A thought about Game of Thrones on TV

[Mouse]

Hey Mouse! We start talking about Loras & Renly and up you pop!

But of course!

 

[Timba]

Getting satelite TV installed today. Looking foward to 2 things. Watching the new season of GOT and calling my current provider and explaining why I no longer wish to buy their service. It is going to be a good day.

 

[Boaz]

Warning: ACOK and Season Two: Episode One Spoilers.

HBO is far behind Martin in telling the story. So most, if not all, of us are watching while knowing the future of the characters and plotlines. The problem is that we do not also have Benioff's and Weiss' script... so we judge the characters and plots by the books.... which is only natural because it is THE story and it's all we have.

The two sex scenes most recently mentioned in this thread go straight to the heart of the issue. First, there was Baelish lecturing Roz and an unnamed woman on how to properly pleasure a man. Was it gratuitous? Yes... in the best/worst HBO tradition of gratuitous sex. But in the first episode of the second season, we saw Roz now lecturing employees on the presentation and speed of intercourse in order to fully pleasure the client. Without last season's gratuitous sex, Roz's instruction makes less sense. She is obviously being groomed by Baelish because he sees potential in her. And I suspect that Roz will replace Chataya completely...

The other scene featured Renly and Loras. In the books, their relationship is hinted, veiled, and a few times it's obvious gossip. But Martin never put it out there in headline bold type. Renly may have been foolish in some areas, but not in this. He was a master of public perception.... all men wanted to be like him and all women wanted to be with him. He was a great character. I liked Renly... a lot. But I was not thrilled with the inclusion Renly and Loras' scene. Nevertheless, I am trusting that the writers will be able to use the revelation to good effect in the second season.

Speaking for myself (and mayhaps most readers), Martin's ability to set up plots with significant and also seemingly insignificant scenes is tremendous. I don't know how many times I've read a passage and then immediately remembered a previous passage two books ago. He sets up plots well in advance. And that, I hope, is what the show's writers are able to do. I hope they are able to continually prepare plot resolutions with substantial plot beginnings.

 

[Tywin]

Sorry to distract the discussion from the gratuitous sex scenes that HBO creates, but I just watched episode 1 of season 2 and I have to say that I'm impressed. I find it stirring up all of the emotional rollercoaster that I went through when reading the books. Seeing Robb in action was inspiring... but sad knowing what will become of him. Seeing Theon chant "The King of the North!"... sigh... Damn evil author.

 

[Timba]

Sorry to distract the discussion from the gratuitous sex scenes that HBO creates, but I just watched episode 1 of season 2 and I have to say that I'm impressed. I find it stirring up all of the emotional rollercoaster that I went through when reading the books. Seeing Robb in action was inspiring... but sad knowing what will become of him. Seeing Theon chant "The King of the North!"... sigh... Damn evil author.

Had the same reactions, particularly to Theon. I am also having the same reacton to Arya in the show that I have with the books.....more please!

 

[Needle]

Had the same reactions, particularly to Theon. I am also having the same reacton to Arya in the show that I have with the books.....more please!

Sorry to distract the discussion from the gratuitous sex scenes that HBO creates, but I just watched episode 1 of season 2 and I have to say that I'm impressed. I find it stirring up all of the emotional rollercoaster that I went through when reading the books. Seeing Robb in action was inspiring... but sad knowing what will become of him. Seeing Theon chant "The King of the North!"... sigh... Damn evil author.

i agree damn that George! I expect seeing Theon belittled at the hands of his father will be even harder than "seeing" it was. As to my girl, she is all I expected her to be!

 

[Tywin]

I also had a wee bit to drink before watching that episode last night... Might have increased my emotional reaction a bit.

 

[Timba]

i agree damn that George! I expect seeing Theon belittled at the hands of his father will be even harder than "seeing" it was. As to my girl, she is all I expected her to be!

I think the casting in this series is brilliant. The only disappointment for me so far is Theon, not sure why but he just does not seem "right" to me.

Arya on the other hand is absolutely perfect. The actress seems to have really captured the character from the book. I am really looking forward to her story line developing.

 

[Needle]

Warning ! Spoilers season 2 episode 2!



I must lodge my first serious complaint about the series. I get that they want tv watchers to understand that what Mel is about to birth is Stannis's but having them be togeher toltaly changes who Stannis is! I dont like it one bit! There I feel somewhat better now!!

 

[Eulalia]

I thought it could be inferred that Stannis and Mel did get it on for Shadow purposes. Couldn't say for sure. It was a tad blatant.

There were a few off things in this episode. My distraction was that "Yara" looked pregnant.

A small beef is that Robert, Stannis and Renly Baratheon do not have thick black hair, even thought they keep talking about it. My husband asked me who "the guy on the beach" was, but now he knows! He is also reading the books after all this time.

 

[Keebs411]

Warning ! Spoilers season 2 episode 2!



I must lodge my first serious complaint about the series. I get that they want tv watchers to understand that what Mel is about to birth is Stannis's but having them be togeher toltaly changes who Stannis is! I dont like it one bit! There I feel somewhat better now!!

i agree. Also they didnt seem to really mention or show his wife. And mel made it seem as if he had no children but she would give him a son. It urked me as well.
yara a.k.a asha i was kinda disappointed with visually as well. They make her out IMO to be this highly sought after ( not just cause of her family name and position) but because she is a combo of both visually attractive( a stone cold fox) and 1 tough vixen , in my mind i envisioned her to look like kate beckensale did in the movie van helsing. But on the show she is very plain. The personailty was deff there but the looks were lackin. Again this is just my opinion

 

[Keebs411]

I was pumped how ever to finally see jaq,s face of his many and the twist of arrya telling gendry who she relly is so early, i figured that was to spare time and such. Yoren with the kings men was awesome!! Good plot building episode

 

[Boaz]

Needle, I agree. I think showing Stannis with Mel ruins Stannis' image. Stannis needed to start strong and stay strong for quite a while. How can he appear to be the only just man in Westeros when we quickly saw him break his wedding vows?

Just like Renly with Loras, Stannis' private matters should have stayed in the realm of inuendo, gossip, and rumors. It does not change who they are, it changes the viewers' perceptions.

 

[southron sword]

Just like Renly with Loras, Stannis' private matters should have stayed in the realm of inuendo, gossip, and rumors. It does not change who they are, it changes the viewers' perceptions.

Spot on! I'm dissapointed. I undertsand they need to deviate from the books slightly. But that ISN'T STANNIS! Mad Fumey Face!


*Mumbles to myself* Gah! And I'm such a Baratheon Fan. Your ruining it!!!!

 

[Timba]

I guess I was not as dissappointed in the Stannis/Mel scene. Every self righteous, holier than thou jerk I have ever known turned out to be anything but righteous so it did not bother me at all that this was portrayed directly.

 

[Ursa major]

Speaking as someone who'll have to wait to watch this scene on the DVDs/blurays, so cannot debate specific of the scene....


I'd always assumed that Stannis had a hand in the process, as it were (hence the "tiredness"), but that because neither of those involved were PoV characters at the time, it was something that couldn't be shown in the books. The TV show is not so restricted, and so they could show the scene. And they have done.

 

[Mesanna]

Timba, well said!

We pretty much knew that Stannis had slept with Mel to produce the shadow babies, so it isn't much of a shocker that they showed it. However, the show did imply that he did it because he wanted a son. It would have been more intriguing if Mel had said "You must sleep with me and I will win you the war" or something like that. Though, of course, we have no idea what Mel actually said (in the books) to persuade Stannis to break his vows! But, ultimately, he's just another cheater who breaks the rules when it suits his purpose, not the saintly Mr. Morality he might like to think he is, so I have no problem with him being portrayed that way. Sorry, Stannis fans.

I felt they strongly implied that Stannis had no children at all. So far in the books, Shireen hasn't really played a major role (apart from teaching us about greyscale), so I could understand why they might drop her. But do you think this means she won't ever have a role of any great importance in the rest of the book series? I know there are one or two theories involving her.

 

[Keebs411]

Timba, well said!

We pretty much knew that Stannis had slept with Mel to produce the shadow babies, so it isn't much of a shocker that they showed it. However, the show did imply that he did it because he wanted a son. It would have been more intriguing if Mel had said "You must sleep with me and I will win you the war" or something like that. Though, of course, we have no idea what Mel actually said (in the books) to persuade Stannis to break his vows! But, ultimately, he's just another cheater who breaks the rules when it suits his purpose, not the saintly Mr. Morality he might like to think he is, so I have no problem with him being portrayed that way. Sorry, Stannis fans.

I felt they strongly implied that Stannis had no children at all. So far in the books, Shireen hasn't really played a major role (apart from teaching us about greyscale), so I could understand why they might drop her. But do you think this means she won't ever have a role of any great importance in the rest of the book series? I know there are one or two theories involving her.

Thats what i was thinking as well. As little as shireen comes up in the books and of no great importancw other then the grey scale and to stress that stannia is not only not well liked but seems to have get the crappy end of the stick compared to his brothers. ( unattracted to hia wife, loveless marrige, no sons, only one child a daughter with grey scale) of the 3 brothers stannis would always be picked last for kick ball unless davos or mel were a team captain. So the wife and daughter possibly being written out could make sense but i too wonder of ahireen may have a bigger role in the books, and thats because of Val, reaction to her but also Patchface. Stannia is a man of no laughs no humor or toleration for anything silly. He wouldnt keep patchface himself, so shireen is needed for the patchface link imo. Again i think PF will play an important role to one of the many major plots in the books so if the series goes all the way with the books im wondering how they would twist that. Not upset by the poss charecter write outs but also just curious to how they will replace or twist things if they end up being important in the last 2 books

 

[Boaz]

Ursa, good point regarding POVs. But for the most part, Stannis, Mel, and Selyse are able to convince his bannermen that his cause is righteous. I think that if the show had gone longer before revealing that Stannis is morally compromised, then our disappointment in his fall would be that much greater.

Only Davos, through his POV, is able to piece it together... and he takes issue with Stannis' methods. For me, this is spooky because Davos is Stannis' man, heart and soul... and yet he finds himself at odds with Stannis' means when he was once (and sometimes still is) the very means by which Stannis circumvents certain legalities. Doesn't that seem like hypocrisy on Davos' part? The entire Stannis/Selyse/Melisandre/Davos/Sallador/Cressen/Patchface/Mance/Rattleshirt/Val/Jon story begs the question "How far over the line is too far?" Stannis believes the line is the line. Davos thinks that a little bit over the line is fine. Sallador really pushes it... and Melisandre does not even see the line.

I'm not saying the sex scene was bad... I'm saying it was premature. But then again, the show is for those who have not read. I'll trust that the writers make it fun for them.

 

[Clansman]

I guess I was not as dissappointed in the Stannis/Mel scene. Every self righteous, holier than thou jerk I have ever known turned out to be anything but righteous so it did not bother me at all that this was portrayed directly.

"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God..."

and

"all our righteousness acts are as filthy rags..."

Thus the way of the hypocrite (i.e. all of us).

Why is Stannis so bloody righteous, anyway? Well, he had a whoring, spend-the-kingdom lummox of an older brother (who probably beat him up on a regular basis), and a bookend younger brother in Renly, except at the other end of the spectrum. Small wonder that Stannis is a Spartan.

The trouble with the guy who tries to be righteous, and also rams it down others' throats, is that he is, at some point, really going to screw up. The end effect of all of this is that the screw up is made that much bigger by having been preceded by all that holier-than-thou crap. Jimmy Swaggart, anyone?

Then there are the guys who try to be righteous, do a pretty good job of it, but when they inevitably mess up, they take it on the chin and do their best to clean up their mess. Ned Stark is a perfect example of what Stannis should have tried to be. It is Stannis' rigidity that will be his downfall.