Gardens of the Moon frustration

[Coragem]

Brian Ruckley's Godless World trilogy I believe is a good one without too much magic. I enjoyed it. Not the cheeriest books in the world.

This is on my to-buy list, together with R. Scott Bakker's stuff.

I don't mind "dark", but I do like to feel that there's a point to all the toil, death, and struggle in the end -- that the fight was worth something!

Coragem.

 

[Brian G Turner]

A couple of questions about GotM, especially the ending:

WARNING, SPOILERS!!

Spoiler

1. What was the point about Oponn and the coin? Crokus had negligable impact on the overall story?
2. The Empress had freed the Jaghra to attack Darujhistan, and we're told it could destroy continents. In which case, why did the Empress want the Adjunct to also release a demon lord in the city? *Especially* when she wanted it intact? Also felt like the defeat of the Jaghra by the tree-thing was deus ex machina

Not trying to rain on any parade, just didn;t get those parts.

 

[Valko]

Malazan is not just Epic fantasy, but rather is Epic High Fantasy. It, as Overread said, oozes magic and supernatural stuff on every page. There is so much of it that you simply accept it as part of that world. But it is very different high fantasy. I can't think of anything like it. I am in the midst of Esselmont's Return of the Crimson Guard, having read up to The Bonehunters in Erikson's books. The jury is still out on whether or not I like it RotCG. I really liked Esselmont's Night of Knives which was a nice background to GotM. I almost wish that I had read it first.

As for low fantasy, try just about anything by Paul Kearney, but especially his Sea Beggars and his Macht books. I loved his Monarchies of God series, but there was more magic in that than in his other stuff.

I agree about NOK, I loved that book but i'm bogged down in RotCG & I've become totally lost about what's happening to who, where or why!
It's a very frustrating book as it just doesn't seem to flow. I found GotM a much easier read.

 

[Lenny]

A couple of questions about GotM, especially the ending:

WARNING, SPOILERS!!

Spoiler

1. What was the point about Oponn and the coin? Crokus had negligable impact on the overall story?
2. The Empress had freed the Jaghra to attack Darujhistan, and we're told it could destroy continents. In which case, why did the Empress want the Adjunct to also release a demon lord in the city? *Especially* when she wanted it intact? Also felt like the defeat of the Jaghra by the tree-thing was deus ex machina

Not trying to rain on any parade, just didn;t get those parts.

Again, spoilerised to preserve details:

Spoiler

1. Chance plays a big part in the overall story arc, so their actions won't make sense for a very long time (assuming you decide to read the series). Crokus, also, plays a large part in later books, but again you need to read the series.

2. I can't remember the Galayn Lord (the soletaken that Rake fought) being released on the order of the Empress. Did Lorn not release because of danger? If there was a reason, my guess is that showing Rake that the Empire has control of such powerful beings is an easier way to win the war and still gain territory than battling it out against the Tiste Andii.

As for the Jaghut and being swallowed by the "tree thing", there is a reason for that, but no-one knows why. The finnest grew into what is known as an Azath - houses around the world that are somehow connected. You learn in further books that they are almost lodestones for power, and that they're somehow important to everything. Each Azath also has a guardian to protect it, hence the need for the powerful Jaghut Tyrant, Raest.

That's my interpretation, anyway.

At the end of the day, GotM introduces so many threads, each with their own questions, that are only answered by reading the series... but even then, you won't really get anything concrete until book four, and you might not even get anything at all - the Azath, for example, are still objects of great mystery. My hope is that Esslemont will cover them in his remaining books or, at least, Erikson will shed some light with his two trilogies (each of which is set tens of thousands of years before the events in this series).

 

[Wiggum]

It's all gobbledegook.

Fun gobbledegook though.

Laseen allowed the demon to be released, but with the knowledge that it would in turn lose to Rake, enhancing the power of Draginpur, and Anomander himself.

Allowing he and his Soletaken Tiste to beat the Tyrant and create another house within her own back yard.

Which she thought to control.

Its a powerful prison.

Crokus, as Lenny says, plays a major part as the series goes on.

As do the two sides of the coin.

 

[Bugg]

I agree about RotCG - I got bogged down in it as well. Didn't like it too much.

 

[Valko]

If I give up on RotCG & start on Reaper's Gale would I miss anything major?

 

[Lenny]

There's one particularly major event, yes, but I'm not entirely sure that Erikson ever makes reference to it. It's certainly mentioned in further Esslemont books, though.

 

[Valko]

That's a relief. I don't think I'll be reading another Esslemont book so nothing lost there then.
Thanks Lenny

 

[CyBeR]

I don't understand why so many people are so against GotM. As I read it I had very little problem with sticking with the characters and who and what each is. Sure, it didn't make a lick of sense for half the book, but you just add little details to everyone and to every situation and in the end you stand back and look at the general picture that it forms.
A lot of characters? They're pretty individualistic most of the times, and the structure of the book prevents you from getting lost in their descriptions and who they belong to.
I had a friend try the series as well and he gave up after the first third of the book. Is it strange to stick to something and just see where it goes before actually giving up? 100 pages is really only scratching the surface of the thing.

 

[Fried Egg]

I just thought it was boring. I got over half way through and just lost interest.

But then again, I'm just not an epic fantasy series fan anymore.

 

[CyBeR]

Surprisingly...the more I read, the more I find myself not THAT into epic fantasy. Sure, I enjoy battles and dragons and magic and all that comes with it...but when I get close to a tome 800 pages strong...I just get completely put off most of the times. That's why I rarely (up to this year that is) ever read more than one LARGE book of a large series per year.
But GotM...well...this I believe is straight up my alley as it were. I like a good puzzle that actually feels rewarding by the end.

 

[Koopa]

The one problem i have with Erikson books stems from reading other books.
You see from from time to time i like to reread parts of the book i enjoyed.
But not all of it. Easiest example is GRRM. If i want to reread about say the red wedding, i know exactly where to go. This does not hold through with Erikson. When i want to reread a certain part in his book i'm forced to scan through a whole lot of pages before i find it.

 

[Primitius]

I've recently finished Dead House Gates, and seem to have formed somewhat of a love hate relationship with the books thus far. I am equal parts amazed and frustrated. Frustrated that I am missing things that perhaps other more keen minds aren't (****, I have to actually try to glean some sort of sense out of those little song/history snippets at the beginnings of chapters??), twinned with knowing I am missing some things due to seemingly becoming competely lost and confused at many points. Also, as another negative, I find I don't really care much about the characters - I can't think of one character death I would be devastated by. However I do find some of the characters really interesting in terms of their motivations and so on.
Yet despite all this, at times, I am just simply amazed at the depth and uniqueness of the world. There have been certain scenes that have literally taken my breath away. As someone else stated - some certain scenes inside warrens I found truly awe-inspiring in a way unlike I have experienced with any other book. The nature and the mysteries of the setting are what really grabs me - in a way this is the foremost thing I look for in fantasy - that evocative sense of 'other-worldliness', and this fits that bill better than anything else I have ever read.

I do think I will read the whole series, because for me the good outweigh the bad. Plus I am just dying to know why a lot of stuff has happened that I don't yet understand properly (here's hoping I have some semblance of understanding once I've finished the whole series).

 

[Lenny]

I think I stopped reading the snippets at the start of chapters someway into the third book - as far as I know, I haven't missed anything big. From what I can gather, they're there as bits of background information, adding more depth to the world, so you can rest assured that none of the plot points rest on something in a snippet.

As for your frustration about missing things, you are not alone. On my first read through, I found myself going back over things quite a few times, because I simply didn't twig. I've said it before, and I'm sure I'll say it again - even on fourth, fifth, etc., read-throughs, I pick up on things that I didn't the first time (or second, third, fourth, ..., time). Eventually, the frustration will morph into awe and childish glee.

If there's anything in particular you think you're missing, or want to talk in depth about, feel free to start a new thread, or send a PM to someone who has read them all.

 

[Bugg]

I've said it before, and I'm sure I'll say it again - even on fourth, fifth, etc., read-throughs, I pick up on things that I didn't the first time (or second, third, fourth, ..., time). Eventually, the frustration will morph into awe and childish glee.

Same here. It applies to the poems, too, I think. I loved GotM the first time I read it, but going back to re-read it, having read all the other books up to (at the time) Dust of Dreams, I found it a revelation, and that continued into the subsequent books on re-read, too.

 

[Sho Pi]

SPOILERS!!

For me, the event of the Chain of Dogs hooked me. I loved the Bridgeburners as characters and Kruppe is obviously brilliant, but GotM is a lighthearted story compared to what comes next. From DHG onward your heart will be broken repeatedly, this is a story about the human spirit in the most profound way I've found it in any fantasy story. The events of the Chain of Dogs don't really contribute to the main storyline, but it foreshadows what you will have to endure in the books to come; like what happens to Toc in Memories of Ice, or the trek of the children through the Glass desert. That's the genius of Erikson, he makes you feel for almost everyone of his characters, good guys or bad, with the exception of the truly bad guys, like the Fokrul Assail and the Tiste Liosans.

Spoiler:

Spoiler

I mean it's been 1,5 years since I read most of the books, but I still feel the hurt when Trull Sengar died.

I get that as a reader you get frustrated by the constantly added new characters, but you shouldn't worry, before to soon you'll be caring as much for them as you did for the previous ones. But you will have to steel you heart, because few of them will make it to the end.

At least that's how I felt about the Malazan Book of the Fallen.

 

[Fedos]

^I was just spoiled by your above post You should tag the above with a spoiler.

 

[Sho Pi]

^I was just spoiled by your above post You should tag the above with a spoiler.

Oh, I'm sorry. I thought I kept it pretty generic. If you haven't read this already I don't think you can gleam much information about it.

 

[Brian G Turner]

Sorry, Fedos - added spoiler warning.