Strong Female Characters*

There are plenty of funny women on here, unless there's some good disguising going on (in which case they might be funny in a different sense).

But "comedian" to me suggests the ability to tell jokes in isolation, rather than as part of a conversation with someone you gel with, which in my experience is when humour most happens. Maybe that is more a male thing, with the abstraction and the competitiveness and whatever. Having said that, I couldn't do it.
 
psychologically speaking, it has been suggested that men focus more on humour as a comraderie building thing, whereas women have empathy and proper conversations (not just taking turns at trying to say things that makes others laugh or impress the others enough that they see them as the alpha male of the group), and therefore don't NEED it as much...

Therefore seeing women do that makes men do a double-take as its not the norm, and that's what intimdates them... Saw a really good documentary series about it a while back hosted by Dawn French, and it made me realise that's how most guys I know react to funny women (and why brilliantly funny comedians like Kathy Burke and Jennifer Saunders were complaining that it put men off them, and is why the majority of famous female comedians are in relationships with male comedians)...

Its starting to get a bit off topic now though :)


Jammill
 
That said, it might actually be part of why male writers find it difficult to write convincing female characters, a little bit of humour makes even the most detestable/boring male character more likeable and its hard for men to write a convincing female character that comes across as well because they don't put that humour in...

Even in LOTR, the dwarf and the elf (I don't remember the names) have the little comedy score-count going on, and the hobbits are funny, but none of the female characters are in the slightest bit amusing...

Just a thought...


Jammill
 
*Deep breath*

I'm a woman and I don't think women can be funny. Not comedian funny, anyway, because 9 times out of 10 it turns into vagina and period related jokes and I can't stand that.

I'm inclined to agree with this. Female comedians are usually pretty flipping awful. If it's not about vaginas and periods then it's about how awful their husbands/partners are, or how fat they are. The only female comedian I find vaguely amusing is Sarah Millican.

But, (and this has been discussed in the media recently, I seem to remember), women are funnier than men in everyday conversations. I laugh more with my female friends than I do with my male friends.

I've been told I'm funny, but whether people mean funny ha ha or funny weird, I don't know. One of my mates even told me I was the funniest person on the planet. But she was horrifically drunk at the time. ;)

Book related (and even TV/film related), I can't think of one female character in fiction who is the 'funny' one of the group. Not one.
 
But then so did black standup comedians in the early days - the stuff they came out with back in the 1970s is positively cringeworthy by today's standards.

It's something that still happens today. Just because you're not a white man, doesn't mean the only thing you can be funny about is that!

(Not bringing race into it because that would be SERIOUSLY off topic!)

But "comedian" to me suggests the ability to tell jokes in isolation, rather than as part of a conversation with someone you gel with, which in my experience is when humour most happens. Maybe that is more a male thing, with the abstraction and the competitiveness and whatever. Having said that, I couldn't do it.

I think that's spot on HB.

Its starting to get a bit off topic now though :)

Apologies! :p
 
It's something that still happens today. Just because you're not a white man, doesn't mean the only thing you can be funny about is that!

Do you think there's an element of what the audience lets you do, though? (and by 'audience' I mean the people who book acts etc). So men are perceived as funny about stuff like politics, and women have to stay in their Women's Jokes niche to be booked at all?

I read an interview with a female stand up the other day and she said that on panel shows she was often expected to be the stupid one. I thought that was interesting.

Do you think it's really that women can't be funny?

edit: @Mouse -- I'll find it again. She was young and pretty, though, which I suspect puts her in a different group from Jo Brand who is aggressively not-girlie. Sandi Toksvig is also not-pretty-young-woman and is frequently the smartest person on a show (I also think she's funny). Perhaps we've advanced to the stage where a woman can be funny or pretty but not both? ;)
 
I read an interview with a female stand up the other day and she said that on panel shows she was often expected to be the stupid one. I thought that was interesting.

Unless Johnny Vegas is there, then that's his job.

Who was that though? You ever seen Jo Brand on a panel show? She's usually one of the more intelligent ones, especially on QI. So I don't believe that excuse!
 
Do you think there's an element of what the audience lets you do, though? (and by 'audience' I mean the people who book acts etc). So men are perceived as funny about stuff like politics, and women have to stay in their Women's Jokes niche to be booked at all?

I read an interview with a female stand up the other day and she said that on panel shows she was often expected to be the stupid one. I thought that was interesting.

Do you think it's really that women can't be funny?

I don't know about the 'audience' being the ones that dictate what women can be funny about - I've been to a couple of stand up shows at my uni which feature female comedians being 'woman funny' and they were not well received (nobody booed them, but they weren't laughing either). I'm not saying women can't be funny - far from it (I like to think I'm vaguely humorous myself). Just not in a scripted, gag-a-minute way. I'm not sure why though.

I'm trying to imagine a female Dara O'Brien hosting Mock the Week and I just can't, and it's kind of scary that I don't know why.
 
But "comedian" to me suggests the ability to tell jokes in isolation, rather than as part of a conversation with someone you gel with, which in my experience is when humour most happens. Maybe that is more a male thing, with the abstraction and the competitiveness and whatever. Having said that, I couldn't do it.
What matters is the ability to do it in a room filled with strangers, people of whose own sense of humour one is not aware. This is probably why a lot of stand-up humour relies on stereotypes**: it's a way of restricting the humour to assumed areas of common knowledge. When one is with one's friends, you can play with their (real and fantasy) natures; one can build on previous jokes involving these (real and imagined) characteristics. One can say things that aren't going to be taken the wrong way and thus won't end in physical retaliation. This is all easy, which is why so many of us can do it. We never have to leave our comfort zone.

Doing it on stage is entirely different and very few men can do it successfully. I couldn't. (But, thankfully, I wouldn't want to even try.)

It requires a lot of self-belief and courage; it requires many of those characteristics that we have been brought up to believe are "not the proper province of women". In time, there will be more female comics and comedians, because women are just as capable of doing it as men. But good*** male and female comics will remain a tiny majority of their respective genders.



** - In both good and bad ways (observational humour and racist quips respectively).

*** - The downside of having to have non-comic attributes to get on - such as a rhino-like skin - is that quite a few so-called comics aren't that funny. There's one comic, who's had a few series on the radio, who just about bombed on one of those Live at the Apollo-like shows. I've never heard him make one humorous remark. (He must be friends with someone at the BBC.) And I expect this explains those female comics who've been criticised above: they're in front of us as much because they're willing to try as their talent. (Having said that, some female comedians associated with "women's-problems jokes" are seriously funny once they're prised away from what they thought they had to say to get a laugh earlier in their careers.)
 
You ever seen Jo Brand on a panel show? She's usually one of the more intelligent ones, especially on QI.
I agree.

Whoever came up with the idea of having Alan Davies as "the stupid one" on QI should be praised. Whenever female comedians come on the show, they're able to step out of that "I'm the girl, so I won't understand" stereotype and really show us what they can do.
 
I don't know about the 'audience' being the ones that dictate what women can be funny about - I've been to a couple of stand up shows at my uni which feature female comedians being 'woman funny' and they were not well received (nobody booed them, but they weren't laughing either). I'm not saying women can't be funny - far from it (I like to think I'm vaguely humorous myself). Just not in a scripted, gag-a-minute way. I'm not sure why though.

I think it's probably people who book the acts that have control over who gets to be a comedian -- although, like Ursa says, there are all sorts of social expectations as well which probably stop people even trying.

I bet they book all sorts of male acts which aren't very funny either.

Josie Lawrence?
 
Josie Lawrence?

Never heard of her. For a moment I thought that said Joey Lawrence. God, I used to love him. :eek:

Ursa, Jo Brand does tell an awful lot of bosom jokes though. (I think Alan Davies is pretty funny when he's not being a brat. Stephen Fry is the funniest though.)
 
Meera Syal?

(and grandma -- whatever you make of the ageism issues -- was the funny one in the Kumars -- woo hoo! two birds with one stone and all that).
 
Without even thinking about it, Victoria Coren, Daisy Donovan and Lauren Laverne are all women who are intelligent and very funny, even though they are not primarily comedians.

Regards,

Peter
 
Smack the Pony (Fiona Allen, Doon Mackichan and the very attractive Sally Phillips) deserve a mention, too. A fair bit of their comedy was "women's stuff", but it wins points for doing more with it than just "don't you hate it when..."

The video dating series was one of the highlights:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7ZrBCY9ipI&feature=related

Incidentally, Christopher Hitchens wrote an article to the effect that women were incapable of being funny a few years ago. Unsurprisingly, there were some strongly-expressed views.
 
Peter, totally agree with you on Victoria Coren and Lauren Laverne, but Daisy Donovan IS a comedian...

Also, Victoria Coren was the only woman on "MY LIST" that wasn't a comedian... I don't have a list anymore though, now I'm single I can sleep with ANY celebrity who offers :)


Jammill
 

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