leave anything important out?

 

[Ursa major]

Tyrion learns to ride a pig, might have Greyscale, and becomes a sell sword. He also has some poison mushrooms in his boot. Did I leave anything important out?

Tyrion's quite good at playing cyvasse. It might come in useful if he gets to visit Sunspear and environs.

 

[The Imp]

Tyrion's quite good at playing cyvasse. It might come in useful if he gets to visit Sunspear and environs.

but he already knew how to play.

I guess He also learns what it is to be a slave, and not be able to wave his "golden wand' to fix every problem he encounters. I think he will be more resourceful and perhaps more empathetic as the story moves forward.

 

[Ursa major]

As Tyrion learning something wasn't really involved in the phrase,

He also has some poison mushrooms in his boot

I simply assumed that you were also referring to what we have come to know about Tyrion.

 

[mtzGr]

I agree with most of what you said. I especially think that the placement of the Jon stabbing made all the difference, although I don't think doing it was a cheap trick as much it is just GRRM's style. It would have been MUCH better if the next book opened with that scene.

i'll disagree slightly with Tyrion, who has always been one of my favorite characters, and probably still is, but that was an awful lot of writing on GRRM's part when all he ad to show for it (correct me if I'm wrong)

Tyrion learns to ride a pig, might have Greyscale, and becomes a sell sword. He also has some poison mushrooms in his boot. Did I leave anything important out?

Oh I completely agree with you, if he had stayed with Aegon and gone to Westeros with him I think it would have been a much better story than him essentially doing nothing but getting into those situations that Tyrion always seems to find himself in (and thrive in). His inner monologue and dialogue with everyone is so enjoyable to read, that I guess regardless of what hes doing I look forward to reading his chapters and knowing he'll still be the same old Tyrion.

 

[The Imp]

As Tyrion learning something wasn't really involved in the phrase,

I simply assumed that you were also referring to what we have come to know about Tyrion.

I was Ura. Maybe something major will come of all of the small pieces in ADWD.

 

[The Imp]

I was Ura. Maybe something major will come of all of the small pieces in ADWD.

Sorry about the typo Ursa