Joe Abercrombie defends gritty fantasy

[Kissmequick]

*I know it's not her article. You get what I mean.

Wish it was -- it expresses what I was trying to. Only with less bile...

About small breasts moving freely (not a sentence I thought I'd be writing today...), if you're in tight third POV, it's -- well most women just aren't going to narrate that in that way. I notice I have boobs at times (I put on a bit of weight lately -- needed to as well -- and my boobs grew. They started to bounce -- never have before, so I noticed! Or if I'm about to wear something that sans bra may be a little risque I'll think 'need a bra for that one') but as someone upthread said, not many male characters walk around narrating 'I walked away, dressed to the left, scrotum bouncing gently'. It may work in that scene though, if what she is wearing and that she's covered both boobies is part of the point. It's been a while since I read it.

But it's certainly something worth thinking about -- not that characters shouldn't notice things, but whether this character would. (My MC in Fade to Black is, well, he's an unabashed womaniser. He gets abashed later But it was quite odd looking at the world through his eyes, seeing what he would notice rather than what I would, and describing it in his terms.)

 

[allmywires]

This is getting onto a bit of a weird discussion buuuuutt...

I barely ever think about my boobs and mine are of a fair size, and I'd never get away with (or want to!) not wearing a bra. I just don't. They're just there. And as regards to characters noting them in my WIP, it only ever happens to one of my characters, and that's because she had a forced mastectomy so she doesn't have any. That, I figure, is something people who just meet her would probably notice. She doesn't go around noticing everyone else's boobs, though, or maybe she should...Boob envy.

Going to stop talking about boobs now and get back to work.

 

[Mouse]

I look forward to that post if you do decide to write it up.

I've sort of chickened out a bit cos it probably would've been quite personal and possibly a bit ranty.

I barely ever think about my boobs and mine are of a fair size, and I'd never get away with (or want to!) not wearing a bra.

'Scuse I, missus, there's nothing wrong with being able to get away with not wearing a bra! Means I can wear more tops than you.

And I'd definitely notice your friend's boobs over her underbite. My officemate has got a fair old sized uh... pair on her and I think that was the first thing I noticed about her. (I just wrote 'them' then! ha!) It's not boob envy, I don't think.

Don't men check out other men's crotches more than women do? Wasn't that on QI? (We're way off topic now.)

Bouncing scrotum. Heh.

 

[Ursa major]

Don't men check out other men's crotches more than women do? Wasn't that on QI? (We're way off topic now.)

Are you sure that this wasn't Fry's personal... er... view?

Bouncing scrotum. Heh.

Can we expect Chronners' manuscripts to contain bags more of this sort of image?

 

[thaddeus6th]

I was going to have a castration scene in my WIP, but it didn't quite fit.

 

[Mouse]

Are you sure that this wasn't Fry's personal... er... view?

Ha!

It wasn't just men looking at other men. Men also check out male animals' parts too.

 

[Boneman]

I was going to have a castration scene in my WIP, but it didn't quite fit.

The character wasn't cut out for it?

 

[Ursa major]

I was going to have a castration scene in my WIP, but it didn't quite fit.

I thought you were going to say that you dropped this scene like a stone.

Ha!

It wasn't just men looking at other men. Men also check out male animals' parts too.

"That's dog's ******** are the dog's ********!" kind of thing, you mean?

These researchers... er... lead interesting lives, not. And one has to wonder how they select their subjects.

 

[Coragem]

Richard Morgan and "GRIMDARK".

Hi Guys:

So, Joe Abercrombie has recently defended gritty fantasy.

Now Richard Morgan has passed comment on "grimdark".

Read this, it's hilarious:

http://www.richardkmorgan.com/news/982/grim-dark-and-straw/

Coragem.

 

[Brian G Turner]

Re: Richard Morgan and "GRIMDARK".

Will move this into the Abercrombie thread.

 

[Mark_Lawrence]

Re: Richard Morgan and "GRIMDARK".

Will move this into the Abercrombie thread.

Some great replies from Morgan in the comments:

- Truth is, I fear this is an ideological matter (oddly enough, I’ve seen the same kvetching about GrimDark come in from both ends of the political spectrum – something I find very interesting indeed, though I’m still not sure what it might mean). And the defining characteristic of the ideological mindset is a vast, childish intolerance of difference. It’s not enough to just avoid something you don’t like – you want it eradicated because It Is Evil!!

- I guess it’s just the latest in the endless round of hissy fits that SF & Fantasy maintains in place of a genuine critical sensibility. But even by those standards, it’s pretty incoherent, sulky stuff and stunningly parochial with it. GrimDark appears to have become shorthand for “fantasy with nasty things in it that offend my delicate sensibilities” – whatever those particular sensibilities happen to be. Quite how these people would cope with SF by Peter Watts, crime fiction by Val McDermid or James Ellroy, let alone mainstream literary efforts like McCarthy’s Blood Meridian or Bret Easton Ellis’s Imperial Bedrooms, or even Lionel Shriver’s We Need To Talk About Kevin I do not know. I guess the short answer is They Wouldn’t!

I want to read his books now!

 

[randomfromamber]

Re: Richard Morgan and "GRIMDARK".

Some great replies from Morgan in the comments:

- Truth is, I fear this is an ideological matter (oddly enough, I’ve seen the same kvetching about GrimDark come in from both ends of the political spectrum – something I find very interesting indeed, though I’m still not sure what it might mean). And the defining characteristic of the ideological mindset is a vast, childish intolerance of difference. It’s not enough to just avoid something you don’t like – you want it eradicated because It Is Evil!!

- I guess it’s just the latest in the endless round of hissy fits that SF & Fantasy maintains in place of a genuine critical sensibility. But even by those standards, it’s pretty incoherent, sulky stuff and stunningly parochial with it. GrimDark appears to have become shorthand for “fantasy with nasty things in it that offend my delicate sensibilities” – whatever those particular sensibilities happen to be. Quite how these people would cope with SF by Peter Watts, crime fiction by Val McDermid or James Ellroy, let alone mainstream literary efforts like McCarthy’s Blood Meridian or Bret Easton Ellis’s Imperial Bedrooms, or even Lionel Shriver’s We Need To Talk About Kevin I do not know. I guess the short answer is They Wouldn’t!

I want to read his books now!

If you like stuff that's very dark, and very intense, I would definitely recommend him.