I just want to see my suspension of disbelief allowed time to settle within the first few pages.
Superb link.
Reasons why you SHOULD read WoT (no spoilers).
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I just want to see my suspension of disbelief allowed time to settle within the first few pages.
Superb link.
Okay, I'm on page 12 and have made quite a lot of notes already. I admit defeat - Jordan is masterful. He can say so much with so little, and I don't mean just by way of his wordsmithing - everything he writes says so much about the culture and social structures of this place. It's brimming with realism, so much so that it's easy not to notice what he's actually doing - and with every passing sentence he draws the reader a little further into his world.
I feel like I'm going back to school on "how to write" and "what is fantasy". I have some serious catching up to do!
I feel like I'm going back to school on "how to write" and "what is fantasy". I have some serious catching up to do!
YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Brian, you've made me jump up and down and hug Seph!
I can't believe you said such positive things! YES! That is exactly what I'm learning from the series. I can't believe how real everything feels, how POV characters (in later books especially) look at the world so differently to each other so you know EXACTLY whose POV you're in without even being told a name. He makes it all feel effortless, as you said, and he is, without a doubt, the author I've learned the most from in terms of how to write a fantasy world and make it come to life with little touches. I don't even care that on a very rare occasion he head hops, because it seems to fit Jordan's style.
Reading Jordan has made me see that a lot of authors are so very sparse these days, as if the advice of "show only what's relevant and don't tell/info-dump" has deadened prose because, really, "how much of this background is just extraneous fluff that doesn't advance the plot?" Yet it isn't. It's creating something real. Show don't tell applies in writing, yes, but it doesn't mean you can't show a colourful world with extra detail. I think the key I'm learning is how much to apply to my writing...
But Jordan has taught me a lot, and I'm still learning from him in book six. It's epic that feels... epic. I can see why so many readers adore the books - you don't get such realistically detailed places in most mid-list books...
Edit: Oh! And you haven't even SEEN his magic system yet! You won't until book two, if you get that far, but books two to six really show how great it is... It starts off interesting and just gets better!
Edit edit: And I made notes, too! I still do, on occasion. I went through bits I wanted to learn from and wrote them all down. Good idea, because there is certainly too much to take in at once. Although, when you're note-taking, you're distracted from the story, which is a downside (I always note-take after reading, now).
Brian, you've made me jump up and down and hug Seph!
I can't believe you said such positive things! YES! That is exactly what I'm learning from the series. I can't believe how real everything feels, how POV characters (in later books especially) look at the world so differently to each other so you know EXACTLY whose POV you're in without even being told a name. He makes it all feel effortless, as you said, and he is, without a doubt, the author I've learned the most from in terms of how to write a fantasy world and make it come to life with little touches. I don't even care that on a very rare occasion he head hops, because it seems to fit Jordan's style.
Reading Jordan has made me see that a lot of authors are so very sparse these days, as if the advice of "show only what's relevant and don't tell/info-dump" has deadened prose because, really, "how much of this background is just extraneous fluff that doesn't advance the plot?" Yet it isn't. It's creating something real. Show don't tell applies in writing, yes, but it doesn't mean you can't show a colourful world with extra detail. I think the key I'm learning is how much to apply to my writing...
But Jordan has taught me a lot, and I'm still learning from him in book six. It's epic that feels... epic. I can see why so many readers adore the books - you don't get such realistically detailed places in most mid-list books...
Edit: Oh! And you haven't even SEEN his magic system yet! You won't until book two, if you get that far, but books two to six really show how great it is... It starts off interesting and just gets better!
Edit edit: And I made notes, too! I still do, on occasion. I went through bits I wanted to learn from and wrote them all down. Good idea, because there is certainly too much to take in at once. Although, when you're note-taking, you're distracted from the story, which is a downside (I always note-take after reading, now).
And, if I can just write another quick post, that's why I created this thread. I was always negatively biased against Jordan after seeing the many negative thread titles in this section, and then when I got to book two I was absolutely shocked. I couldn't believe that people like me had written off this series - the amazing series that really brings to life Jordan's world - without even giving it a go. That's why I decided to try to combat the negative so others would give him a fair chance.
It's not everyone's cup of tea, sure, but I knew there'd be others who shared my opinion in what you can learn/enjoy from it.
It's not everyone's cup of tea, sure, but I knew there'd be others who shared my opinion in what you can learn/enjoy from it.
ratsy
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Leisha, it is amusing to see someone SO excited by a series. It is actually quite refreshing.
I have seen a few comments on here saying the characters were bland or poorly done. As good of an Author as Jordan is, at description, vision, and setting, his characters are at the top of the list to me. I love that as the story goes on (I think it covers 2-3 years by the time it's all said and done) the characters grow and change along with the story.
It really adds a sense of reality to the series. We all know that experience changes people and I am blown away at the changes in some of the major characters. Rand of course has the most change, and at times you can't even recognize him as the sheepherder he was.
Just superbly done. I am still reading Towers of Midnight and am loving it. (over 1200 pages in paperback) I have a holiday coming up and hope to finish this book and continue to the final installment which is sitting at home.
I am excited to be done the series as I feel I have so many other things out there to read and this series has put a year long hold on all of the rest. But so worth it. If I wanted to claim to be an epic fantasy fan, this is a must read.
And Leisha, I can't wait to see what you think of the upcoming books!
I have seen a few comments on here saying the characters were bland or poorly done. As good of an Author as Jordan is, at description, vision, and setting, his characters are at the top of the list to me. I love that as the story goes on (I think it covers 2-3 years by the time it's all said and done) the characters grow and change along with the story.
It really adds a sense of reality to the series. We all know that experience changes people and I am blown away at the changes in some of the major characters. Rand of course has the most change, and at times you can't even recognize him as the sheepherder he was.
Just superbly done. I am still reading Towers of Midnight and am loving it. (over 1200 pages in paperback) I have a holiday coming up and hope to finish this book and continue to the final installment which is sitting at home.
I am excited to be done the series as I feel I have so many other things out there to read and this series has put a year long hold on all of the rest. But so worth it. If I wanted to claim to be an epic fantasy fan, this is a must read.
And Leisha, I can't wait to see what you think of the upcoming books!
Well, I *finally* finished Eye of the World.
My earlier positive comments about his wordsmithing still stand - the way he describes the village and people early on I think is superb, and his general tight use of prose throughout the book deserves close attention as a writer.
However, I felt nothing really happened in the book after the village - there is lots of weary travelling, but no actual feeling of tension or even danger: no one wants them killed, merely captured - even the Trollocs only use catchpoles and never actually harm anyone, and similar with the Fades (and why didn't the one at the start simply grab the boys when it found them?).
The idea of factions was very interesting, but felt overwhelmed by the Christian "good vs evil" overtones.
The characters never really developed, except Perrin, but even then we see little after that change begins - Rand is always the grumbling tired hillbilly except at the end when he inexplicably becomes powerful.
Also, what especially grated, is how derivative the story was of Lord of the Rings, especially the travel from Bree, and far too many characters were cut outs from that story.
In other words, Robert Jordan shows an exceptional attention to detail for word use and sentence construction, but seems to lose focus on macroscopic issues of character and plot development. Strangely, these are the same criticisms I would make of George R R Martin's writing, and the reverse of what I'd say about Joe Abercrombie and Scott Lynch.
2c.
My earlier positive comments about his wordsmithing still stand - the way he describes the village and people early on I think is superb, and his general tight use of prose throughout the book deserves close attention as a writer.
However, I felt nothing really happened in the book after the village - there is lots of weary travelling, but no actual feeling of tension or even danger: no one wants them killed, merely captured - even the Trollocs only use catchpoles and never actually harm anyone, and similar with the Fades (and why didn't the one at the start simply grab the boys when it found them?).
The idea of factions was very interesting, but felt overwhelmed by the Christian "good vs evil" overtones.
The characters never really developed, except Perrin, but even then we see little after that change begins - Rand is always the grumbling tired hillbilly except at the end when he inexplicably becomes powerful.
Also, what especially grated, is how derivative the story was of Lord of the Rings, especially the travel from Bree, and far too many characters were cut outs from that story.
In other words, Robert Jordan shows an exceptional attention to detail for word use and sentence construction, but seems to lose focus on macroscopic issues of character and plot development. Strangely, these are the same criticisms I would make of George R R Martin's writing, and the reverse of what I'd say about Joe Abercrombie and Scott Lynch.
2c.
Well, it's nice that you finished it.
Remember, I did say in my original post that I thought the opening to book one was very LotR-ish, rightly or wrongly. I believe Jordan was trying to appeal to fans of the genre by it, to give the book that cosy Tolkien feel. However, in book 1 you don't really get too many hints of how the story opens out and becomes its own thing in books 2+.
The characters are vastly different people by book 6 (the book I'm on, and still loving). In fact, they began changing in book two, though I had no idea just how much some would change. And the story gets epic in ways you couldn't imagine. Also, Jordan tries some new things. One book doesn't hardly have the main character in it at all!
I like to think that, barring the Conan novels Jordan did, this first WoT book is him getting his feet and grounding himself in his writing and, obviously, his world, where he can then explore it and really bring in a lot of races, places, fractions, history, plots, etc.
It's been such an eye-opener in terms of writing epic fantasy. There are loads of OMG-moments in the books, which, for me, no other writer has achieved.
As for him becoming inexplicably powerful [spoiler!], he can channel and he found an untainted pool of pure saidar in the blight, that male Aes Sedai sacrificed themselves to leave. This Rand used to gain additional power. He also might have connections to the Dragon Reborn...[spoiler!]
So, the big question: do you think you'll read book 2? *bites nails*
Ratsy, agree with you 100%! And thanks. I can't stop getting so excited by what's going on in these later books. And the main character...
Well, I better go out. See you all later!
Remember, I did say in my original post that I thought the opening to book one was very LotR-ish, rightly or wrongly. I believe Jordan was trying to appeal to fans of the genre by it, to give the book that cosy Tolkien feel. However, in book 1 you don't really get too many hints of how the story opens out and becomes its own thing in books 2+.
The characters are vastly different people by book 6 (the book I'm on, and still loving). In fact, they began changing in book two, though I had no idea just how much some would change. And the story gets epic in ways you couldn't imagine. Also, Jordan tries some new things. One book doesn't hardly have the main character in it at all!
I like to think that, barring the Conan novels Jordan did, this first WoT book is him getting his feet and grounding himself in his writing and, obviously, his world, where he can then explore it and really bring in a lot of races, places, fractions, history, plots, etc.
It's been such an eye-opener in terms of writing epic fantasy. There are loads of OMG-moments in the books, which, for me, no other writer has achieved.
As for him becoming inexplicably powerful [spoiler!], he can channel and he found an untainted pool of pure saidar in the blight, that male Aes Sedai sacrificed themselves to leave. This Rand used to gain additional power. He also might have connections to the Dragon Reborn...[spoiler!]
So, the big question: do you think you'll read book 2? *bites nails*
Ratsy, agree with you 100%! And thanks. I can't stop getting so excited by what's going on in these later books. And the main character...
Well, I better go out. See you all later!
biodroid
A.D.D.
It's the main reason for me not reading this series is because of the mentioned slow books. I really would like to try but can't bare to read 5000 pages, invest so much time and just be dissappointed.
Christopher Lee
Formerly BluePhoenix711
I've still not gotten past book two. I'm a slow reader and its just so long. Maybe ill finish the series over the next ten years.
biodroid
A.D.D.
Same here, besides having read any RJ books, I am stuck in other trilogies I need to finish
ratsy
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Well I finally finished the second last book, Towers of Midnight. I have started the Memory of Light.
It's funny hearing comments on the first book. Brian, there is no comparing the early stuff with the later ones. I almost feel like I am reading a different story at this point. If there is something to notice in these books, the characters grow...a lot. Also funny Perrin changed the most in book one because he almost seems to remain static through most of the second half.
Anyways...I cant wait to see how it all ends. And again I must complement Sanderson on doing the last books. I can see a huge style change but he really bringa the pacing together
You can tell that Sanderson is more story/character and Jordan is setting/description but the combo makes for something special.
It's funny hearing comments on the first book. Brian, there is no comparing the early stuff with the later ones. I almost feel like I am reading a different story at this point. If there is something to notice in these books, the characters grow...a lot. Also funny Perrin changed the most in book one because he almost seems to remain static through most of the second half.
Anyways...I cant wait to see how it all ends. And again I must complement Sanderson on doing the last books. I can see a huge style change but he really bringa the pacing together
You can tell that Sanderson is more story/character and Jordan is setting/description but the combo makes for something special.
Well, I'm slowly learning that WoT is not everyone's cup of tea, so there's little I can say to get you to try it. Saying that, I agree 100% with Ratsy's comment - the series is so radically different after book one. You almost wouldn't believe it was the same story.
And, one thing I found out, Jordan has said in interviews that he'd deliberately chosen a LotR-style opening for book 1, because he wanted to bring back that cosy Tolkien feel. So he did it with every intention, though writers wouldn't get away with that today. Anyway, I STILL say that book 1 is the worst book of all the 6 I've read. No doubt about it.
And, one thing I found out, Jordan has said in interviews that he'd deliberately chosen a LotR-style opening for book 1, because he wanted to bring back that cosy Tolkien feel. So he did it with every intention, though writers wouldn't get away with that today. Anyway, I STILL say that book 1 is the worst book of all the 6 I've read. No doubt about it.
Well, not at the moment.
I have a HUGE TBR list which serves as research for my own writing. I'd already bought Eye of the World a long time ago, but was hesitant about starting a huge series in case it got under my skin. I had to push it up top after the recommendation you gave. Next on my list are a Daniel Abraham, Patrick Rothfuss, and Terry Goodkind, to help increase my understanding of epic fantasy. I also have an every increasing pile of historical fiction to read through, and an absolute ton of historical research books (these take a while because I'm taking copious notes).
In the meantime, I've just started Anne Lyle's "Merchant of Dreams" on the grounds that I enjoyed the first book, and as Renaissance fantasy it's still useful research material (because I know Anne really researches everything, so I can steal anything she's found that I haven't - such as the word "cresset" in the first few pages, when most writers would use "torch" or "brazier"!).
However, I'm really enjoying her writing style - it flows very naturally, there's good use of words, and the historical details slip in and never dominate. And the writing is incredibly lean - no fat, no padding, not an extraneous sentence so far. Would definitely recommend you take a look at Alchemist of Souls for comparison of style, if you haven't already.
Jonathan C
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They do try and kill them at some points- like Narg, the only named Trolloc in the whole world. Its more of a "capture, but kill if necessary" order, not to mention some Darkfriends seemed not entirely sure if they were going to do one thing or the other (the bad guys in this series aren't the most disciplined of villains).
Plus its not like being captured by the forces of evil is a pleasant fate. They would have been dragged before Ba'alzamon and told to join him or die- and they would probably die.
Sorry; its just sounds like a strange criticism to make. I never thought they were "not in danger", and I don't think being kidnapped by bloodthirsty monsters and dragged before Satan himself or one of his underlings counts as safe.
Oh. That's the problem I didn't foresee with this thread. I started it by saying even *I* didn't find book one amazing, but book two was where it really becomes a serious competitor for best epic fantasy series... yet no one gets past book one. Which wasn't the point!!! Oh...
For all series. I have a sense that you mean to continue the series one day, but you're not fussed about when, and so it might slip down and down your tbr pile? (I'm just trying to gauge your reaction.) Where I am - book six - I can honestly see why WoT is the biggest-selling epic series of all time. It's so well thought out, complex, imaginative, loveable, and all-encompassing. I don't know how anyone can write better! (Which makes me scared for my own writing, and I really mean that.) It really gets going and leaves you breathless after book two. And book three... wow... just wow. You get ideas about things as you read, then chapters/books later, Jordan turns it all on its head and shocks you with things you think can't have happened!
I don't know how I can get people to give it the chance it deserves. And I understand about people saying book one should hook or not at all. But I still think, from the pleasure, awe, shocks, surprises and love I've felt for this series after book one, it's worth people's time. I feel like size-7 shouting about all the awesome things that keep happening throughout the books!
Speaking of...
OH MY GOODNESS!!!!!! Oh!!!
WHAT JUST HAPPENED?!
I'm two chapters away from the end of book six, and I need to scream!!! What's happened to him?!?! WHOA! And I *knew* it! I *knew* that thing was real!!!
Them working together will be AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!
YEEEEEEEES!
*cough*
So, anyway, I've read the first two chapters from Anne Lyle - I read them online the week it was released - and I did love her style. It's hard not to. It was fast-paced and, yes, lean. I even flicked through the book in Waterstones the other week, but I wasn't there to buy stuff; I was there to write in the coffee shop. Anyway, I have so much to read first. My to-read pile is taller than the block of flats I'm in, and now I don't have the money to buy books anymore, let alone drinks in Waterstones.
Plus, nothing will likely come close to WoT for me for a long time, so I suppose it wouldn't be fair to read other authors in-between. I need to give them their own chance once I've cooled down from WoT. I'm just so taken with how vast and epic and complex WoT is, and how the characters are nothing like they were in book one. I think of book one with fondness, now, seeing how plain, naive, and innocent everyone was. Wow...
Jonathan, hello! *waves* Welcome to the Chronicles! It's nice to have another in my thread. Do you love WoT, then? Have you finished them all?
I'd deffo say that in later books there's plenty tension and conflict - between rulers, genders, magic-wielders, tribes, races, Forsaken, Darkfriends, Ba'alzamon's creatures, other humans, and... um... inner conflicts. Not to mention the threat of... the Dark One. (I keep trying to write "The Great Lord" - what does that say about me?!)
But if you don't read a good way into the series, you'll never know what the epic was really like.
For all series. I have a sense that you mean to continue the series one day, but you're not fussed about when, and so it might slip down and down your tbr pile? (I'm just trying to gauge your reaction.) Where I am - book six - I can honestly see why WoT is the biggest-selling epic series of all time. It's so well thought out, complex, imaginative, loveable, and all-encompassing. I don't know how anyone can write better! (Which makes me scared for my own writing, and I really mean that.) It really gets going and leaves you breathless after book two. And book three... wow... just wow. You get ideas about things as you read, then chapters/books later, Jordan turns it all on its head and shocks you with things you think can't have happened!I don't know how I can get people to give it the chance it deserves. And I understand about people saying book one should hook or not at all. But I still think, from the pleasure, awe, shocks, surprises and love I've felt for this series after book one, it's worth people's time. I feel like size-7 shouting about all the awesome things that keep happening throughout the books!
Speaking of...
OH MY GOODNESS!!!!!! Oh!!!
WHAT JUST HAPPENED?!
I'm two chapters away from the end of book six, and I need to scream!!! What's happened to him?!?! WHOA! And I *knew* it! I *knew* that thing was real!!!
Them working together will be AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!
YEEEEEEEES!
*cough*
So, anyway, I've read the first two chapters from Anne Lyle - I read them online the week it was released - and I did love her style. It's hard not to. It was fast-paced and, yes, lean. I even flicked through the book in Waterstones the other week, but I wasn't there to buy stuff; I was there to write in the coffee shop. Anyway, I have so much to read first. My to-read pile is taller than the block of flats I'm in, and now I don't have the money to buy books anymore, let alone drinks in Waterstones.
Plus, nothing will likely come close to WoT for me for a long time, so I suppose it wouldn't be fair to read other authors in-between. I need to give them their own chance once I've cooled down from WoT. I'm just so taken with how vast and epic and complex WoT is, and how the characters are nothing like they were in book one. I think of book one with fondness, now, seeing how plain, naive, and innocent everyone was. Wow...
Jonathan, hello! *waves* Welcome to the Chronicles! It's nice to have another in my thread. Do you love WoT, then? Have you finished them all?
I'd deffo say that in later books there's plenty tension and conflict - between rulers, genders, magic-wielders, tribes, races, Forsaken, Darkfriends, Ba'alzamon's creatures, other humans, and... um... inner conflicts. Not to mention the threat of... the Dark One. (I keep trying to write "The Great Lord" - what does that say about me?!
)Oops. I just realised that could sound bad, and in no way did I mean that! I'm only meaning cos you write epic, and I can't recommend the series enough for learning from, so I wanted to gauge your thoughts. Feel free to ignore if you don't want to answer!But if you don't read a good way into the series, you'll never know what the epic was really like.
And I should also make clear that I am borrowing the books from Seph, not buying them. I really don't have spare cash. (In case it sounded like I don't have money for other authors yet do for Jordan.)
Oops. I just realised that could sound bad, and in no way did I mean that! I'm only meaning cos you write epic, and I can't recommend the series enough for learning from, so I wanted to gauge your thoughts. Feel free to ignore if you don't want to answer!
No worries, wasn't at all taken badly - I feel a need to sample many authors to see how they fit into the fantasy genre overall and compare against one another. I don't feel the luxury of being able to digress too much from this.
Jonathan C
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I've been stuck on book 4 for a few weeks (not a quality thing; I'm just not in the mood right now for it). I haven't read the rest, but I tend to read up on a work before I get round to watching or reading it- in other words, I've spoilt it for myself and know how it all ends. The downside of being too interested in worldbuilding.
Do I love them? "shrugs" They're okay. I can already see the issues that the series has a reputation for- throwaway villains, foolish decisions by the heroes, women, women, women, etc. But the series is immersive and impressive, and for now I intend to read it all the way through.
I will say that first time I read EotW, I got bored halfway through and put it down. Came back to it a couple of years later, and I enjoyed it a whole lot more. The long journey to Tar Valon was a bit dragged out, but I can to appreciate the flip-side of that, namely that you truly got a feel of the epic scope of this world and quest in a way few other books have managed. If you let yourself get pulled in. Also, I had read some Ice and Fire and the Farseer trilogy in-between my two sittings and it was fun to notice the influence of WoT on works like those (eg. "Game of Houses").
I'd deffo say that in later books there's plenty tension and conflict - between rulers, genders, magic-wielders, tribes, races, Forsaken, Darkfriends, Ba'alzamon's creatures, other humans, and... um... inner conflicts. Not to mention the threat of... the Dark One. (I keep trying to write "The Great Lord" - what does that say about me?!
Oh. I'm sure it doesn't say anything. Freudian slips are a myth.
(runs to find some Whitecloaks).
AAAAAAAAAARGH!!!!!
I've been jumping up and down the flat and screeching!!!! OH MY GOODNESS!!!!!!!!! OH!!!!!
The ending was just amazing!!! Oh my word!!!! I can't believe it! WOWOWOWOWOW! I cn't calm down... I've never had such a reaction to a book. Never! But I can't believe how the end line of Ch 55 made me squeal and exclaim! I'm still shaking. Such a visceral reaction to a book.....
Blimey. I'm shaking so much I can hadrly type...
I won't give much away, but the chapter ends in "...and the world was changed forever".
Calm down, Leish.
Phew.
Oh, still shaking...
And then Seph told me what I was doing - and what I'd lost as a result. I was finding books not so engaging, and things made me frustrated. I was reading them, thinking about technical things as I went, cringing at errors that had slipped through the publishing net - and I wondered why I wasn't getting enjoyment from reading. Yet I kept trying other books...
Then Seph told me to learn to switch off my writer's brain and just read the words. And if I must ponder on things, to do so afterward, after I've put the book down. It was a scene in book two, a description of a beautiful white place, that I rediscovered my love of reading. I feel in love with the words and phrasing, with the images I had in my head and the character's thoughts about the place. It took a long time to learn how to keep my writer's brain switch off, cos it kept sneaking back as I read... but now I'm so grateful I can read as a reader again.
You don't realise how much you miss, being a writer-reader. And, when you think about it, you've lost something vital as a writer: the ability to read with wonder and to feel. Feeling books is the only way to be able to properly understand what it is the author's achieved - how he twists the reader's emotions through words alone - and stand some chance at emulating it. I know I will try to write things that have such moments of high emotion as WoT does.
Gah! Still shaking. I can't wait to pick up book seven!
And, to address some other concerns people had, I will say these points:
1) No, I don't hate the women. Actually, there's one or two that bug me, but you know what? That's fantastic. It means I feel something, and not every emotion is positive. It just shows me how I like some women, but others - certain posh ones, ahem - do things to men I like that I can't forgive. As for braid-pulling, only one character does it a lot, and it's even a running joke in the series, about how she knows she does it and everyone else does, too, so she's embarrassed. I love her, truthfully. As for certain... actions/expressions some women do a lot, I think that's Jordan's bugbear. I have a nasty habit of my characters "gazing" or "smiling" too much when I write them. {0.0}
2) Pacing. I don't have a problem with it. In fact, WoT has taught me a lot. For example, when something's really not important, Jordan skips it. Look how well it's handled in these two instances near the end of book six, when readers are on the edge of their seats:
"The sun climbed higher and the sun grew lower, and by the time they made camp at twilight, he estimated they might have come as much as thirty-five miles. A good day's travel; excellent for so large a party."
"One thing did become clear. Perrin was covering as much ground each day as he had the first, and each day he sliced as much as ten miles from the Aes Sedai lead."
Now, isn't that a great way to avoid extraneous detail? Some writers would describe the journey.
Jonathan, oh, I envy you!!! You have some WOWOW moment to come in that book! And I mean wow! A certain sequence of... scenes... will have you shaking. And there's another WHAT?! moment after that for someone else, though I won't give anything away, although fingers crossed you haven't spoiled too much for yourself (and don't do that again, mister! *waggles finger*).
It's nice to have you on-board! I'd be interested to hear your views of the books if you do get around to reading the rest.
be aware that, in my opinion at least, the villains become not so throwaway and the women... well... there's a heck of a lot more women in the story, and I LOVE some of them dearly, so make of that what you will. Some women you won't have met properly yet, or won't even know... And you change your mind so much about characters - you can't decide if you love or loathe them, until you eventually love them for being so emotionally twisty! Also, I like that the characters make foolish decisions - makes for a more interesting story, no?
But.... Whitecloaks?! *shivers*
I did forget to list Whitcloaks in my list of conflicting parties, though, didn't I? Hmmm.
I've been jumping up and down the flat and screeching!!!! OH MY GOODNESS!!!!!!!!! OH!!!!!
The ending was just amazing!!! Oh my word!!!! I can't believe it! WOWOWOWOWOW! I cn't calm down... I've never had such a reaction to a book. Never! But I can't believe how the end line of Ch 55 made me squeal and exclaim! I'm still shaking. Such a visceral reaction to a book.....
Blimey. I'm shaking so much I can hadrly type...
I won't give much away, but the chapter ends in "...and the world was changed forever".
Calm down, Leish.
Phew.
Oh, still shaking...
Well, I meant to say something earlier, so I'll say it now. I, Brian, your reaction reminds me a lot of my old self. Before reading WoT, I very much read to learn, to see how published work compares and to, you know, be able to know books and authors. Over the years I'd gone from a book lover to digesting books for knowledge.
And then Seph told me what I was doing - and what I'd lost as a result. I was finding books not so engaging, and things made me frustrated. I was reading them, thinking about technical things as I went, cringing at errors that had slipped through the publishing net - and I wondered why I wasn't getting enjoyment from reading. Yet I kept trying other books...
Then Seph told me to learn to switch off my writer's brain and just read the words. And if I must ponder on things, to do so afterward, after I've put the book down. It was a scene in book two, a description of a beautiful white place, that I rediscovered my love of reading. I feel in love with the words and phrasing, with the images I had in my head and the character's thoughts about the place. It took a long time to learn how to keep my writer's brain switch off, cos it kept sneaking back as I read... but now I'm so grateful I can read as a reader again.
You don't realise how much you miss, being a writer-reader. And, when you think about it, you've lost something vital as a writer: the ability to read with wonder and to feel. Feeling books is the only way to be able to properly understand what it is the author's achieved - how he twists the reader's emotions through words alone - and stand some chance at emulating it. I know I will try to write things that have such moments of high emotion as WoT does.
Gah! Still shaking. I can't wait to pick up book seven!
And, to address some other concerns people had, I will say these points:
1) No, I don't hate the women. Actually, there's one or two that bug me, but you know what? That's fantastic. It means I feel something, and not every emotion is positive. It just shows me how I like some women, but others - certain posh ones, ahem - do things to men I like that I can't forgive. As for braid-pulling, only one character does it a lot, and it's even a running joke in the series, about how she knows she does it and everyone else does, too, so she's embarrassed. I love her, truthfully. As for certain... actions/expressions some women do a lot, I think that's Jordan's bugbear. I have a nasty habit of my characters "gazing" or "smiling" too much when I write them. {0.0}
2) Pacing. I don't have a problem with it. In fact, WoT has taught me a lot. For example, when something's really not important, Jordan skips it. Look how well it's handled in these two instances near the end of book six, when readers are on the edge of their seats:
"The sun climbed higher and the sun grew lower, and by the time they made camp at twilight, he estimated they might have come as much as thirty-five miles. A good day's travel; excellent for so large a party."
"One thing did become clear. Perrin was covering as much ground each day as he had the first, and each day he sliced as much as ten miles from the Aes Sedai lead."
Now, isn't that a great way to avoid extraneous detail? Some writers would describe the journey.
Jonathan, oh, I envy you!!! You have some WOWOW moment to come in that book! And I mean wow! A certain sequence of... scenes... will have you shaking. And there's another WHAT?! moment after that for someone else, though I won't give anything away, although fingers crossed you haven't spoiled too much for yourself (and don't do that again, mister! *waggles finger*).
It's nice to have you on-board! I'd be interested to hear your views of the books if you do get around to reading the rest.
be aware that, in my opinion at least, the villains become not so throwaway and the women... well... there's a heck of a lot more women in the story, and I LOVE some of them dearly, so make of that what you will. Some women you won't have met properly yet, or won't even know... And you change your mind so much about characters - you can't decide if you love or loathe them, until you eventually love them for being so emotionally twisty! Also, I like that the characters make foolish decisions - makes for a more interesting story, no?
But.... Whitecloaks?!
*shivers*I did forget to list Whitcloaks in my list of conflicting parties, though, didn't I? Hmmm.
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