Lady Stark from A Song of Ice and Fire?!

[The Imp]

I was posting on internet message boards a 14,400 baud modem was considered ultra high speed. Think of me as GRRM, but cuter . I've seen thousands of trolls along the way, and they all have one thing in common- they need attention at any cost, and have found that the easiest way to get fast attention is to get other posters aggravated. They have no intellectual curiosity, they have nothing good to say about what the board's focus is.

I don't expect anyone here to love every word that GRRM writes, and certaionly some people are more naturally glass half empty people as opposed to glass half full, but if you're posting on a board that is about the writing of JK Rowling and you hate the Harry Potter series, it's kind of pointless to keep posting once you've made your initial point, because anything you say after that will just be a re-hashing of that original point, just usiung different examples, and saying it in different ways.

It remains to be seen if this person is a troll or just a bored teenager. i'm betting on the latter. If he continues posting we'll find out. For now, i've already given this guy WAY too much attention, which is, after all, what he's looking for (or she).

 

[Angrybushpig]

Hey guys

Just to clarify: I'm not trolling. I loved the first few books.

This last one has been a bit of a snoozer though. As to wanting attention, nope, I just wanted to see if anyone else thought that the Lady Stark angle seems to be a bit of a curveball/loose end.

Thanks to those who responded - to those who made 80% of the thread into troll discussion... I don't know what to say, maybe you do like the attention.

Anyway I'm not a kid, and I don't remember a lot of the specific ASOI&F plot details as I've read the books over a period of years and can't recall everything.

Hopefully the tv series will be good next season, and we won't get hit in the face by surprise Hodor 'body part'.

I'd also like to point out that I havn't had a nasty word to say about a single person here, a heap of you have jumped to conclusions and called me a kid, made references to going to school, called me attention seeker, troll, etc. C'mon guys. Also i didn't post this thread in the RR Martin section to get a rise - someone moved it to here.

Anyway, cheers guys

 

[Angrybushpig]

As to my Mistborn comment - I honestly just don't like/cant read them. I have a boxed set brand new, such a waste. I also had a bit of trouble getting into The name of the wind - I'm about 100 pages in, can anyone tell me if it picks up?

I'm also reading Taliesim by Stephen Lawhead, it started slow but I am quite enjoying it.

Flame away

 

[C Of K]

Hey guys

Just to clarify: I'm not trolling. I loved the first few books.

This last one has been a bit of a snoozer though. As to wanting attention, nope, I just wanted to see if anyone else thought that the Lady Stark angle seems to be a bit of a curveball/loose end.

I find it funny that her resurrection would bring such doubt, and yet no doubt has been cast upon the White Walkers. They haven't made many appearances, and the magic that brings them back from the dead hasn't been explained either.

Resurrection has been a huge theme throughout the story. It only makes sense that it would occur to a pivotal character like Lady Stark. Since she was killed, and raised, George Martin has used her sparingly, but she has made more than one appearance. As has been pointed out, she was not the first person to rise from the dead. Waymar Royce was actually the first if you don't count the nameless wildlings that Will saw. Beric Dondarion falls in as one of the early resurrections. Even before him, though, there was the White Walker that attacked Jeor Mormont. There have been others of course, and there will probably be more still.

 

[Koopa]

As to my Mistborn comment - I honestly just don't like/cant read them. I have a boxed set brand new, such a waste. I also had a bit of trouble getting into The name of the wind - I'm about 100 pages in, can anyone tell me if it picks up?

I'm also reading Taliesim by Stephen Lawhead, it started slow but I am quite enjoying it.

Flame away

I've just read Rothfuss his first book, and from beginning to end i didn't think it was that good. It was mediocre. The first 100 pages are indeed a drag, it does pick up when he finally starts telling the tale of his life. But even then i wasn't impressed.

 

[Angrybushpig]

When Jon died it really didn't have an impact on me. i just thought "Oh well, he'll probably just turn up again after being resurrected".

I think resurrection just cheapens the death of pivotal characters.

 

[mtzGr]

I think resurrection just cheapens the death of pivotal characters.

I feel like GRRM's use of dragons makes the entire series unbelievable.

 

[Angrybushpig]

I feel like GRRM's use of dragons makes the entire series unbelievable.

Ok so let me guess people are only allowed to post how awesome the books are, or only post stuff that you agree with.

Whats the point of even killing people off if they can come back at any time?

 

[juleska]

I feel like GRRM's use of dragons makes the entire series unbelievable.

I, on the other hand, feel like his use of dragons makes anything possible.

 

[viZion]

Ok so let me guess people are only allowed to post how awesome the books are, or only post stuff that you agree with.

Whats the point of even killing people off if they can come back at any time?

I've also voiced the opinion that resurrection would be a lame way to save Jon. I've also repeatedly called Bran boring and shared other assorted unpopular opinions. There is tons of negative criticism of GRRM and the series in this forum posted by many people. However, the reason people are reacting negatively to your commentary is because you come off like an ass; like you're looking for a fight. Like I said, take that to westeros.org or some other place where they love to get into flame wars.

 

[Angrybushpig]

I've also voiced the opinion that resurrection would be a lame way to save Jon. I've also repeatedly called Bran boring and shared other assorted unpopular opinions. There is tons of negative criticism of GRRM and the series in this forum posted by many people. However, the reason people are reacting negatively to your commentary is because you come off like an ass; like you're looking for a fight. Like I said, take that to westeros.org or some other place where they love to get into flame wars.

Boring post. Thanks for posting, look forward to your next one, always enjoy them.

 

[juleska]

Boring post. Thanks for posting, look forward to your next one, always enjoy them.

[sarcasm] Ah yes....how wrong we all were to judge you so quickly. [/sarcasm]

 

[C Of K]

When Jon died it really didn't have an impact on me. i just thought "Oh well, he'll probably just turn up again after being resurrected".

I think resurrection just cheapens the death of pivotal characters.

Resurrection always does that to some degree in any work of fiction where there are resurrections. It can't be helped. But does that mean authors shouldn't employ resurrection in their stores?

The trick is to minimize the negatives, and try to create positives through the use of it. Personally, I think George RR Martin handled this admirably from the very beginning, as he let all his readers know from the very first prologue that his story would involve people rising from the dead. Ever since, he has been carrying this theme toward a logical end.

 

[soulsinging]

What's going on here?!

Is it just me or does it seem like Martin is losing the plot?

Having almost no magic in the series and then all of a sudden Catelyn Stark pops up briefly after returning from the dead and then not mentioned again....I think George is just randomly making things up and forgetting them.

It's not just you. After book 4 I decided not to read anymore until the series is done becos it seems very clear to me that GRRM HAS lost control of his plot and is running into Robert Jordan-esque issues of exploring every detour he found interesting at the expense of moving the story forward.

 

[soulsinging]

edited so as not to beat a dead horse.

 

[soulsinging]

...it's kind of you to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I just have to wonder....if someone has nothing positive to say about a book they've read (or not read, as this thread would indicate) then why would one bother to seek out an internet community full of fans to express their displeasure, unless one were trolling? Whenever I read something I don't like, I simply don't waste my time talking about it. I move on and read something else.

What if it's not that simple? What if you truly enjoyed the series to start but feel like it's been tanking and are hoping someone can offer a perspective you hadn't considered that might convince you to keep going forward.

I hated the Star Wars prequels. Does that mean I cannot have loved the originals? Does that mean I cannot criticize what Lucas did with his last 3 films as utter trash unworthy of the heights he'd already achieved? Am I not allowed to say the Lucas has lost his mind and his way and is now producing vastly inferior work to the movies I knew and loved from him before? Of course not.

It was one critique of a very particular aspect of the work that seems reasonable to me. Seems like a bit of a stretch to presume he has nothing positive to say. Again, does me saying Jar Jar Binks was one of the worst characters in film mean that I'd never say anything positive about the duel on Bespin?

*edit* having read some of his comments elsewhere though, you all may be right. Dude's pretty combative and insulting.

 

[The Imp]

What if it's not that simple? What if you truly enjoyed the series to start but feel like it's been tanking and are hoping someone can offer a perspective you hadn't considered that might convince you to keep going forward.

I hated the Star Wars prequels. Does that mean I cannot have loved the originals? Does that mean I cannot criticize what Lucas did with his last 3 films as utter trash unworthy of the heights he'd already achieved? Am I not allowed to say the Lucas has lost his mind and his way and is now producing vastly inferior work to the movies I knew and loved from him before? Of course not.

It was one critique of a very particular aspect of the work that seems reasonable to me. Seems like a bit of a stretch to presume he has nothing positive to say. Again, does me saying Jar Jar Binks was one of the worst characters in film mean that I'd never say anything positive about the duel on Bespin?

*edit* having read some of his comments elsewhere though, you all may be right. Dude's pretty combative and insulting.

The difference between the Satr Wars prequels and books 4 and 5 of ASOIAF is the prequels were really lousy. Even the most die-hard Stars Wars fan probably wouldn't watch any of the 3 after seeing them once.

While I don't think that AFFC and ADWD measure up to the first 3 books of the series, I still liked AFFC well enough to read it 3 times 9possibly 4, i can't say for certain0, and I am currently re-reading ADWD, which i am enjoying more the second time around.

Please don't take this the wrong way, as I know that you have many positive things to say, when anyone, you me, etc, starts posting in broad generalities about an entire book, there isn't a lot to say other than X was boring, the author lost control of the plot/meandered, Y was pointless, the author wasted an enormous number of pages on Z, etc.

The truth of the matter is this is GRRM's story, and he's telling it in the best way that he can. He can also tell it any way that he wants. As fans/readers of the story we can choose to either embrace what he writes or reject it and move on. Some have said they won't read the series until it's done. that's fair, but it's beating the proverbial dead horse to continue to complain about that and/or the lack of (fill in the blank) in the last two books.

Just as a final note, i think the fact that the first 3 books were so good has resulted in unjustified animosity towards GRRM because he hasn't been able to achieve the same level in the last 2. I also think that this animosity has been further fueled by many people being angry that he took as long as he did to publish ADWD. While i recognize those as legitimate complaints, I still maintain that GRRM on his worst day is better than most authors on their best. I also think that while he didn't move the story far enough forward in ADWD, we have to remember that much of the book happens in parallel with AFFC. I agree that he could have written shorter versions of AFFC and ADWD, but that's water under the bridge. I feel very confident that he has set his pieces up properly and that TWOW will be a great book. I'm just not convinced that he can end the story in two books.

 

[dragonstone]

It's not just that the OP was agressive, he was agressive and factually incorrect. He claimed there had been "almost no magic" throughout the series - when in fact the opposite was true. Then he made a poor attempt at humour by suggesting GRRM was going senile and forgetting things when in fact he was the only one forgetting things.

 

[Ursa major]

Whatever the OP posted, and why, he definitely won't be coming back to defend his position (not even as unAngrybushpig ), so there's absolutely no need to debate him or his motives any further.


While I think we all know that most of his post had no basis in fact, there is obviously a live issue concerning GRRM's control of the plot (well, multiple plots) of ASoIaF, so please feel free to continue discussing that in this thread.

 

[Koopa]

He banned?