First 250 words of Galaxy of Flowers

[allmywires]

Yeah, I like that a lot better. But I wouldn't go against your gut feeling to write it in first if you want too...

 

[Hex]

I like the third person version better as well BUT I think that's because:

(a) you're far more in her head in third (I know how she feels about Dex -- I know she's pleased about the cake -- I know how she feels about SpaceCon and their shiny offices etc). Why is the interaction more complicated and informative here?

(b) some of the first person present stuff slips easily in and out of third, and sounds better in third. I think that's because it was written that way (or with that happening in your mind) and it doesn't have a first present feel.

You can do first person present, of course. You'll do it until you get it (being you) and that'll take about 30 seconds (being you). BUT if it writes this way in 3rd, though. I think you should consider that.

I often struggle with writing past tense. For some reason I keep wanting to write present. I know how it feels when something wants to be written in a particular way. I can't write third -- or I haven't managed yet -- everything I do comes out feeling flat and uninteresting. So if something needs to be written one way, then it needs to happen. Not very helpful, am I.

ps: thanks, alc

 

[Jo Zebedee]

You are very kind. This one might be the one I give up on... ( you might be right, that it will niggle until i crack it, though). I might be the first person to write in third to get close and translates to first.

I am wondering a couple of things, firstly was the other scene the stronger start as per Alc's spanner in the works; there's always one ... And if so this would become a flashback scene which moves it into past one way or another. (Annoyingly, i suspect, having read over it, that he might be right.)

Also, i am wondering with the Mum's memories in first - which they definitely are - would the third past give more contrast between the voices.

I also worry about the ya feel of first/ present and my tendency to move towards adult themes as stories develop.

Sigh, driving a bit today, thinking time will be useful.

Ty all

 

[Mouse]

I always find it quite interesting (I say 'quite' cos it's not massively interesting really!) that people say it's more difficult to write in one tense than the other. To me, it's the same. However I'm writing I'm always writing as that character. I find it as easy to write in first present as first past.

Now, I'm not saying that to boast. I'm saying it because I reckon it's the same for you guys but you've just got a panic on about it and are doubting your ability. springs, you could pretty much write anything you liked and it would be bloody brilliant!

 

[crystal haven]

Just to be awkward, the setting doesn't do it for me. Birthday in the orphanage v standing outside ready for a momentous event: the latter wins.

Apart from that, very good. Hex has broken my resolve to hate first person.

Hi Springs. I agree with Alchemist on this - I'm afraid the setting doesn't work for me either.

I prefer the third person version, but it's got more in there, so I don't think it's a true comparison.

And I agree with Mouse - have faith in yourself.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

springs, you could pretty much write anything you liked and it would be bloody brilliant!

At the risk of making the kids late for school and me late for work, I had to sign on and say you're an adorable rodent. I think Brian's right, I need to settle on one and write the dang thing! I will. I even have a plan of sorts.

Hi Springs. I agree with Alchemist on this - I'm afraid the setting doesn't work for me either.

And I agree with Mouse - have faith in yourself.

Thanks, Crystal. I heard the nail going into the coffin with this version last night. Back to my sweet smell of snow...

But, my mind is a little clearer for this, so thanks everyone. I was starting to resemble one of those robots in robot wars when they lose their wheels and just spin in little circles...

 

[ctg]

Darling Springs I thought you'd already got over the beginning of this piece as I so clearly remember critiquing this stuff for you. And as other has said, the first present isn't suitable for this story, where as I think close third for her and first past for the mother will make excellent.

The reason is that you're not changing the tense in fly and it's more understandable for the potential readers - not just us. And then the other reason is that as you progress further and encounter more characters, you can use the third person character switch easily than thinking how to ef you're going to do that.

You're not writing this for a competition. At least I would like think so. And even if you're in the long run you're going to end up in trouble if you keep in present course. The current form will change the style of your writing. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd like to think that for now, the first present should be kept for short stories only.

 

[Warren_Paul]

PS it probably is young adult, this one. For once.

You sure it isn't New Adult?

Sorry, just trying to confuse you there. But when you think about it, considering the concept of the story, you most likely could put it in that genre. The concept fits well.

Anyway, late to the party and don't have anything more to add, really, other than to say your third person is only stronger because you gave us more of her feeling in that version than you did in the present.

The present-tense version had a lot of good information in it, but the emotional side of the scene was very distanced, as Hex rightfully pointed out. If you were to give us those emotions, then the present-tense would be fine, as the writing itself is good.

You are clearly more comfortable writing 3rd-person though. That's obvious. And I'd also advise using it, as the switch between present and past probably won't be all that noticeable, to be honest.

 

[HareBrain]

Eek! In my day "late to the party" meant commenting after a week, not eleven hours.

Anyway, I agree that the third-past version read a lot better than the first-present one, and I'd go with pretty much all of Hex's comments. I'm afraid the first one did read like a translation into first-present by someone who wasn't really into it. (Mind you, I'm pretty sure I've read some published first-present stuff that read like that too.)

I personally think first-present is very difficult to do well, and I'm not very forgiving of it. If you use it, then I think you need to do something with it that you could not do in third person or past-tense (and/or have a very strong gut instinct that you need to use it).

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Third it is, then, thanks everyone. I will make a decision about which scene to start with in about another forty thousand words. And the difference in the two scenes, bizarrely, it just the difference between how i think in first and in third - i do a lot of first passages over to third, and they always end up expanded on... I know, i know, i will go sit in the odd way to write corner... Feeling tons more confident now, thanks all.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

Sorry to hijack thread but you have reminded me that my very first handwritten draft of Mayhem was written in third past. I still have no idea how it ended up first person present tense. I'm going to switch to third for my initial draft of the sequel as well to see if that helps.

 

[JoanDrake]

You are very kind. This one might be the one I give up on... ( you might be right, that it will niggle until i crack it, though). I might be the first person to write in third to get close and translates to first.

I am wondering a couple of things, firstly was the other scene the stronger start as per Alc's spanner in the works; there's always one ... And if so this would become a flashback scene which moves it into past one way or another. (Annoyingly, i suspect, having read over it, that he might be right.)

Also, i am wondering with the Mum's memories in first - which they definitely are - would the third past give more contrast between the voices.

I also worry about the ya feel of first/ present and my tendency to move towards adult themes as stories develop.

Sigh, driving a bit today, thinking time will be useful.

Ty all

I've read somewhere that Pearl Buck got her unique style by writing first in Chinese, (her native language) and then translating.

It's clear, piques my curiousity, and presents a likeable main character, I would read on. You're certainly among the best writers here but I don't think Hemingway could expect more from 250 words

I think all quality YAs tend to move toward adult themes. In fact, I don't really believe in YA at all. LotR is a children's story. A good book is a good book

 

[Warren_Paul]

Eek! In my day "late to the party" meant commenting after a week, not eleven hours.

Yes, but this thread moved so fast I felt like I had to catch up with the rest.


You don't have to write it in 3rd like we suggested if you don't want to, Springs. You must have picked first for some reason?

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Yes, but this thread moved so fast I felt like I had to catch up with the rest.


You don't have to write it in 3rd like we suggested if you don't want to, Springs. You must have picked first for some reason?

I picked it - or rather, it picked first - partly because there is only one person telling the story, so it seemed a logical thing to try. But then I kept getting frustrated cos the flow wasn't right, and switched back to third. And then last night, I ground to a halt when I was switching between both. I had half decided yesterday to go with third for Leda and first for mum, so the responses backed up a feeling that had been building. Also, i need to make a choice, or i will never write the blinking thing.

Thanks, Joan, for your crit, and kind words, you always find the positives.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

Umm... well taking your advice has made a difference. I moved my draft into 3rd past, wrote a chapter that I was very blocked with and then translated it back to first present. The third chapter has happened as well. I'm about to do the same with the first chapter that I struggled with. What it allowed me to do was create the scene, describe the room, characters etc and that then helped me work out how to do it in first-present. It is still very rough but flowing.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Umm... well taking your advice has made a difference. I moved my draft into 3rd past, wrote a chapter that I was very blocked with and then translated it back to first present. The third chapter has happened as well. I'm about to do the same with the first chapter that I struggled with. What it allowed me to do was create the scene, describe the room, characters etc and that then helped me work out how to do it in first-present. It is still very rough but flowing.

Fab!

 

[Tecdavid]

The first line was certainly hooky. It sounded random enough to get me blinking, for sure.

The setting is set perfectly well, however it did seem a bit odd (to me, at least) to hear the term "SpaceCon" all of a sudden. I had it in my head that this was more of a olden-day orphanage, and that this was set in the past, but that might because most orphanage scenes I've... er, seen, have taken place in the past.
The very last line is hooky too. This SpaceCon is holding a person's memories are they?

 

[tinkerdan]

I like both the first person and third person versions. There may be some elements changed about the third person version, which would easily be incorporated in the first person so I think that either way works.

If you are writing a whole novel you might not want to write it all this way. I've seen some of my favorite authors start this way and then move into third person narrative. And I've seen some do an entire novel with first person present tense.

I think one problem from a critical point of view is that first person narrative is it's difficult to critique. After all how much of The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn contains good grammar.

I don't write, so I'm not sure what the deal with YA and first person is but I do read a lot of YA and it is not all first person and I'm not even sure if I started striking books from my shelf that I'd find the percentage of first person books on my YA shelf to be significantly larger than my adult shelf.

That much said, she is a young adult and she's having a birthday party so yes that looks young adult.

On the other hand if someone complained that self publishing contained a larger percentage of first person then I might concede to that point. Still what matters most is what is written around the point of view and not the point of view itself.

I really don't think its a bad thing for a writer to strike out in other directions and I would not suggest that writing differently than there norm might damage their writing style. I don't think you can damage your writing ability, at least not with POV.

Possibly because this is an opening part of the book people expect that there be some major hook and of course your best writing should show up here- as long as the rest of your writing lives up to that.

I think the first person works here and I think that by the end we had a fair hook though it might have taken a few paragraphs to build up to it I'm not sure it would work as well if you flip flop it to put the last paragraph's information at the top.

I don't think it hurts to start the pace slow and use that time to develop your character to the reader. That might be the one thing that could be missed going this way but I don't think you missed; as much as have a slight bit of withdrawal from the character.

In this part it doesn't hurt because its too short. You have plenty of time to develop character in the coming paragraphs.

I think that either way you write it the real question is do you want to come into the story with both barrels blazing or do you want to slow dance into it?

 

[Glitch]

For me the hook started in the last paragraph, but it wasn't smooth.

Also, 'Mount Pleasant', that name rings a bell.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Pleasant_(TV_series) ... I've never seen the programme, so can't comment on how good it is.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

Mount Pleasant is a street in Liverpool where the Metropolitan Cathedral is. There used to be an orphanage there - number 96 I think. There is a grave stone in the Anglican Cathedral with about fifty dead children - it remains the saddest gravestone I think I have ever read. I am pretty sure that was Mount Pleasant Orphanage. The name hooked me straight away. (I am now trying to remember back to when I was about eleven).