A place for horse related questions

[Cathbad]

 

[The Ace]

Side saddle riders do use their legs thank you generally you'll have a long stick to replace your right leg with when riding aside. Yes to B having their own reins and you'd attach a lead rope or lead rein to lead from A's horse.
In regards to side saddles, you don't actually sit sideways, just swing the hips round and leg round the queen. B will get a very sore right leg and bum as the saddles are harder, flatter and the the hip/leg alignment is like nothing else. You can also swing your right leg down (apron/skirts permissing) to stretch the muscles out. I did this more than usual today as it's been a while since I was last aside!

Ace, you're basically describing a Shetland (standard or miniature, but I'd suggest standard). Yes they need foot care - regular at bigger horses. Generally 6-8 weeks for shod and about every 8 weeks plus for barefoot to keep the balance. If lots of rough ground then they probably self trim so you could go further between trims but they still need balancing. Too many barefoot horses don't get seen frequently enough.

Saddle and bridle is fine and you'll do grand as long as you keep it all clean and oiled. Spurs aren't necessary and should only be used for more refined aids (not for going faster).

They do need their feet picking out daily and before and after riding. Hoof moisturiser is ok to use in dry weather if feet are looking dry and starting to crack but not essential. Google hoof picks and you'll find the device.

You're not going to get rotting feet in mud. You may be more at risk of a bacterial infection called mud fever (not caused by mud but by bacteria found in some bits of mud, but also found in non muddy areas) but that affects the heels and legs rather than foot. You may want to google thrush which is an infection in the frog bit of the hoof.

You wouldn't use open reins to lead - not unless you're a trail riding American, but you wouldn't be side saddle then and they're still not a good way to lead. I'd also not recommend leading with closed/English reins for a few technical reasons. A leather lead rein or a lead rope is fine.

Horses are led from the ground or other horses. Polo ponies are ponied (multiple horses led from one being ridden).

I think that's everything. Just be aware of the differences in terminology and style and standards of care between USA and UK in regards to horses (ie In USA you don't have to be qualified to be a farrier and trail riding is very different to 'English' riding in the USA whech again can be quite different to actual 'English' riding).

Thanks for that (and to you @Cathbad).

Thunder is a figment of my imagination, but if there are shenanigans, I may actually have to ride him on the forum, and I don't want an equestrian boiling up because I don't know what I'm doing.

He had a bit of a temper on him, which is why I got him, but it's really the inexperienced rider thing that gets to me. Is a horse likely to take advantage of an inexperienced rider ?

 

[Cathbad]

Is a horse likely to take advantage of an inexperienced rider ?

YES!

Especially a Shetland! LOL

They're known to be ornery. When I was 2 years old, one picked me up by the belly (in his lips; no teeth used) and shook me around! I told my angry father not to punish him, because he was just reminding me I wasn't supposed to go near him alone!

And, he didn't hurt me - only scared me.

 

[Cathbad]

But honestly, I believe what I've seen isn't the horse taking advantage of an inexperienced rider, but getting exasperated by them!

 

[Toby Frost]

I've got a question.

Four adventurers are travelling on a journey that's about the distance from the top to the bottom of France. They need to go reasonably quickly but they have a fair amount of kit to carry. They have considerable funds, although they have to go on horseback and can't do anything obviously magical that would draw large amounts of attention. How many horses would they need and how would they go about swapping and/or resting the horses? Would it make sense to put their gear in a small cart, although this would slow them down a lot?

 

[Kerrybuchanan]

I have characters doing this sort of journey, and I have them using pack ponies with panniers to carry their gear. This gives them mobility and speed, and each rider can lead one or more pack ponies.

What a lot of writers forget is that horses are grazing animals, and if they're not allowed to spend time eating grass, or grass substitutes such as hay, they will become sick. It's not enough to give them a nosebag of oats twice a day! You'll need to factor in stops to let them graze, and to drink from streams, which will slow them down in the short term, but be necessary to keep them alive through the journey. Your best bet is to have plenty of breaks during daytime if possible so they can do this, hobbling them to stop them running off.

The actual travelling is best as a walk-trot-occasional canter routine, running alongside the animals to rest their backs from time to time. You can read a bit about endurance horses here.

Edit: For 4 riders, it would probably be best to have two riding horses each if they can afford it. That allows them to change and rest the horses, and the spare can probably carry a light pack too.

 

[Toby Frost]

Thanks Kerry. It sounds as if I am on the right track, so to speak, but I'll have to mention the grazing somewhere in passing. They will have two horses each (I originally thought they'd have six in total, but eight works fine). Two of the men are too old to run along with the horses for any distance, but perhaps they could dismount to walk with them.

I think I will keep the little cart to carry supplies to begin with, if only so that they can ditch it later on to in such a way as to confuse pursuers. One of the characters is a spy-type person, and so it will help show his skill. Thanks again!

 

[The Judge]

Thanks, Kylara and Cathbad. A bit late for me to take everything in, so I'll have another read tomorrow, and if I've any questions arising, I'll come back. Ta.

 

[Overread]

Is a horse likely to take advantage of an inexperienced rider ?

Yes and no - ergo it depends entirely upon both the horses training and its mental attitude.

Some horses will take full advantage of any situation that they can; whilst others will be far more accepting of mistakes on the part of the rider. Some horses will work hard others will take every short-cut they can. Some are very herd-bound and think of horses first; others will associate more with people.
Their training is also key; nature and nurture. Of course a good trainer identifies the horses natural strengths and weaknesses and, much as possible, plays to them whilst attempting to remould them to suit their purpose.



When it comes to travel I think that its very hard for modern people, esp those with no equine experience and with no actual walking experience (with packs and luggage); to imagine how long it takes to travel. Cars and most modern forms of transport have spoilt us; plus films often only focus on the faster parts of the journey rather than the slower and more ponderous parts (ergo the boring bits).
Heck in computer games horses are basically a "travel fast" option; you jump on the horse and go faster than on foot. Indeed in many games a horse is required to get around in reasonable time - even though a real horse could never run continuously at those speeds and distances (nor could a human but your human character will without pause keep running).

 

[night_wrtr]

YES!

Especially a Shetland! LOL

They're known to be ornery. When I was 2 years old, one picked me up by the belly (in his lips; no teeth used) and shook me around! I told my angry father not to punish him, because he was just reminding me I wasn't supposed to go near him alone!

And, he didn't hurt me - only scared me.

I'll add another yes to this. We have a horse and if you don't know how to ride, he won't do a think for you. Or he will scare you to the point that he will make you get off the saddle. My wife has been riding since she could barely walk, so she is the experienced one.

I remember taking my wife on a trip to the ocean that had a protected habitat that allowed horses to walk through and ride on the beach. So we did that. The guide that was leading the caravan along the trails warned me that the horse I was given will do two things. He will stop walking if you don't keep him close to the horse ahead of you, and also likes to dunk his riders in the creek that we have to cross. :-/ At the time, I hardly knew what I was doing so I wasn't confident. Needless to say, I struggled a bit. I forget the horse's name, but he stopped right in the middle of the creek, thankfully he didn't dunk me because I had the camera around my neck. So I count that as a win.

 

[Danny McG]

Hello, I read "somewhere" that, on an open plain, a human at a steady jog can eventually run down and catch a wild horse over a few hours.
Is that actually possible?
I would have thought it could gain a couple of miles and then time to get it's wind back, have a little graze etc before the person got near it. Then off again to repeat it's rest until the person approaches. Over and over again.
Has there ever been an instance of someone catching a horse in this way?

 

[Cathbad]

Hello, I read "somewhere" that, on an open plain, a human at a steady jog can eventually run down and catch a wild horse over a few hours.
Is that actually possible?
I would have thought it could gain a couple of miles and then time to get it's wind back, have a little graze etc before the person got near it. Then off again to repeat it's rest until the person approaches. Over and over again.
Has there ever been an instance of someone catching a horse in this way?

I only know I would never want to be the one who tried this!!

 

[Toby Frost]

There was an instance of a hunter in Africa catching a large antelope this way, on a BBC documentary a few years back. The antelope could outrun him quite easily, but he was able to track it over a long distance. He followed at a jog, caught up and killed the antelope with a spear when it was exhausted.

 

[Cathbad]

I'm wondering if the antelope wasn't just wondering what the man would actually do?

I think some horses I've known would do the same

 

[Lumens]

I am no expert but I think it is not a question of exhaustion, but overheating. We humans sweat, and are able to get rid of heat quickly that way. The benefits of this in Africa should be clear. In addition to this, I believe the human who was hunting the antelope managed to injure it, slowing it down further.

 

[Ursa major]

From the Wiki article, Man versus Horse Marathon:

The event started in 1980, when local landlord Gordon Green overheard a discussion between two men in his pub, the Neuadd Arms. One man suggested that over a significant distance across country, man was equal to any horse. Green decided that the challenge should be tested in full public view, and organised the first event.

The course is slightly shorter than a traditional marathon at a reported 22 miles, but over rougher terrain. In 1985, cyclists were allowed to compete too - and that year, U.S. ladies' champion cyclist Jacquie Phelan narrowly lost to the first horse. In 1989, British cyclist Tim Gould beat the first horse by three minutes - the first time that a horse was beaten by a human in the race.

In 2004, the 25th race was won by Huw Lobb in 2 hours, 5 minutes and 19 seconds. It was the first time that a man racing on foot has won the race, thereby winning the prize fund of £25,000 ($31,786.40 at the time), which had been growing by £1,000 each year from the race's inception until claimed by a winning runner. The year's race also saw the highest ever number of competitors; 500 runners and 40 horses. The feat was repeated in 2007, when human competitors outpaced the first equine competitor by up to 11 minutes.

But note:

The 2009 race was marred by controversy when the organizers deducted time spent in the 'vet checks' from the horse times in addition to the 15 minutes for the delayed start of the horses.

(my underlining)

 

[Vertigo]

My understanding is that early humans ability to track and run down their prey through endurance was their one crucial advantage where they had few other suitable predator advantages (big claws, teeth etc.). And as @Lumens states our ability to sweat was one component of that as was our ability to twist easily at the waist giving us a remarkably efficient long distance running gait.

It is also thought that developing the ability to sweat might be what allowed the development of our relatively large brain as that generates a lot of heat that must be dispelled in hot conditions.

 

[Overread]

A lot of prey animals are rather like cheetahs - they are built for a massive burst of short term speed. This short term speed is designed to make an initial escape and thereafter returning to the herd or hiding or otherwise entering more suitable terrain for defence etc... As a result you see that many predators work on speed as well as stalking; getting close so that prey don't get a chance for their escape burst to work fully.

Another tactic is like humans and species such as wolves where its essentially an endurance hunt.

I think horses, esp in modern times where people are very disconnected from them, are seen as a "go fast" option over short and long term. It doesn't help that films, games, media and general books all translate this same idea in general - if you've got a horse you're going faster. And for most people they see a horse; they see it RACE and it is going fast; faster than most people can go today.

 

[Kerrybuchanan]

Just for the record, horses sweat, too. Boy, do they sweat! They are one of a handful of mammals, including humans, that can use sweat to regulate their temperature.

There's a Wikipedia article here that talks about persisitence hunting. I know: Wikipaedia. Still, it covers the questions above quite nicely.

 

[Danny McG]

Persistence hunting! So it is a real thing, it looks like a fit human could eventually catch a horse then.
The link is doubly fascinating as it mentions the Lykov family. I had a very faint memory of them being in the media in early eighties but the details were long lost in the fog of memory.