Strong Female Characters*

[Toby Frost]

A couple of days ago I was reading a story by Daphne du Maurier, who I think is generally a very good writer. However, in this tale the heroine (admittedly an actress, which may be shorthand for "slightly insane") was: imprisoned by a sinister man; decided he was ok, if eccentric; talked to him openly about sex; discovered that he was a dangerous terrorist; had sex with him; saw him blow up a church; learned that he had destroyed a string of targets over 20 years; told him that she loved him and wanted to join his terrorist cell; and, having been rejected, decided that she hated him and would kill him - all in the space of two days. I realise that shorter fiction has to compress things, but such a course of action made me think that the dangerous terrorist was the balanced one of the pair.

The point about this is that such crazy behaviour is the sort of thing women seem to do in older stories (this was the '70s). I could almost understand it if the writer was a man, especially of the gruff-old-major type, but du Maurier was a pretty sophisticated novelist. There does seem to have been a belief, quite widespread, that a woman's response to anything could be realistically determined by rolling a dice every paragraph or so (1: I hate you, I hate you! 2: Dahling, take me with you! All the way to 6: leap out the window). Odd.

 

[Anne Lyle]

Du Maurier was a very complex person. She considered herself to have two distinct personalities, the "normal" wife and mother that everyone saw, and an inner male identity that informed and motivated her writing. She was also bisexual, but owing to her upbringing was highly conflicted about her sexuality.

I would therefore not consider her strange portrayal of a female character, especially so late in her career, to be that surprising

 

[Phoenixthewriter]

Either you write characters with depth or you don't. That goes for males and females, characters and writers.

So I don't worry about "males can't write female characters, or at least not write them good without having a massive checklist to follow".

You basically took the words right out of my mouth.

I honestly don't believe you get more character out of one or the other, I think what it boils down to is preference. You can either create a great character, or you can't. I've said before that I prefer to write women characters, but I might also add that my male characters have just as much personality and are equally as interesting.

My thoughts always fall back on Brandon Sanderson. He is a master at charaters both male and female, and it has nothing to do with their sex at all. Kelsier and Kaladin, from seperate novels, are incredible male leads. And yet, Vin and Sarene, also from seperate novels, could be the best female characters I've read.

 

[Peter Graham]

Du Maurier was a very complex person. She considered herself to have two distinct personalities, the "normal" wife and mother that everyone saw, and an inner male identity that informed and motivated her writing. She was also bisexual, but owing to her upbringing was highly conflicted about her sexuality.

She also lived in Cornwall, meaning that she was bats*it crazy.

Regards,

Peter

 

[Nerds_feather]

the issue boils down to the fact that men dominate SF and F, and have an easier time imagining male characters. i don't think this is a conscious or political decision, but rather just an outgrowth of the natural tendency of people to be limited by their experiences and perspectives. of course, as writers, we have to try to transcend these limitations.

to be perfectly honest, i think male writers sometimes need to sit down and specifically say to themselves "I'm going to make this important character female" and "I'm going to make this female character as three-dimensional as the male characters."

the same is probably true in reverse for female writers.

 

[The Judge]

Yes, I've looked at some of du Maurier's female characters and just... wondered... but only in her short stories, oddly enough. In the novels she seems to write them properly. I wonder if it is something to do with compression of time, both the time taken for the writing and the time within the story as it were.

 

[Hex]

the same is probably true in reverse for female writers.

I'm not sure it is. I grew up reading sff and adventure stories where the male characters were the important and complex ones. Most writers of fantasy have a passing acquaintance with The Lord of the Rings, for example, in which there were no female character a girl aspired to be unless she fancied hanging around in forests looking pretty. Fine if you like that sort of thing, but not very exciting.

So women tend to grow up reading stories about strong men too.

 

[RcGrant]

She also lived in Cornwall, meaning that she was bats*it crazy.

Regards,

Peter

I'm offended!

 

[Brian G Turner]

A couple of days ago I was reading a story by Daphne du Maurier, who I think is generally a very good writer. However, in this tale the heroine (admittedly an actress, which may be shorthand for "slightly insane") was: imprisoned by a sinister man; decided he was ok, if eccentric; talked to him openly about sex; discovered that he was a dangerous terrorist; had sex with him; saw him blow up a church; learned that he had destroyed a string of targets over 20 years; told him that she loved him and wanted to join his terrorist cell;

I was going to say "Stockholm Syndrome" and then I wondered if this might not be a forerunner for Alan Moore's "V For Vendetta".

 

[David Evil Overlord]

I'm not sure it is. I grew up reading sff and adventure stories where the male characters were the important and complex ones. Most writers of fantasy have a passing acquaintance with The Lord of the Rings, for example, in which there were no female character a girl aspired to be unless she fancied hanging around in forests looking pretty. Fine if you like that sort of thing, but not very exciting.

I thought killing a ringwraith would be pretty important. But maybe that's just me.

 

[Arkose]

I thought killing a ringwraith would be pretty important. But maybe that's just me.

I always thought Galadriel was the most powerful character outside the "White Wizard."

I remember writing a 15 page paper on why Tolkein wasn't a sexist in High School.

 

[Anne Lyle]

Yes, I've looked at some of du Maurier's female characters and just... wondered... but only in her short stories, oddly enough. In the novels she seems to write them properly. I wonder if it is something to do with compression of time, both the time taken for the writing and the time within the story as it were.

Could be that she just wasn't a natural short-story writer. Some of us aren't!

 

[Hex]

I thought killing a ringwraith would be pretty important. But maybe that's just me.

It's true, Eowyn's pretty cool. But she's not exactly a major character. If you've been waiting for a character to identify with until you get to Rohan, you've been waiting an awfully long time. Also, I think it's interesting that the woman who goes out and hits things with a sword does not get the man she loves (who's in love with a(n elf) woman who hangs around looking beautiful)

I always thought Galadriel was the most powerful character outside the "White Wizard."

Yes, but she's boring. Was Gandalf the character you identified with when you read Lord of the Rings? Who could identify with Galadriel who's powerful and beautiful and totally mysterious?

I'm not suggesting Tolkien was sexist precisely, just that almost all his interesting characters are male. It's true of a lot of fiction. My point (such as it is) is that I grew up identifying with male characters in books because they were the interesting ones. When I write, I find I naturally people my books with male characters. I think it's because I'm influenced by all the stories I read.

 

[David Evil Overlord]

Personally, I try to people my books with people.

And I try to make them all interesting.

 

[Hex]

Personally, I try to people my books with people.

Me too. But if I don't pay attention, most of those people are men.

 

[David Evil Overlord]

Pay attention, Hex.

Personally, if I don't pay attention, most of my people are female.

 

[James Coote]

Here's a challenge: name five comedian* characters that are female

*Edit: comic as in comedians

 

[Jammill Khursheed]

Damm James... Naming funny female characters in fiction is hard... Apparently men are intimidated by funny women in real life, and even though I am technically one myself I love funny women so I don't get where the rest of "us" are coming from


Jammill

 

[allmywires]

*Deep breath*

I'm a woman and I don't think women can be funny. Not comedian funny, anyway, because 9 times out of 10 it turns into vagina and period related jokes and I can't stand that.

 

[Anne Lyle]

I think women most definitely can be funny, but you're right, a lot of them fall back on stereotypes. But then so did black standup comedians in the early days - the stuff they came out with back in the 1970s is positively cringeworthy by today's standards.

Standup is hard enough, without knowing that half of the audience have low expectations from the outset merely because you have two X chromosomes...