The Letter [SPOILERS - ADWD]

Please direct your attention to comments 46 through 51 in this very thread. It would appear that "most" were not as aware or certain as you are. I agree with you assessment though, Mance=Abel.

Ok. The whole thing about why Mance would help Jon... Well, Jon save his life and his son's life. Mel was going to feed Mance to the fire before Jon kept telling her how useful he would be. And then Jon risk his own neck by sending Mance son away and letting the Wildling through the gates...

Don't forget... That was the Wildling true intent... To get a wall between them and the Others... Jon helped the Wildling when every one else wanted to leave them to die... And they all would have died if not for Jon. Mance know that...

And Mance like Jon... Most of the wildling do at least better than most crows...

The letter is Ramsey desperation... He need Stannis family as hostages...

And Ramsey said "bring back my bride"... Not "bring back your sister"... He think Stannis sent Jeyne to the wall. And he know Jon would know that's Jeyne and not Arya Stark...

If Ramsey would have won, he would be marching to the wall to take Jeyne back... He whole grip on the North depends on that...

I can't see him and especially Roose just sending a raven for something so important... They will definitely make sure all who know the truth don't live to tell anyone... And Jon would know too much...
 
If ravens "work" more or less like pigeons, each individual raven can only go to one place, right?

(I don't know much about pigeons either but I think that's the way they work... you remove them from one place and, when freed, they fly back instinctively to the place from which they were removed... is that it?)

I know Maesters are usually the keepers of ravens, but I doubt that the training of ravens is a great secret known only to them. Wildlings probably use ravens, too, and they have no Maesters. Mance, as a jack-of-all-trades, could well be capable of opening the cage marked "Castle Black", tying a note to the raven in it, letting it fly and then getting the hell out of Winterfell.

How the crows work is not explained in detail that I can remember, but I think they work quite differently than homing pigeons. Ravens seem to be able to fly to whatever castle Maester's need them to fly to, such as when Robb was campaigning in the west and Catelyn was sending ravens to different castles trying to get messages to him.

I also think back to Brandon meeting the three-eyed crow and learning the history of the crows of Westeros, that they used to be people who had basically warged into them when they died, and that they used to actually speak the messages that they were sent with. The skill that was lost was not flying where they were told to go, but that they can no longer speak the message on the receiving end. There is some magic, skill, or trick to whatever they do to get the Ravens to fly where they are needed.

All that being said, this is a world that is created completely within the imagination of the awkward looking overweight man pictured in the back cover of the book in front of me with a scraggly beard and wearing a sailboat captain's hat. Laws, rules, physics, biology, magic... is all dependent on what the author decides it is.
 
Hello Everyone,
I'm a "newbie" around here and after reading so many fantastic theories, I finally worked up the nerve to say something. Keep up the great work, just reading everyone's POV helps me to understand so much more!

Welcome Malieta...
 
Hello Everyone,
I'm a "newbie" around here and after reading so many fantastic theories, I finally worked up the nerve to say something. Keep up the great work, just reading everyone's POV helps me to understand so much more!
Welcome :)

I am guessing that you've finished the books as you've been reading the theories?

Stop by the game threads (Who Said That, WHo would think such a thing, and TriviA) and feel free to join in
 
I did not post on this thread before because I did not have any decent ideas, but I thought of something today. I began a reread of AFFC yesterday and my thoughts raced ahead to events on the Wall and I considered this Letter.

Your false king is dead, *******. He and all his host were smashed in seven days of battle. I have his magic sword. Tell his red whore.

Your false king's friends are dead. Their heads upon the walls of Winterfell. Come see them, *******. Your false king lied, and so did you. You told the world you burned theKing-Beyond-the-Wall. Instead you sent him to Winterfell to steal my bride from me.

I will have my bride back. If you want Mance Rayer back, come and get him. I have him in a cage for all thenorth to see, proof of your lies. The cage is cold, but I have made him a warm cloak from the skins of the six whores who came with him to Winterfell.

I want my bride back. I want the false king's queen. I want his daughter and his red witch. I want this wildling princess. I want his little prince, the wildling babe. And I want my Reek. Send them to me, *******, and I will not trouble you or your black crows. Keep them from me, and I will cut out your *******'s heart and eat it.

Ramsay Bolton,
Trueborn Lord of Winterfell.

I don't have a definitive answer, just some thoughts.

This letter prompted Jon to change his plans. Radically. After all he's been through in the Night's Watch, he foreswore himself that quickly? This whole story sounds fishy to me.

First thought, the person who sent the letter had an agenda to change Jon's plans from bringing more wildlings south. The sender could write. Could the sender be Bowen Marsh, the Lord Steward? He has charge of the stewards and thus the ravens, if he says a message arrived by raven who can gainsay him? He wanted Jon's plan cancelled... and Jon did it.

Second, I thought of Melisandre. I'd never considered her before. I was excited to share this thought with you... but on page one of this thread a number of people had already mentioned her. I thought of Melisandre because of the list of people in the letter. The sender desired the delivery of his bride (Arya/Jeyne), the false king's queen (Selyse), the false king's daughter (Shireen), the false king's red witch (Melisandre), the wildling princess (Val), the wildling babe (Mance's son/Craster's son), and Reek. Why these people? Well, if the sender is Ramsay, then I guess that Arya and Reek are obvious, while Selyse, Shireen, and Melisandre hold dear places in Stannis' heart and plans, and Val and the babe are hostages. But this list includes the only four people in the North of known/supposed royal blood besides Mance. Arya is Robb's sister, Shireen is Stannis' daughter, the child is Mance's son, and Reek is Balon's son and Euron's nephew. Selyse and Val would be included in the list to handle the children. But why Melisandre? Could the letter have been manufactured by Melisandre to get Shireen and the Mance's son away from Castle Black so she can burn them?

Re: The Letter

Whoever sent the letter must know the following (some of which are widely known, some of which are not):
  • that Stannis has a "magic" sword and is close to Melisandre;
  • that Mance was meant to have been burnt but wasn't;
  • that Mance's mission was to rescue Arya;
  • that Arya was freed, at least for a while;
  • that Mance had six helpers and that Ramsay would be prepared to flay them;
  • that Jon holds Dalla;
  • that Jon is holding Mance's child (which isn't true).
The oddest request is for Mance's child. Why would Ramsay want him? Mance would, as would Melisandre (at least according to Jon), but why would anyone else? (And why would Ramsay call the child a prince?) Solve this and one might work out who sent the letter.
The only information, as Ursa major has kindly listed for us, that Melisandre may not know is the importance of Reek to Ramsay or the fact that he's missing. But mayhaps she saw these in her flames.

The third thing that I'll mention is that the language should give us a clue as to the sender or at least the author wanted Jon to make the assumption that Ramsay sent the letter. Why is the letter addressed to B*stard and why does the sender call the recipent b*astard another four times? Is Ramsay gloating about his elevation to legitimacy? Jon introduced the concept that bastardy was his motivation when he first met Mance and Mance used it repeatedly since the Fist of the First Men. The words whore and whores are used... are we sure Tywin did not write this? ;) False King is used four times and Stannis' name is not. Mance is mentioned by his full name, Mance Rayder, and even given his full title King-Beyond-the-Wall. The sender also used the term black crows, only wildlings use it. After claiming to have Mance in a cage and to have skinned six women, why did the threated to cut out the *******'s heart and eat it? Why not skin him? The sender also encourages the reader to talk to Melisandre about Stannis' sword.

It seems that at face value, the letter is from Ramsay. But I think we are to suspect Mance from the information and the language.
 
I just thought of another clue that points to the writer not being Ramsay - apologies if this has been said before, but I haven't been reading the entire thread.

Two of the people he wants sending are Reek and Jeyne/Arya. Where are those two as of the end of ADWD? With Stannis. It's unlikely that they could have escaped Stannis in their condition, and with the weather the way it is, so if Ramsay had truly defeated Stannis, then those two would be either in his power, or confirmed dead.
 
@MemoryTale do not ever apologize in this form. I have been posting here for 17 years. I can’t remember at all. Other members have pointed out that I have contradicted myself. I have posted contradictory theories in the same thread, over the course of years.

You made a great point regarding Ramsay’s knowledge of Theon and Jeyne’s whereabouts. That is, unless they were lost in the blizzard. But I do not think that Martin would let them die in that manner after all the effort of presenting Theon’sconvoluted story arc.

I think that we are supposed to conclude that the letter was from Mance. But the timing of it seems suspect. Jon’s reaction to the letter led him right into Marsh’s knives.
 
Reread Jon’s last chapter in ADWD today. I think that the specifics mentioned by @Ursa major are absolutely correct. Those facts are known by the sender of the letter, and all could be known only by Mance, Marsh, and Melisandre. Sure, Ramsay might know these facts. But only if he has tortured Mance and/or the women… which he will logically do, but we have no confirmation yet in the narrative.

And I think that there is one more important aspect to remember… The chapters from these books are not necessarily in chronological order. We read Jon’s last chapter after we read Theon’s and Asha’s last chapters, but that does not mean the letter arrived after Theon’s escape.
 

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