A place for horse related questions

[SPoots]

That's excellent, thanks so much.

 

[Kylara]

Sorry Cathbad, but not entirely true.

The bit of harness that goes round the bum is called the breeching - they work as brakes on a carriage without (but frequently used with as well) as the horse slows it takes more weight into the breeching, slowing it down.

A coach has brakes - frequently also have things called 'shoe' brakes which are operated by one of the grooms - they ram a wedge on one of the wheels to brake - gets real hot but does the job. Most coaches have brakes, but the horses slow it down as well.

Sharp corners are not a good idea with a coach as it is likely to tip over if too fast.

One of our showing carriages has brakes so we don't put breeching on as the ponies are small and it looks better.

Most carriages have some form of brake. Our marathon carriage has disc brakes for sharp stopping and turning etc.

A horse or team of horses have to be able to reverse a carriage or coach - hence the breeching - they push into the breeching and the carriage goes backwards.

 

[Cathbad]

A coach has brakes - frequently also have things called 'shoe' brakes which are operated by one of the grooms - they ram a wedge on one of the wheels to brake - gets real hot but does the job

Thank you - never knew those were actually used to slow the coach!

 

[Overread]

Think of a horse and coach like a car and trailer; a very small coach or cart might well only have a brake to lock its wheels when at rest; but any one of any size is going to have its own brakes because its putting a greater amount of weight into motion and thus needs a lot more force to stop it safely and at a steady rate with the horse in front. It also puts far less strain on the horse to slow a heavy coach along with slowing the horses.

Don't forget if going down hill you might well need the brakes to help steady the decent least the wheels freewheeled away and you lost control.

Similarly that reminds me that people might oft alight from a carriage when faced with a steep incline so that the horses had less to pull up the hill.

 

[SPoots]

Great, thanks everyone, this clears things up a lot.

 

[Elventine]

Oh! Ok I know that this may be an old thread but I know of a forum who has just listed a whole lot of horse related information that might be helpful to future authors wandering over to this thread -


General Information About Horses and Other Animals In History and Modern Times

 

[Montero]

Thought I'd add my new horse question to this thread rather than starting a new thread.
My question is one for people who know both horses and sheep. I know sheep well, and horses only in passing.

So, sheep are notorious for being good at hiding the early signs of illness, and so you can be late in picking up on problems. (I am pretty good these days through knowing my few sheep as individuals - and how likely it is for a particular individual to be hanging back.) How do sick horses compare to sick sheep? Do they show symptoms sooner than sheep, or are they as good as sheep at hiding they are ill?

 

[Kerrybuchanan]

Unfortunately there's no easy answer. Horses vary, and we've had one who hid a spinal issue for years that must have been causing her agony. Another horse of ours comes in from the field hopping lame (broken leg level of lameness) with nothing but a mild bruised sole. As a rule of thumb, ponies and cobs are tougher than horses (especially thoroughbreds, she says bitterly) and harder to spot illness in.

If you're thinking of writing a section where a horse either does or doesn't hide an illness, I'd be happy to read it and comment.

 

[Montero]

Thanks. I was thinking of an animal hospital in the background of the story and a sheep person having to deal with horses. When I get there I will take you up on your kind offer.
(I plan ahead a bit....)

 

[Montero]

Further question - in terms of the animal hospital being reasonably financially viable they need a majority of profitable clients. So with horses, who is the most likely to pay tons of money to their horse back to health?
Racehorse owners?
Racehorse owners but only for potential breeding stock so not geldings?
Pet ponies?
Hunters?
Showjumper/dressage/three day eventers?
Carriage/draft horses?
Rare breeds?

Or is it depends on the individual?

Further question - I once visited a place where they had several horses wandering around loose and one came over to me. The owners instantly said "keep away from him. He's an ex-racehorse and is likely to hurt you."
So is that true of a lot of racehorses? And is it a breed thing, or the way they were trained thing?

 

[Overread]

A few answers from the inexperienced:

1) All animals have the capacity to "hide" pain and sickness. Even humans are very adapt at doing this and this is when we know about doctors and such. Animals don't always have the concept of vets in their mind as a way to relieve pain (if anything a good few often adopt the opposite viewpoint of vets). So not only might they hide pain because of survival skills, but also because there's no means in their world to cure it.

That said as noted some animals will be very apt to show pain; some can even learn to abuse it and will limp or whine or appear in trouble when in reality they are just seeking attention. Chap I worked with who does horse logging noted that he'd leave his horses tied up at events and sometimes one would appear to get his leg tangled in rope. Which of course prompts attention from passers by to resolve it - however the horse was purely using it to get attention and if left alone would slip his leg free of the rope without issue.

2) The "Dangerous ex-racehorse" comment could come from three sources:
a) It could still be a stallion or have been gelded very late. Stallions tend to be classed as "more unpredictable" however in my observations its more that they are a bit more free willed and more apt to be more horsey minded than people minded. Which means their language is very subtle body language which, if you're not clued into horses, can be very hard to pick up on. As a result they can be more "unpredictable" to many because they just don't see the subtle language going on.
There is also a bit of a stigma around stallions being more dangerous, its not unfounded, but my impression is that some cultures/groups are less experienced with them and as a result they gain this air of vastly increased danger. Which can cause people to be more fearful around them which - the horse picks up on. Remembering that horses are flight animals and very big so any fear reaction is a bigger issue. Ironically this latter point can mean that in some situations an ignorant novice is actually "safer" around some stallions than an experienced person

b) Race horses tend to be bred to be very reactive horses. This can mean they are more apt to be sudden with motions and might scare more easily than some other breeds like a draft horse. Again this comes down to body language noted above. You might get a lot of warnings and just not pick up on them because its small angle differences in the ears; the way the tail is flicking, the breathing etc....

c) That the particular horse itself is more apt to be dangerous to the inexperienced/in general and "he's a race horse" is the reason/excuse used. Sometimes these "he's a race horse/stallion/nutter" etc... comments aren't factual as such, but more a cover-all quick answer that is adopted as the "reason" and which can sometimes add weight to a statement. He's not just "dangerous" he's "race horse dangerous".

 

[Kerrybuchanan]

Further question - in terms of the animal hospital being reasonably financially viable they need a majority of profitable clients. So with horses, who is the most likely to pay tons of money to their horse back to health?
Racehorse owners?
Racehorse owners but only for potential breeding stock so not geldings?
Pet ponies?
Hunters?
Showjumper/dressage/three day eventers?
Carriage/draft horses?
Rare breeds?

Or is it depends on the individual?

Further question - I once visited a place where they had several horses wandering around loose and one came over to me. The owners instantly said "keep away from him. He's an ex-racehorse and is likely to hurt you."
So is that true of a lot of racehorses? And is it a breed thing, or the way they were trained thing?

Speaking as a retired vet, the most likely group to pay up are the owners of family pet type horses. The big thoroughbred breeding yards spend millions on veterinary care, but it’s a business so it has to be profitable. The expensive, well-bred horses or successful horses on the track will earn the right to bigger vet bills than any other racehorse or performance horse.
The fact is, there’s very little money in horses full stop.
A horse that a little girl adores might get money poured into it by doting parents, even when they can’t really afford it!
As the owner of several ex racehorses, I wonder if the owner of that one was trying to protect the horse from you, a stranger, rather than you from the horse. As a rule, they’re the gentlest, best behaved of the equine family because they’ve seen everything and done everything during their racing careers. They are bred to be quick, so they’re not just for anyone when it comes to riding (a bit like driving a formula 1 racing car after the family estate car), but if that individual horse was a grumpy b****r, then it was probably just his personality not his background as a racehorse. They’re individuals and they are affected by their experiences. If he’d had a rough time in the past, bullied or beaten, he may have learned to get the first bite in. That is the case for any horse, not just racehorses.
I’d trust an ex-racehorse over a pony any day of the week! Vicious little pests at times, ponies! Again, probably due to human mishandling (feeding titbits by hand, thinking it’s cute).

 

[Joshua Jones]

I grew up on the opposite side of the equation from @Kerrybuchanan; on a dressage farm. We spend absolute buckets of money on veterinary care, but when you're dealing with pedigreed horses from championship lines halfway through their riding career, the existing investment is pretty substantial, even before you take into account the emotional investment. To give you an example, my mom's primary showhorse right now is Art Class, whose dam (mom) is from the Bey Shah line (a very popular Arabian line) and sire was Art Deco (who was a Dutch Warmblood ultimately from Man O'War, popular enough to have a Breyer horse made after him). Just getting the sperm for an artificial insemination was something like $8,000. When he turned 3, prior to any training, he was valued at about $45,000. Add to that now 10 or so years of training and the local shows he has won, he is likely worth about $60,000 at this point. So, yeah, if he get's sick, my mom won't think twice about calling in the vet or loading him up to take him to New Bolton Veterinary Hospital (one of the best horse veterinary hospitals on the east coast of America) about 3 hours away. So, yeah, I would argue competitive dressage riders are quite likely to pay extensive amounts of money for veterinary care.

Race horses are kind of a funny thing. Their careers tend to last 2-5 years, compared to a dressage horse who can have a 15-20 year career provided there are no serious injuries. And, with race horses at least here in the States, retired horses are either kept for breeding if they were competitive, or auctioned if not (or, unfortunately, sometimes abandoned). Rumor the two most common purchasers of former racehorses here are rescue charities and dog food manufacturers. While it would be inaccurate to say race breeders don't care for their horses (as Kerry noted above), the early retirement age is decidedly factored into the equation when considering veterinary care.

Regarding racehorse temperament, I completely agree with Kerry with one caveat. Not only were they bred for speed, they were also trained for it. This can make training a race horse for English style riding like dressage much more challenging, as sometimes they have not even been trained to trot or canter, much less the more intricate dressage training. Race horses certainly may shine as trail riding horses and especially as western style riding, but it is a tough transition between racing and dressage, and this is probably where some of the stigma arises for race horses.

And one more point of agreement with Kerry; ponies can be the miniature dogs of the horse world. While some can be great, others can be nasty critters with flaring tempers. Arabians too... Art Class' dam was the most stubborn horse I've ever met, but only toward men! Any woman could do whatever with her, but she wouldn't let any man, including me and my brothers, lead her in.

 

[Montero]

Thank you both of you. One quick question (it's before breakfast ) regarding the mare who distinguished between men and women. Do you know how she did it? Just wondering if she would be confused by a long haired man or a short haired woman.
Our sheep can recognise us as individuals but include clothes as part of the recognition - when you change a jacket, or stop wearing one, they semi-recognise you, or don't like the change, and give you hhhhm looks and don't come as close, but don't run away as from a stranger.

 

[Kerrybuchanan]

I grew up on the opposite side of the equation from @Kerrybuchanan; on a dressage farm. We spend absolute buckets of money on veterinary care, but when you're dealing with pedigreed horses from championship lines halfway through their riding career, the existing investment is pretty substantial, even before you take into account the emotional investment. To give you an example, my mom's primary showhorse right now is Art Class, whose dam (mom) is from the Bey Shah line (a very popular Arabian line) and sire was Art Deco (who was a Dutch Warmblood ultimately from Man O'War, popular enough to have a Breyer horse made after him). Just getting the sperm for an artificial insemination was something like $8,000. When he turned 3, prior to any training, he was valued at about $45,000. Add to that now 10 or so years of training and the local shows he has won, he is likely worth about $60,000 at this point. So, yeah, if he get's sick, my mom won't think twice about calling in the vet or loading him up to take him to New Bolton Veterinary Hospital (one of the best horse veterinary hospitals on the east coast of America) about 3 hours away. So, yeah, I would argue competitive dressage riders are quite likely to pay extensive amounts of money for veterinary care.

Race horses are kind of a funny thing. Their careers tend to last 2-5 years, compared to a dressage horse who can have a 15-20 year career provided there are no serious injuries. And, with race horses at least here in the States, retired horses are either kept for breeding if they were competitive, or auctioned if not (or, unfortunately, sometimes abandoned). Rumor the two most common purchasers of former racehorses here are rescue charities and dog food manufacturers. While it would be inaccurate to say race breeders don't care for their horses (as Kerry noted above), the early retirement age is decidedly factored into the equation when considering veterinary care.

Regarding racehorse temperament, I completely agree with Kerry with one caveat. Not only were they bred for speed, they were also trained for it. This can make training a race horse for English style riding like dressage much more challenging, as sometimes they have not even been trained to trot or canter, much less the more intricate dressage training. Race horses certainly may shine as trail riding horses and especially as western style riding, but it is a tough transition between racing and dressage, and this is probably where some of the stigma arises for race horses.

And one more point of agreement with Kerry; ponies can be the miniature dogs of the horse world. While some can be great, others can be nasty critters with flaring tempers. Arabians too... Art Class' dam was the most stubborn horse I've ever met, but only toward men! Any woman could do whatever with her, but she wouldn't let any man, including me and my brothers, lead her in.

I was tempted to go into the different equestrian disciplines, but I was typing on my phone with sore fingers, so cut it down to just racing. I agree with pretty much everything you said above, though.

There is certainly bias in Irish dressage circles against TBs competing at dressage. My daughter took one of our ex-racers (who, as you rightly said) had only three paces when he came to us as a rescue: slouching walk, jiggle, and flat-out gallop. He'd also acquired a nasty bucking habit since his racing days, which his previous owner had compounded. Every time he bucked her off, he'd run back to his stable where she would give him a big bowl of food. For four years. It took my daughter two years to teach him that bucking her off only meant he'd have to work harder as soon as she hopped back on again (once she'd spat the sand out).

She took him from being unable to canter on the correct lead on the left rein to Elementary dressage, working towards flying changes, and winning a national award. There were, however, some judges who were so biased that if she saw them in the car at the end of the arena, she knew she could write-off that test. He was always harder work than her other horses, and often tense and stiff (some of that due to old injuries), except for the warmblood who broke her pelvis and the youngster who broke her jaw, but he is and always has been a complete gentleman in every other way. Our local kids' pony club used him as a demo horse and he had wee ones climbing all over him, plaiting his mane and tail, bandaging him, and one enterprising young spark decided to brush his belly by sitting on the ground beneath him. Until the instructor spotted her...

Ex-racers do get a bad rep., which I truly believe is largely unwarranted. I've known very many of them over the years, and I'd still choose an ex-racer over almost any other type for most activities. Some people take them straight from the track, when they've been fed high-energy feed and trained to run fast in a fairly straight line. A retired racehorse needs a long let-down period, then a good bit of patience, but they repay the patient owner a thousand times over.

I love Arabs, too. Once, when attending a client who bred Arabians, we were standing watching a pair of two-year-olds showing off in the next field, tails flying like banners, nostrils flaring. I commented that no other breed had the grace and elegance of an Arabian. The words were barely out of my mouth when one of them slipped on a cow pat and fell on his side, winded. The other one (head tossing, not looking where he was going) promptly tripped over the first one, landed on its nose and skidded down the hill like Bambi, legs all akimbo. The breeder and I just watched in silence, then turned away. Horses love to make fools of their humans.

Thank you both of you. One quick question (it's before breakfast ) regarding the mare who distinguished between men and women. Do you know how she did it? Just wondering if she would be confused by a long haired man or a short haired woman.
Our sheep can recognise us as individuals but include clothes as part of the recognition - when you change a jacket, or stop wearing one, they semi-recognise you, or don't like the change, and give you hhhhm looks and don't come as close, but don't run away as from a stranger.

None of ours have shown a preference for either sex, but as far as clothing goes, one has an aversion to anyone with their hood pulled up. He'll run a mile, snorting in fear if anyone approaches him like that. As soon as you drop the hood, he's like, Oh, it's you. Phew. Thought you were a demon. Sorry.

I've heard theories about horses with preference for women over men, and met a couple of them as a vet, where the owners would have only me attend because the male vets couldn't get near the animal. Some think it's to do with either voice (deeper) or scent (dare I say smellier?*). I'm not sure there's enough evidence for any theory to hold water.

*Men being the smellier ones, obviously. Probably didn't need to point that out, but hey-ho.

 

[Montero]

Thank you all of you, that is just the sort of material I need to make sure I get it right. And really interesting in its own right too. All very much individuals of varying brain.
My own horse experience is ponies at riding school until age 11 - one hour a week - a few books and then many years later carefully avoiding the cavalry at ECWS musters. Especially the rear ends. Saw one horse get in a paddy, lash out several times with hind feet at a very sturdy, large hand cart, and wreck it.

@Overread - thank you for all of that. Particularly love the horse seeking attention by getting deliberately tangled. Some of our sheep seek snacks and yearn through the gate at us but don't do the get tangled for attention thing. Did have one who had a foot abscess that took a while of treatment to sort out - and she had extra food during it as she wasn't grazing properly. For a year or more after, she'd wave the formerly dodgy foot at us when treat seeking.

@Joshua Jones - huh - Didn't know much about ex-racehorses and dressage and the complexities of that are interesting. Also dressage horses long working lifetime.

@Kerrybuchanan Thank you. Fell around laughing at the Arabian story. The race horse and dressage info interesting too.

Also to all of you on ponies - I'd got the general impression that some ponies were cunning, destructive, wily little wotsits - very useful to have it confirmed. I was taught never to offer chopped apple over the gate to ponies/horses as they then expect all visitors to give it to them and will get stroppy with the ones who don't. Some similarity with cats there.
Also on people giving the wrong message to horses. Seriously. Joined up thinking where are you.

 

[Overread]

Interesting note which isn't directly about horses - there's a clip of QI (tv show) where they were talking about groundhogs and how they'd been using computers to help decode their language. It turned out that, far as they could tell, the groundhogs couldn't tell male from female (or weren't communicating that information to each other) but could tell different coloured jumpers that the scientists were wearing. So how animals tell us apart might be very different to how we do it.
On the subject of male to female bias I've heard the adage of it being voice or scent, but I've also spoken to some who think that its also way they are trained when young; with there being a bias toward more men than women being more likely to be using the "stick" whilst more women than men use the "carrot" approach. Of course there's also a massive generational game going on here as its my impression that animal training post WWII was very much in the "use the stick" camp and that steadily over the last half a century or more we've shifted more toward methods that use more animal communication and "carrot" approaches. Ergo a shift from force and pressure to one of encouragement and mutual benefit. One person even said that this bias doesn't even just stop with the gender of the trainer, but can also be influenced by the nature of the animal - instructors more willing to be harsh/stick with a stallion than with a mare or gelding.
Again these are very big generalisations and might only account for a proportion of the difference in how animals react to people of different genders - or indeed dress, mannerisms, accent etc....


Our understanding of animal intelligence and their perception and communication of the world around them is honestly in its infancy. Hindered by the fact that sound sight and smell are not the same through all species. So it can be hard to identify things that are being communicated (and thus are details that the animals pick up on) when the information might be something near invisible to ourselves.
Compound this with animals having variation in how they talk (there's a quote somewhere that cows have different "accents" depending on where they come from in a country) and even in how they are brought up and will talk. Some animals clearly "get" humans better than others whilst some are clearly more akin to their own kind and don't "get" communicating with humans etc...


Personally I've long held the view that our understanding of animal intelligence is often less than the animals are actually capable of. The barrier isn't so much their intelligence, but in our ability to speak to them in a way that unlocks a bridge that allows the exchange of more detailed information, ideas and instructions. Of course bolted onto that is the animal having the willingness/desire to co-operate.

 

[Montero]

We think our cockerels learn to crow from the older cockerel and they all sound similar to each other - and different to the cockerel a mile away.

Some humans don't "get" communicating with other humans........

I think that some of our cats, and some of our sheep, have more intelligence, or at least ability to function in the world, than some humans.

 

[Joshua Jones]

Thank you both of you. One quick question (it's before breakfast ) regarding the mare who distinguished between men and women. Do you know how she did it? Just wondering if she would be confused by a long haired man or a short haired woman.
Our sheep can recognise us as individuals but include clothes as part of the recognition - when you change a jacket, or stop wearing one, they semi-recognise you, or don't like the change, and give you hhhhm looks and don't come as close, but don't run away as from a stranger.

To be honest, I haven't the foggiest how she could tell the difference, but she would rather be led in by my grandmother (whom she literally had never seen before) than me or either of my brothers who lived there and spent time with her and the others every day. It was one of the strangest things I've ever seen with horses.

Preference for women honestly isn't universal among horses, though. I was in my early 20s on summer holiday from university when a 16 year old girl came to the house looking for my mom. She had been trying for 45 minutes to load her horse onto the trailer for a show, but couldn't. I informed her my mom had already left for the show (she was judging that day), but I would he happy to lend a hand. The girl was skeptical, clearly thinking, "Right, this guy is going to load my horse when I can't...". 5 minutes and 2 attempts later, the horse was on, with no assistance whatsoever from her. She didn't speak to me for a solid year after that...

I was tempted to go into the different equestrian disciplines, but I was typing on my phone with sore fingers, so cut it down to just racing. I agree with pretty much everything you said above, though.

There is certainly bias in Irish dressage circles against TBs competing at dressage. My daughter took one of our ex-racers (who, as you rightly said) had only three paces when he came to us as a rescue: slouching walk, jiggle, and flat-out gallop. He'd also acquired a nasty bucking habit since his racing days, which his previous owner had compounded. Every time he bucked her off, he'd run back to his stable where she would give him a big bowl of food. For four years. It took my daughter two years to teach him that bucking her off only meant he'd have to work harder as soon as she hopped back on again (once she'd spat the sand out).

She took him from being unable to canter on the correct lead on the left rein to Elementary dressage, working towards flying changes, and winning a national award. There were, however, some judges who were so biased that if she saw them in the car at the end of the arena, she knew she could write-off that test. He was always harder work than her other horses, and often tense and stiff (some of that due to old injuries), except for the warmblood who broke her pelvis and the youngster who broke her jaw, but he is and always has been a complete gentleman in every other way. Our local kids' pony club used him as a demo horse and he had wee ones climbing all over him, plaiting his mane and tail, bandaging him, and one enterprising young spark decided to brush his belly by sitting on the ground beneath him. Until the instructor spotted her...

Ex-racers do get a bad rep., which I truly believe is largely unwarranted. I've known very many of them over the years, and I'd still choose an ex-racer over almost any other type for most activities. Some people take them straight from the track, when they've been fed high-energy feed and trained to run fast in a fairly straight line. A retired racehorse needs a long let-down period, then a good bit of patience, but they repay the patient owner a thousand times over.

I love Arabs, too. Once, when attending a client who bred Arabians, we were standing watching a pair of two-year-olds showing off in the next field, tails flying like banners, nostrils flaring. I commented that no other breed had the grace and elegance of an Arabian. The words were barely out of my mouth when one of them slipped on a cow pat and fell on his side, winded. The other one (head tossing, not looking where he was going) promptly tripped over the first one, landed on its nose and skidded down the hill like Bambi, legs all akimbo. The breeder and I just watched in silence, then turned away. Horses love to make fools of their humans.




None of ours have shown a preference for either sex, but as far as clothing goes, one has an aversion to anyone with their hood pulled up. He'll run a mile, snorting in fear if anyone approaches him like that. As soon as you drop the hood, he's like, Oh, it's you. Phew. Thought you were a demon. Sorry.

I've heard theories about horses with preference for women over men, and met a couple of them as a vet, where the owners would have only me attend because the male vets couldn't get near the animal. Some think it's to do with either voice (deeper) or scent (dare I say smellier?*). I'm not sure there's enough evidence for any theory to hold water.

*Men being the smellier ones, obviously. Probably didn't need to point that out, but hey-ho.

Unfortunately, the bias against TBs isn't limited to Irish dressage circles. Personally, I feel horses should be judged on their execution, not their breed, but what do I know?

Thank you for sharing your amazing horse stories btw! They bring me back to my childhood on the farm in so many ways... The trainer who rewarded bucking should be drug out into the street, unless she was training him to be a bronco or something. Either way, it's extremely dangerous to either do that or allow the horse to change hands without that information being communicated...

Good on your daughter though for her persistence in retraining him! And yes, I love the temperament of TBs... with some work and patience they are excellent horses. Unfortunately, so many of their stories end in tragedy because people are unwilling to do either, or someone says, "Hey! Cheap horse at auction! Let's buy it for my 6 year old as a pet, never spend the money to have it/my daughter properly trained, then blame the horse when it takes off at full gallop like it was trained to do! Brilliant!"

I love the visual of the kids with the horse... I just picture him standing there, staring at the trainer like, "Really? You owe me a carrot and a nice bareback walk in the pasture for this... Might want to attend to this little creature underneath me too..." We also had local groups come out for basic horsemanship camps over summers, and we had this beautiful retired Appaloosa showhorse named St. Just Juliet who was ideal for such situations. She was incredibly gentle and intelligent, so she was always patient with the kids. She also literally saved my life once... I was 8 or so and riding her when she suddenly did a right leg yield at the trot without my command, then continued her trot like nothing happened. On my next loop, I found an arrow, apparently fired into the air by the neighbor kids, sunk into the ground where she leg yielded. Somehow, she managed to see it, avoid it without spooking, and carry on with business as usual...

Then there was Rising Eagle... this horse was a character. Same sire as the aforementioned Art Class, she brought him up to Inter Two level and was working on Grand Prix (Olympic level) before he started slowing down. Yet, he would regularly sneak drinks of Coca-Cola, straight from the cups of random passers by who stopped to speak with my mom. But ONLY Coca-Cola... any other soda and he would either pull back disgusted at the terrible taste these humans had or snort into it... He also had a strong affection for a licorice candy called Good and Plenty...

And yes, Arabians are such incredible horses. I'm a little big for one (at 6'2" I really like a horse somewhere around 17 hands or above), but I love their speed and agility. They really are ideal for dressage in many respects.

BTW, in case anyone is interested, this is my mom on Rising Eagle (his barn name was Holland to the image name reflects that)

And this is his half brother, Art Class.

 

[Joshua Jones]

Thank you all of you, that is just the sort of material I need to make sure I get it right. And really interesting in its own right too. All very much individuals of varying brain.
My own horse experience is ponies at riding school until age 11 - one hour a week - a few books and then many years later carefully avoiding the cavalry at ECWS musters. Especially the rear ends. Saw one horse get in a paddy, lash out several times with hind feet at a very sturdy, large hand cart, and wreck it.

@Overread - thank you for all of that. Particularly love the horse seeking attention by getting deliberately tangled. Some of our sheep seek snacks and yearn through the gate at us but don't do the get tangled for attention thing. Did have one who had a foot abscess that took a while of treatment to sort out - and she had extra food during it as she wasn't grazing properly. For a year or more after, she'd wave the formerly dodgy foot at us when treat seeking.

@Joshua Jones - huh - Didn't know much about ex-racehorses and dressage and the complexities of that are interesting. Also dressage horses long working lifetime.

@Kerrybuchanan Thank you. Fell around laughing at the Arabian story. The race horse and dressage info interesting too.

Also to all of you on ponies - I'd got the general impression that some ponies were cunning, destructive, wily little wotsits - very useful to have it confirmed. I was taught never to offer chopped apple over the gate to ponies/horses as they then expect all visitors to give it to them and will get stroppy with the ones who don't. Some similarity with cats there.
Also on people giving the wrong message to horses. Seriously. Joined up thinking where are you.

One other little tidbit that may prove useful to you. At least in the States with dressage riders, it is relatively common, when a primary showhorse dies, to cut off the tail after the bone and preserve it as a memorial. My mom has St. Just Juliet's and Rising Eagle's tails displayed, along with a framed photo and most of the ribbons and awards they won on their own walls.