Being Polite

[Warren_Paul]

I use twitter a wee bit. What's your twitter name? I'll follow you!


I wasn't suggesting that we implement every suggestion given in our writing, bad or not. I was more talking about things that aren't suggestions, but more good writing practice and the rules of proper grammar. Choosing whether to implement a change to a plot element is entirely up to the writer, but fixes that ensure proper grammar should be implemented without question. It's those situations that put me off critiquing their revisions.

 

[hopewrites]

I use twitter a wee bit. What's your twitter name? I'll follow you!

mee tooo

 

[Hex]

I'm following you, Warren. Hope, I don't think I saw you -- it's Anna Dickinson (anna_in_ink).

I agree about te grammar stuff but it can also take time to absorb it, and some of it is (arguably) about style.

Perhaps weirdly, I'm least likely to specifically thank someone whose comments have really inspired me because I'm likely to be off making notes based on what they said.

Anyhow, enough of this discussion (for me). For the record, I don't care if people thank me in Critiques as long as they do some critiquing for other people.

 

[Warren_Paul]

I'm following you, Warren. Hope, I don't think I saw you -- it's Anna Dickinson (anna_in_ink).

Oh hai! I see you.

 

[ctg]

*pushes a big chunk of wensleydale outside christmouse hole and then sits down to talk *

Darling mouskey, I understand you're feeling grumpy for people not being absolutely grateful for you, but you should also understand that these people are putting out their soul, when they post a piece in the critiques.

It is not easy. Not easy at all and some of these people are really terrified to put up anything, and when they see the responses, it scares them. It's as if they are seeing that grumpy cat coming around to put a pawn in hole and tear up all your little furniture. He didn't expect a thank you note from you, did he?

So sweetie, I think you should calm down and accept that it's not easy for people to do that, and you should see them being grateful for you anyway. Especially if it helped them in any way or shape. They might not voice it, but they might show it otherwise. And that is how I think the world works.

And if I haven't ever thank you... or anyone else who might be listening. I'm always grateful for you even I don't say it straight away. And if I don't, I'll try to return a favour as soon as possible. You might even see me doing extra efforts for you even if I don't want to comment on the piece. But all you should know that I love you guys, and I understand why people don't necessarily give high praises for tearing their work in pieces.

So deepest apologies to posters and thousand thanks for all the critters.

 

[StormFeather]

I haven't been near the Critiques section for a long time - I've barely been on the site as a whole for the last few months. However, I don't think that it's too much to expect perhaps a general response of thanks to all the people who have taken the time to read, think about and respond to what you've posted. As has been said elsewhere before, it takes time, and some responses are very considered, and go into great detail. The people doing this for you are doing it for free, and to help you. You may not agree with the suggestions, as is your right as the author of the piece, but certainly when I first came here I knew nothing about real writing and learnt a lot, even from those who I didn't initially agree with.

(so, erring on the side of caution myself - a big THANK YOU to all who tried to help me!! From years back, but just in case)

So, a post which just thanks everyone who has spent some of their time to try and help you improve, even if you don't comment on every response, doesn't take long and shows real appreciation.

Rant over!

Would follow people on Twitter, but haven't been there for such a long time I can't even remember what my own name is!!

 

[Jo Zebedee]

But we're all readers. We have an idea what works and what doesn't, and even if that's subjective it's worth presenting our thoughts to a writer.

Anyway, critiquing is good for our own writing. It encourages us to think about the process more and that can only be good for us.

This is it in a nutshell. Yesterday someone in the writing group was kind enough to tell me that a scene struggled to keep their interest. They said lots of other useful things but that comment - which has sparked an overhaul - is something anyone can say without even telling me why and is gold. I am trying to get published, the thing I need to know is would you read on. Brutally and honestly so i can change it so that it does, because the agent won't read on either. I will even say cheers!

 

[Bowler1]

Anyway, critiquing is good for our own writing. It encourages us to think about the process more and that can only be good for us.

I agree with this which is why I keep returning to that section on Chrons. I like to think I'm helpful, but there will be times when I may not be. Anyway, a thank you is nice, but I don't really expect one everytime. If the member is interacting on the site and is not a troll, then they'll get more reviews. It takes time to develop a writing style that works for someone, so I don't expect to see big leaps in an individuals writing.

Mostly, I do it for me. I really think critiquing other peoples work sharpens your editing eye for your own work. It's so easy to become absorbed in our own stuff and lose this ability.

I try and thank everyone, if I missed you, I'm really sorry...

Right, I'm off to check on WP.

 

[The Judge]

And hey, ease off the young'un bashing, TJ

Go on. We all know you're only pretending to be a young person -- this fantasy story of yours is just a cover, and in reality you're actually writing your memoirs about the Boer War...

ps: I didn't repond at once to the 2000th post critiques because I was trying to keep to the nice round number of 2000... perhaps that was a bit silly.

A woman after my own heart!

pps: argh! are we meant to produce a revised version of the text?

No! This isn't some kind of test, to check whether you've understood everything and can regurgitate it in limpid prose!

You're exactly right in your later post -- some suggestions, however good, simply can't work within the constraints of the whole novel. For my last piece I had a number of very helpful ideas which were intelligent and well-considered, but they arose from a reading of 1500 words out of a total, then, of 150,000, so they couldn't possibly take account of what had happened, what I needed to happen, the characters' personalities, and how they all interacted. Nonetheless I was very grateful for them all and they helped me to make the scene stronger.

 

[Abernovo]

I notice that in the piece that I put up for my thousandth, I did fail to acknowledge the final crit (I'd thanked others en masse, in stages). My defence is a poor connection that week - by the time I was properly back online, it was on another page and forgotten about. So a belated thank you for your interest to Cosmic Geoff, and many thanks to all others who spent time critiquing. It was a useful exercise.

I don't think you have to thank every one individually (sometimes, it's not possible, with the speed they come in, or if you're away from the computer), but a general attitude of politeness - across the Chrons - is something that should be expected. That way, if you forget to thank someone, they'll know it's just a slip.

 

[Brian G Turner]

Taking a critique can be quite hard - I'm sure most of us post something up we feel is quite wonderful, only to see a stream of criticisms.

I accept it can be hard to say "thank you" for that sort of response.

Besides, it may be impossible to respond to every comment, without falling into the mindset of trying to justify your errors.

Personally I'm grateful - I'll only get better knowing where I went wrong - I don't imagine everyone will be.

 

[Warren_Paul]

Taking a critique can be quite hard - I'm sure most of us post something up we feel is quite wonderful, only to see a stream of criticisms.

I accept it can be hard to say "thank you" for that sort of response.

Besides, it may be impossible to respond to every comment, without falling into the mindset of trying to justify your errors.

Personally I'm grateful - I'll only get better knowing where I went wrong - I don't imagine everyone will be.

Certainly, I remember a few overly defensive responses to critiques in the past from people I'd gone to the effort to help. Those kind where you sit back in your seat and wonder, "What just happened?" They always make me think I said something I shouldn't have. In the end though, they just need to smile, wave and walk way.

 

[Kylara]

Well first off, thank you to all those people I may have inadvertently forgotten to thank (I have no idea...I am normally quite good I think, but a few may have slipped my net)

In regards to posting a fixed up copy...I once posted something I had edited (which I hate doing) and was getting a lot of wonderful feedback...I then looked back at the copy previous to chopping and tweaked a few bits here and there and then posted that up...apparently it was much better, which made me dislike editing things even more - I seem to always make things worse as I edit, which leaves me with the dilemma of whether or not to edit, or just to leave and tweak the occasional word...without those crits (which I remember being very grateful for) I wouldn't have realised the damage a harsh edit can do...

I haven't been critting much at the moment - lack of time really, but it is something I love, and whilst I don't mind if my thoughts are incorporated or not, an acknowledgement that they have at least been read is always nice...especially as my crits tend to be a little left field (apologies to any who thought I was living on Zog and wasn't really providing much helpful crit advice!)

Recently I put up a fairly random piece just to get peoples thoughts on the pov changes, and although only a very few commented, what they did comment was very interesting and helpful...but I have a feeling that as I had terrible 'flu at the time I forgot to thank them! so I thank you now, here, as I don't think I should resurect the thread...hmmm I may resurrect it anyway as I am incorporating their input into a new short...*wanders off to get sidetracked*

 

[nubins]

I always make a point of tahnking or at least acknowledging everyone who comments in a crit for me. I've put two up and the crits were extremely helpful and clearly some had spent along time doing them, I agree with Mouse that it is just common courtesey to thank someone for their time, even if you disagree with some of the comments made.

Ive responded to a number of requests for crits and in two cases not received any comment back at all. All it did was make me take note and think that I wont help that person again in the future.

 

[Mouse]

Glad that most people seem to agree! And really, I'm not talking about people who actually give back to the site. I'm talking about those people - who you can't accuse of being newbies - who come here, ask for help, don't thank anybody, then bugger off. That bothers me. I can think of at least three repeat offenders too.

And I'm not suggesting everybody should thank every single response individually. Just a 'thanks all' will do!

I have to admit that when someone asks for advice and only acknowledges the suggestions they like, I feel like I don't ever want to comment in one of their threads again.

They don't have to say thank you to every individual poster, but some kind of reply like "interesting ideas everyone" or something like that is far better than ignoring most of the people who have taken the time to reply and tried to help.

Exactly this.

 

[Bonnie Milani]

Hi, All!
This is my first ever post to this site so I figured I might as well weigh in on a universal issue. I agree whole-heartedly: annoys the devil out of me when I've made time to give a thoughtful critique & don't get even a 'yeah, right!' in response.

Another forum I track has found a useful solution, though: you can't post if you have critiquest to which you have not responded. No answer, no post. No word minimum word count on the answer, you just have to acknowledge the critique. Mind, the answers have occasionally set off some fairly heated discussions on the thread!

I do so look forward to getting to know you all here. I'm wa-a-a-a-y over here in Los Angeles so I feel a bit like a foreigner!

Best
Bonnie Milani

 

[chrispenycate]

I'm wa-a-a-a-y over here in Los Angeles so I feel a bit like a foreigner!

Are you forced to be in LA, or is it your personal choice? The latter would cvertainly make you foreign to me (there again, you actually are foreign to me but the Pacific states have quite a few Chronics, so somebody's in your time zone). Oh, welcome aboard, Kowing us all might turn out to be a protracted exercise.

I was just thinking of somebody getting back a crit from me of a piece he (that's the general 'he', including 'she's and 'it's) has been labouring over, and finds it apparently suffering from a serious dose of chicken pox…

I could see that thanks are not the most sincere comment on the situation; I was, however, slightly upset about insults. But this was a long time ago, and I think that, although I've not made much progress in diplomacy I feel people are more expecting it now.

 

[anthorn]

Are you forced to be in LA, or is it your personal choice? The latter would cvertainly make you foreign to me (there again, you actually are foreign to me but the Pacific states have quite a few Chronics, so somebody's in your time zone). Oh, welcome aboard, Kowing us all might turn out to be a protracted exercise.

I was just thinking of somebody getting back a crit from me of a piece he (that's the general 'he', including 'she's and 'it's) has been labouring over, and finds it apparently suffering from a serious dose of chicken pox…

I could see that thanks are not the most sincere comment on the situation; I was, however, slightly upset about insults. But this was a long time ago, and I think that, although I've not made much progress in diplomacy I feel people are more expecting it now.

I enjoy your crits. I feel my punctuation has come on leaps and bounds since I've listened to your observations. I take all crits on board and although I may not post the revised edition, it's not because I've ignored them but rather because they put the word count over the acceptable amount.

 

[Bonnie Milani]

Are you forced to be in LA, or is it your personal choice? .

Hi, There! Glad to hear from you!

I'm actually something of an accidental Angeleno, but I've been here so long now the accident's forgot. I'm the real thing, now: can't go ANYWHERE in the winter without risking pneumonia. Where else (except San Diego or Australia) could I clip fresh roses and pick oranges off my back yard trees for the Christmas table?

Any suggestions as to the best threads to follow on this site? I think I have to post 30 times (critiques?) before I can post a story. Is that correct?

Appreciate any guidance. BTW - how's by yourself? Are you Swiss born or a transplant?

 

[Stephen4444]

"JEEEZ…." I don't remember weather I thanked everyone or not. I do appreciate EVERYONE on this site. This truly is the greatest group of writers on the internet. I would like to give a blanket thank-you… though it probably does not mean as much: to those who took their time, to improve my writing. I do promise to do better in the future.
I do try to give back. My life is busy, as… I am sure yours is. When time permits, I try to give back, by critiquing in the manner that best I know. I often give long explanations of why I prefer certain things, (stylistically,) and a few people have said that they learned something… from what little I know; which makes me feel good. Personally, I appreciate the thanks… as I appreciate the critiques I receive; but I do not garner my value or self-worth from the accolades. I get the satisfaction from trying to help someone, and trying to reciprocate. I admit I am not as good at critique as most of you, but I improve with each effort.
Thank you again.
And I do appreciate all of the help I have received.
Stephen4444