Being Polite

[Mouse]

I wasn't going to say anything because we've had threads on this before, but it's really starting to get on my wick now.

If you ask for a critique it's nice to say THANK YOU to the people who've bothered to comment. Even if you don't agree with what they're saying, just say thanks!

Grr!

I've had it several times recently where the person who's asked for help hasn't even acknowledged me. I'm not speaking to myself, you know. Not only does it bother me when it happens to me, but it winds me up something chronic when I see other people being ignored too.

My godfathers, just write 'ta' if it's that difficult!

That is all.

 

[Jake Reynolds]

Totally agree, and my deepest apologies if I have ever not said thank you to any involved in any comments on my wips.

 

[HareBrain]

You can't just write "ta" -- it doesn't meet the character-count requirement.

It doesn't bother me much, I have to say. Most people write "thanks in advance" or something in their initial post. It's nice if they do more (and I think I do myself), but if they crit other people's work and generally contribute to the site, I can't get worked up about it.

 

[Mouse]

You can write 'ta' and then put some white dots after it. Really though, it's not so hard to say 'thanks.' And yeah, I put 'thanks in advance' in my initial posts sometimes, but I still thank people after. And this isn't only in critiques - people will ask a question and then not bother acknowledging anybody replying to them.

It costs nothing to be polite.

And you know what - there's one in critiques at the moment, that hasn't thanked in advance, hasn't thanked anybody after and frankly, doesn't contribute much around the site, and the only person saying thank you in that whole thread is one of the critiquers!! So yeah, I'm annoyed.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

There is indeed. And, I think, that there is an element of voting with my feet in these cases. I don't crit again if I think someone is taking advantage. I am, though, aware that I post more than my fair share, so I try to make sure I do more than I take. How helpful they are are another matter, so maybe my non posting stance isn't all that relevant.

 

[The Judge]

If you ask for a critique it's nice to say THANK YOU to the people who've bothered to comment. Even if you don't agree with what they're saying, just say thanks!

I think it's especially important then, to avoid the appearance of being in a complete huff about the critique, which will only make people more annoyed and/or upset and determined never to help again.

I think (I hope) it's forgetfulness, rather than a complete lack of manners in Critiques and elsewhere, but yes, it is important -- politeness is a kind of social lubrication that allows us to function without friction. But as HareBrain says, if the non-thanker is active around the site and helps other people, I try not to get too worked up about it and just put it down to different expectations (usually shaking my head and muttering about the younger generation, too -- that makes me feel better! ). But on the other hand people shouldn't allow it to get them down or riled up as it's bad for the blood pressure -- so Mouse, go and get a cup of tea!

 

[mosaix]

Dust yourself down, Mouse, and learn by the experience. Be content to know that your values, standards and manners are superior to those of some-others-who-you-won't-mention.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

I have to admit that when someone asks for advice and only acknowledges the suggestions they like, I feel like I don't ever want to comment in one of their threads again.

They don't have to say thank you to every individual poster, but some kind of reply like "interesting ideas everyone" or something like that is far better than ignoring most of the people who have taken the time to reply and tried to help.

 

[anthorn]

I agree, unfortunately I am rubbish at critiquing.
So, if anyone has critiqued my work and I have not said thank you I do so now.

 

[Warren_Paul]

I always respond to every post, and I'd expect the same of others.

 

[allmywires]

One of the reasons I don't critique much any more (and it's only one, I don't really have time for it anyway) is that half the time I feel like my suggestions are being ignored anyway, so why bother? it just needs to be a sentence, it's not hard. Definitely agree, and even if not intended it does come off a bit, well, inconsiderate.

Also agree that if it's an active and participant member of the fora it's more likely to be forgiven.

And hey, ease off the young'un bashing, TJ

 

[alchemist]

I agree, unfortunately I am rubbish at critiquing.

But we're all readers. We have an idea what works and what doesn't, and even if that's subjective it's worth presenting our thoughts to a writer.

Anyway, critiquing is good for our own writing. It encourages us to think about the process more and that can only be good for us.

 

[Hex]

I was just realising I hadn't thanked someone. Gah. Sorry -- and thank you everyone for any comments you have made or will make on my stuff in critiques (does that work?).

Maybe it's because I'm an offender too, but it doesn't bother me when people don't thank me. It upsets me more when they get defensive (even if they thank me too) or don't do crits for others.

ps: I didn't repond at once to the 2000th post critiques because I was trying to keep to the nice round number of 2000... perhaps that was a bit silly.

pps: argh! are we meant to produce a revised version of the text? It always takes me ages to absorb comments and decide what to do with them.

 

[Ursa major]

Mea culpa o), though not, I hope, for the case Mouse mentioned.

I posted my 11000th post thread on 6th October, i.e. in the middle of the Harper Voyager Open Door (= panic), which is a reason - but not an excuse - for my behaviour, which was to forget about the thread. Okay, I posted a couple of remarks in response to a few of the comments, but I haven't really gone back to the thread to answer all the comments and produce a revised version of the text.

I'll try to get something done about this at the weekend.


(But I do agree with TJ: Mouse needs at least one or two shades of Earl Grey. )

 

[Warren_Paul]

One of the reasons I don't critique much any more (and it's only one, I don't really have time for it anyway) is that half the time I feel like my suggestions are being ignored anyway, so why bother?

I get the same feeling sometimes, AMW. I've seen what I consider glaring errors in some pieces posted up, and even after I and other people comment on them, they still remain. I'm guessing the writer doesn't believe us - and that's fine, it's their choice - but if I see those same problems continuing into revisions, I usually don't critique the revised piece. Critiquing takes quite a bit of time that I could easily spend working on my own writing. I'm giving up my own time to help, and it really does become irritating when you know your comments aren't being heard.

pps: argh! are we meant to produce a revised version of the text? It always takes me ages to absorb comments and decide what to do with them.

I like to present a revised edition, even if it doesn't need any more critiquing done. I do this to show the people who contributed to helping me how much their comments improved my work. And because I like to share. It makes me happy when people enjoy reading what I post up, but I want them to truly enjoy it, and a flawed version won't do that. I want them to enjoy reading the best version of the scene I can write.

Granted I work through the comments really fast and can usually come up with an improved draft a day or two after receiving the critiques.

Speaking of which, I better go repost my redrafted first chapter in Writing Group, since Bowler is waiting patiently for the next installment after I put up only half it. - Better do a once over it first though.


Jeepers, Ursa. 11k posts...

 

[AnyaKimlin]

I've had occasions where I have missed a response, not deliberately but I thought comments had stopped coming.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

I have found three I forgot - I do try to respond to everyone but sometimes I assume the comments have stopped. Which is bad since Grinnel and hopewrites have given me a couple of lovely comments that must have come when like Ursa says I was panicking about getting mine into HarperVoyager. Thanks for making me look them up Mouse

TecDavid also added one to a synopsis.

oops didn't realise I had posted the first one.

 

[Warren_Paul]

Ha. I think we might be about to witness a mass resurrection of zombie threads.


Zombie thread wants braaaiiiiinnns... and thanks.

 

[Hex]

Mmm. See this is one reason I don't often post follow ups to my Critiques stuff (apart from the fact that things are simmering in my head) -- however brilliant a suggestion (and there are often many truly brilliant ones), sometimes I don't want to use it.

I can feel a bit sad when I make suggestions in Critiques and the writer doesn't pick them up, especially if it's something I feel strongly about, but ultimately it's not my work -- it's their's -- and it's up to them.

I think taking on everything that critiquers say is very different from saying 'thank you' or recriprocating with comments on other people's work. It doesn't have to mean you're being ignored, it might mean the writer has a particular reason for doing things that way or saying things that way or -- even -- that they disagree with your well-thought-out arguments.

I learned an important lesson when I first posted in critiques and took on all the comments and explained all the confusions and rewrote the segment only to be told by TJ (to whom I will be eternally grateful) that the first version had been better. Admittedly, that was a poor revision, but in my opinion (and I'm not thinking of anyone in particular, I swear), making every change suggested can lead to losing sight of wat you were originally trying to do and produce a weaker piece of writing.

(I also think it's worth noting Sarah La Polla said this on Twitter: 'Oh writers. Coming back to me within a week & saying "I made the changes you wanted" is NOT what I want when I give revision notes.' which was an interesting remark. And yes, I just discovered Twitter...)

Ahem. Rant ends.

 

[hopewrites]

re: "thanks in advance"
for me is a way of handing out IOU's to all the people kind enough to read what I've asked for an opinion on. as in "here is me saying in advance of your doing a nice thing for me, that I will thank you for it. your work and effort will not go unacknowledged, it took me ages to work this up, and then work up the courage to post it, so I appreciate you respecting my work by putting in work of your own that will make my work better and the only thing you get out if it are warm fuzzies and a 'thank you'"
but that's way too many words so I just say "thanks in advance" and then do my best to give thoughtful 'thank yous' just as i promised.