Redemption

[The Imp]

Thanks Arstan, that is what I trying to say. In the eyes of the reader, Davos is not in need of redemption. We see him as "good" and sense that he always has been, smuggler or not.

My point was, Dav os had already been redeemed by GRRM. As Arsten correctly points out, we didn't know him "pre Onion Knight". The fact that Davos is a very decent man, perhaps one of the most decent men in the book, doesn't mean we would have thought that of him before the story started.

 

[Needle]

Point taken, can even agree. I think I would have liked him anyway. Girls like a little tinge of bad boy ya know!

 

[svalbard]

Redemption...I was thinking along the lines of Fifty Shades of Grey

Seriously though, it is a major part of Martin's world. Personally it makes many of the characters real for me as I read through the series. Something I worked out is that once he decides to give a character a POV chapter it is then the redemption starts for them. God forbid we see one from Ramsay Bolton in the next book.

 

[The Imp]

Redemption...I was thinking along the lines of Fifty Shades of Grey

Seriously though, it is a major part of Martin's world. Personally it makes many of the characters real for me as I read through the series. Something I worked out is that once he decides to give a character a POV chapter it is then the redemption starts for them. God forbid we see one from Ramsay Bolton in the next book.

Kevan, Merrett, Pate, Lady Stoneheart, Arys, Varamyr and maybe someone I'm leaving out all disagree

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

Kevan, Merrett, Pate, Lady Stoneheart, Arys, Varamyr and maybe someone I'm leaving out all disagree

Cersei

'Nuff said

 

[The Imp]

Cersei

'Nuff said

not NEARLY "nuff said" so please elaborate. Are you saying Cersei's redemption started with her first POV chapter? Many here would disagree with the idea that she's redeemable at all, let alone that her redemption has already begun.

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

Redemption...I was thinking along the lines of Fifty Shades of Grey

Seriously though, it is a major part of Martin's world. Personally it makes many of the characters real for me as I read through the series. Something I worked out is that once he decides to give a character a POV chapter it is then the redemption starts for them. God forbid we see one from Ramsay Bolton in the next book.

I think that Arsten wanted to refute that bolded part by using Cersai as an example.

 

[The Imp]

I think that Arsten wanted to refute that bolded part by using Cersai as an example.

makes perfect sense

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

Yes that was what I was saying. I personally feel that Cersei is irredeemable and hope she dies a long, drawn out death that spans multiple chapters and is incredibly painful.

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

Yes that was what I was saying. I personally feel that Cersei is irredeemable and hope she dies a long, drawn out death that spans multiple chapters and is incredibly painful.

It is such a shame Red Viper won't be the one to deal her the final blow. The death like Gregor's might be just what Cersei deserves.

 

[juleska]

It is such a shame Red Viper won't be the one to deal her the final blow. The death like Gregor's might be just what Cersei deserves.

That is totally twisted and demented and precisely what I hope will happen.

 

[The Imp]

I sort of wished that on Theon, then I ended up feeling sorry for him when he was forced to become Reek.

Maybe Ramsay's next hunting dog wil be named Cersei.

 

[Eulalia]

There's quite a list of the definitely not redeemed, over and out.

Joffrey
Viserys
Lysa
Balon
Aerys

Though each of these characters has some slightly redeeming circumstances, I suppose. Was anyone sorry when they died?

 

[devilsgrin]

Viserys, was sorry when he died. Would very much have liked to see Viserys around for longer. He had potential i feel, he was wasted, and killed off in a scene designed almost entirely for a television scene.

 

[The Imp]

Viserys, was sorry when he died. Would very much have liked to see Viserys around for longer. He had potential i feel, he was wasted, and killed off in a scene designed almost entirely for a television scene.

You think that GRRM envisioned the TV series when he wrote aGoT nearly two decades before the HBO series? I doubt it, espcially given how he had been burned a few times by the TV industry, but I'm certainly open to hearing why you believe this.

 

[The Imp]

There's quite a list of the definitely not redeemed, over and out.

Joffrey
Viserys
Lysa
Balon
Aerys

Though each of these characters has some slightly redeeming circumstances, I suppose. Was anyone sorry when they died?

Joffrey My only problem with Joffresy's death is that it was over too quickly and he didn't get to suffer enough. I suppose that cersei's ongoing grief somewhat makes up for that.

Viserys I pitied him and I didn't particularly want him to die, but there was really no room in the story for a "dominant" make Targ.

Lysa Lysa was infuriating but I didn't wish her dead. In another life she'd be a homeless person pushing a shopping cart around. Instaead, she married a Lord and passed her bad genes on to her son.

Balon I would have preferred to have seen him locked in a room with Aeron, with his hands tied to his sides so he couldn't cover his eyes. he was certainly a miserable old *******, and I'm not sorry he died, he just got off too easy

Aerys Duh

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

I sort of wished that on Theon, then I ended up feeling sorry for him when he was forced to become Reek.

Maybe Ramsay's next hunting dog wil be named Cersei.

I really do hope so!

Joffrey My only problem with Joffresy's death is that it was over too quickly and he didn't get to suffer enough. I suppose that cersei's ongoing grief somewhat makes up for that.

Viserys I pitied him and I didn't particularly want him to die, but there was really no room in the story for a "dominant" make Targ.

Lysa Lysa was infuriating but I didn't wish her dead. In another life she'd be a homeless person pushing a shopping cart around. Instaead, she married a Lord and passed her bad genes on to her son.

Balon I would have preferred to have seen him locked in a room with Aeron, with his hands tied to his sides so he couldn't cover his eyes. he was certainly a miserable old *******, and I'm not sorry he died, he just got off too easy

Aerys Duh

I agree with all of these except for Viserys. I absolutely hated him. I think what bothered me so much about him was that he had such a false sense of entitlement. I get that he was supposed to be a prince and should have inherited a kingdom. But after what happened to his family during the revolution, You would think he would realize that it isn't enough to just be Targ. In fact, being a Targ wasn't a good thing to advertise, considering how many people wanted his family dead, but he still thought it was enough and that everyone should just obey him. He even thought he could boss around Khal Drogo in his own "city".

Just my 2 cents though.

 

[Eulalia]

Joffrey
It's hard to recall when I've felt like cheering quite so much. Didn't suffer enough, but the suspense building was great and his behaviour with Tyrion and Sansa made it that much better.

Viserys.
His abusive, arrogant behaviour made me satisfied when he died. He showed signs of being a baby Aerys. He was understandable, and not quite as bad as the rest.

Lysa.
Yes, I think she might have pushed a shopping cart in a powerless position. However her background makes her pitiable, she did some very nasty things. She murdered her husband, who was a fairly decent fellow. She tried to kill Sansa. She infantilized her son in a creepy way. I mean, sometimes you see parents who foster dependency to get their needs met, and fail to prepare their children for life, but that figure takes the cake. She threatens or disposes of people trying to help Robert, even her husband or Catelyn. Even though Tyrion is a Lannister, Lysa tries to get him killed for something that she did. I was not at all sorry to see her go, especially in the middle of her murder attempt! Nice auntie.

Balon
Not sorry.

Aerys
Not many people sorry to see him go.

I suppose Tywin is another one. Boinking Shae (while being a hypocrite about prostitutes), the episode with Tysha, and everything else with Tyrion. I was not sorry at all about the crossbow.

The Freys and the pie. Not sorry. But they are not first tier characters.

Most on Arya's list except the Hound.