Oh no, not a religious discussion

[the smiling weirwood]

What is meant by "real"? That their followers display supernatural powers that they purport to derive from their deities?

We have seen that magic exists independent of religion in this world, so there's no way to know whether any of the supernaturally powered religious people are actually getting their power from their god or not.

It could also be that all the gods are real. If people believe in them, they are real in that they motivate people's actions. They might also be real in a more metaphysical sense.

There's also the question of what we can use as evidence of a deity's existence. Certainly, it might appear that R'hllor is "real" but what if it's just a hoax perpetrated by a bunch of sorcerers? Conversely, we see no supernatural evidence of the Seven, but it may be that they have been holding things together behind the scenes. There's really no way to know for sure without GRRM coming right out and saying it.

 

[NenadBulaja]

Had a bit of discussion with Ursa Major on different thread about something similar.

My thoughts about religion in ASoIaF is that waning of magic gave rise to the religions that forced social component over miracle work, like the Seven Faced God. But with returning of magic, R'hllor, Old Gods and similar deities are gaining on strength and popularity.

And another discussion with The Imp made me wonder - what about The Great Other. He is presumed pure evil, while his motives, powers and similar remain hidden. May it be that GRRM suddenly pools this ace from his sleeve, revealing something completely different than what everybody believes.

Any thoughts about that?

 

[Ursa major]

Because ASoIaF is so strongly POV based, so that there is no omniscient viewpoint at all, we have only heard about the Great Other from those who are naturally disposed to denounce that (supposed) deity. We have no independent evidence or testimony.

So as I've posted elsewhere, we don't really know (thought most, I assume, would believe) that the Great Other and its followers are truly the evil beings we've been told. And given that ASoIaF has very few consistently evil characters/entities, there's the chance that things aren't as we may assume.



In fact, thinking of GRRM's comments about the ending being bittersweet.... It could be that we finally discover that the Great Other is a force for good, on a mission to haul the world from the grasp of evil (e.g. all that slavery and suffering), just as we watch that best last hope being defeated (probably by the people we've seen up until now as the good guys).

.

 

[NenadBulaja]

Because ASoIaF is so strongly POV based, so that there is no omniscient viewpoint at all, we have only heard about the Great Other from those who are naturally disposed to denounce that (supposed) deity. We have no independent evidence or testimony.

So as I've posted elsewhere, we don't really know (thought most, I assume, would believe) that the Great Other and its followers are truly the evil beings we've been told. And given that ASoIaF has very few consistently evil characters/entities, there's the chance that things aren't as we may assume.



In fact, thinking of GRRM's comments about the ending being bittersweet.... It could be that we finally discover that the Great Other is a force for good, on a mission to haul the wold from the grasp of evil (e.g. all that slavery and suffering), just as we watch that best last hope being defeated (probably by the people we've seen up until now as the good guys).

Har, har ... IMP WHERE ARE YOU, then our little theory that Jon is actually switching sides again has it's merit. Now wouldn't that be a site to see, Snow leading forces of Ice against Dany leading forces of Fire. GRRM's Song of Ice and Fire, I'm gonna fall from my chair here.

 

[The Imp]

Har, har ... IMP WHERE ARE YOU, then our little theory that Jon is actually switching sides again has it's merit. Now wouldn't that be a site to see, Snow leading forces of Ice against Dany leading forces of Fire. GRRM's Song of Ice and Fire, I'm gonna fall from my chair here.

I think it's possible.

I can't wait for the next book

 

[NenadBulaja]

I think it's possible.

I can't wait for the next book

Don't get too pessimistic Imp, it may come sooner than you think, and be better than many presume.