The Classics of Science Fiction 1818 - 2004

[Ian Whates]

We should all be critical in our reading. Otherwise, nothing will ever improve.

We are all critical in our reading, Ian. It's just that not everyone's opinion coincides with yours; which doesn't make you wrong or them wrong, just different.

 

[Fried Egg]

We are all critical in our reading, Ian. It's just that not everyone's opinion coincides with yours; which doesn't make you wrong or them wrong, just different.

Ah, but don't forget that Ian Sales believes that what's good and bad in fiction (as well as many other things no doubt) is completely objective. At least that's my understanding of his view.

 

[Ian Whates]

Ah, but don't forget that Ian Sales believes that what's good and bad in fiction (as well as many other things no doubt) is completely objective. At least that's my understanding of his view.

Yes, I'm aware of that, FE. My own view on the subject has always been considerably more... inclusive.

 

[Sourdust]

We are all critical in our reading, Ian. It's just that not everyone's opinion coincides with yours; which doesn't make you wrong or them wrong, just different.

Indeed. There is never a 100% consensus on aesthetic matters, even among the 'experts' (literary critics, academics, etc). There may be clusters of probable agreement based on similar sets of evaluative criteria, but that's not quite the same thing.

As for:

I have a low opinion of commercial fiction, irrespective of genre. While it has its place, and is enjoyed by many (including myself on occasion), it does not belong on lists purporting to show the best that fiction is capable of achieving.

The majority of sf, including the good stuff, was published as 'commercial fiction'. By this logic, literary fiction that sold less than most sf titles would automatically be better. Is Thomas Pynchon, for instance, unquestionably superior to any sf author of the 60s/70s? Many academic critics would say yes (e.g. that inveterate canon-builder, Harold Bloom), but then they tend to have a strong bias against genre. Following this reductio, someone like William Gaddis must be better than Pynchon, being even less commercial, and Joyce's Finnegans Wake is probably the greatest book of the century, since so few people have read it. It's an elitist position, held by many intellectuals, but surely difficult to reconcile with a taste for science fiction.

 

[iansales]

We are all critical in our reading, Ian. It's just that not everyone's opinion coincides with yours; which doesn't make you wrong or them wrong, just different.

Plainly not everyone is, or the usual list of sf "classics" would look very different...

 

[iansales]

Ah, but don't forget that Ian Sales believes that what's good and bad in fiction (as well as many other things no doubt) is completely objective. At least that's my understanding of his view.

It's my view that books can be judged objectively to be bad or good, or somewhere in between, yes. It's pretty much what the study of literature is based on.

 

[alchemist]

Ah, but don't forget that Ian Sales believes that what's good and bad in fiction (as well as many other things no doubt) is completely objective. At least that's my understanding of his view.

Whilst I might disagree with Ian on this (if it is an accurate interpretation of what he said)...

Battlefield Earth is a "notable omission"? I think not. It's a terrible book and an even worse film. Without the backing of the Scientologists, it would have languished in obscurity where it rightfully belongs.

... if ever it could be shown that a book is objectively bad, this would be the book. "Terrible" is being kind to it.

 

[Ian Whates]

Plainly not everyone is, or the usual list of sf "classics" would look very different...

... in your opinion, Ian, and that's the point.

... if ever it could be shown that a book is objectively bad, this would be the book. "Terrible" is being kind to it.

No argument from me on that score, I promise you.

 

[watervole]

you really should read Zanzibar p Brunner is one of the most unappreciated writers of his generation - he can tell a great story but is also a great styalist