Inferiority and Writing

[BetaWolf]

I think that great literature can do both. But it is no easy task to be both a fine example of your craft and appealing to the reader looking for an hour of escape and little else. I'd say there's nothing wrong with either, but ideally they work together. I think few writers are able to accomplish it, though. Shakespeare comes to mind.

 

[Gumboot]

I think that great literature can do both. But it is no easy task to be both a fine example of your craft and appealing to the reader looking for an hour of escape and little else. I'd say there's nothing wrong with either, but ideally they work together. I think few writers are able to accomplish it, though. Shakespeare comes to mind.

Shakespeare wasn't writing literature though, he was writing plays, which were the popular medium of the day. Filmmakers are the popular storytellers today, and they can certainly combine popular and well-crafted into one work, because their audience is very film literate.

The problem is the vast majority of people don't read much, so they're not literate in the written word, which means they struggle with good literature.

Take this passage from The Road, which is a Pulitzer-winning novel:

In the dream from which he'd wakened he had wandered in a cave where the child led him by the hand. Their light playing over the wet flowstone walls. Like pilgrims in a fable swallowed up and lost among the inward parts of some granitic beast. Deep stone flues where the water dripped and sang. Tolling in the silence the minutes of the earth and the hours and the days of it and the years without cease. Until they stood in a great stone room where lay a black and ancient lake. And on the far shore a creature that raised its dripping mouth from the rimstone pool and stared into the light with eyes dead white and sightless as the eggs of spiders. It swung its head low over the water as if to take the scent of what it could not see. Crouching there pale and naked and translucent, its alabaster bones cast up in shadow on the rocks behind it. Its bowels, its beating heart. The brain that pulsed in a dull glass bell. It swung its head from side to side and then gave out a low moan and turned and lurched away and loped soundlessly into the dark.

In total honesty, I would say that the vast majority of my friends wouldn't even understand what the above passage meant. They probably wouldn't even finish it. There's no way they'd be able to wade through an entire novel like that. And I'm not being a snob or anything. They quite simply just haven't ever learned how to read complex literature.

 

[BetaWolf]

I see your point. So what is the solution, then? The popular writers do put in some important themes, but it is generally secondary to all the action that is going on.

 

[Grinnel]

I have read lots of really awful books, some of them written by some rich and famous authors, and that helps.

It might also help if you look up some of the earliest published work of your hero. You might find it isn't anywhere near as well written as their famous stuff.

Heck, maybe if you wrote the author and explained the problem, he/she might have some words of encouragement for you.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

So what is the solution, then?

Need there be a solution? Where fiction is concerned, I think that most people read for pleasure. But of course we all enjoy different things and have different needs. If someone comes home after a horrible day at work, and wants to sit down and read a mediocre book because it distracts them from the frustrations of the day and helps to relax them, then why shouldn't they? It may mean fewer books that we might like are being written or published, but fortunately, being writers, we can write the books that no one else will write for us.

 

[BetaWolf]

Frankly, I don't have that much of an interest in literary fiction. I work a steady but not all that exciting job (and in a way I'm thankful for that), and once the day's work is done I want to write good, simple adventure fantasy, the kind of thing that I want to read myself on the bus home or once the kid is in bed and dishes are washed.

I get the greatest pleasure out of Glen Cook's Black Company books and Bernard Cornwell's Sharpe books. GRRM is a bit too heady for me sometimes; I have to be in the mood really.

 

[prizzley]

I know I'm a cynic, but what have have sales (numbers of) to do with writing quality? How many books have you bought that were either appallingly written (in your opinion) or dull/nasty/facile etc etc (IYO)? I'm constantly trying to improve my writing, but I don't kid myself that it will improve my marketing.

 

[Toby Frost]

No offence, but I thought The Road without have been about twice as good without all that epic mock-King-James-Bible stuff. To my mind, it just seemed pretentious, but then it did include my pet hate of pet hates, speech without punctuation marks. "Good prose is like a window pane" is over-quoted and not quite right, but if you ask me the best writing is often the clearest.

I agree about the empty lead character: the way I've heard her described by a lot of reviewers, Bella sounds rather like one of those pairs of arms you see in computer games like Doom, holding the gun. The rest of Mr Doom's character is you. I'd be interested to know if there could be a male equivalent of Twilight, given how blatantly it seems to appeal to female ideal-boyfriend stuff. I doubt the male version would be in printed form, though: it would probably be a magazine, with centrefolds.

As an aside, I know a teacher who is certain that the only books several of his students have ever read without being made to are the rulebooks for Warhammer. He's also sure that they'll never read anything else. Well, it's better than nothing, I suppose!

 

[Toby Frost]

Sorry to double-post, but I've been thinking about this quite a bit.

While I'm not aiming this at anyone in particular, there have been several threads recently about insecurity in writing - basically, the question of "Am I really up to this?"

At the end of the day, of course, you either want to write a book or you don't, but I'm not sure how helpful that observation is. If it helps, a writer doesn't have to be very good at writing to be published, and I can think of at least two massive-selling series where the writing is mediocre or worse. Also, I wonder how many writers look back on their stuff and think "Gosh, that's brilliant!". I don't, for what it's worth. Chances are, you are going to feel that what you've produced could be better (which is what editing is for). That said, a finished book with problems (a partial failure, you might say) is infinitely better than a book which you didn't write at all (a total failure).

But what I think is important to realise is that since writing a book is a long process no matter what, and there are going to be periods, potentially big ones, where you don't feel especially inspired but have to get the thing done. I find that too many writing guides and lecturers talk about creative writing as if it's a kind of supernatural channelling, like being a medium or a dowser. You sit in your garrett, living off crusts and opium, and one day the muses descend holding your book. For me at least, it doesn't work like that.

I think it's less of a mystical art than a skilled craft, like making a chair. Whether you produce a Chippendale (which is genuine art) or an Ikea Special (which may less so), the work has to happen and a lot of wood has to be assembled, in the same way that a lot of words have to go onto the page.

Of course this throws up a load more issues, including how you respond to criticism: how to stay cheerful when your work is covered in red pen, what to ignore and what to follow. That's a whole thread in itself. In short, and in general: beware the person who wants you to write a different book, or a different character entirely (no, my miserable and androgynous heroine is not Catwoman, thanks!), be wary about people who are too certain that you're doing it wrong ("I think..." is much better than "You must..."), and if the criticism itself isn't coherent, or is written in slang or internet speak, ignore it. But that's probably a different issue.

This isn't to suggest that people here are being naive or shouldn't persist: quite the opposite. But I do find that the semi-spiritual style of a lot of writing articles doesn't feel (fully) realistic. Writing is creative, but perhaps not in the ecstatic way that some articles suggest. Oh, and chances are, if you're on a forum like this, you're probably a long way to being serious enough about it all to end up being good.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

Toby, I really want that thanks button. That is a great post.

 

[Gumboot]

I see your point. So what is the solution, then? The popular writers do put in some important themes, but it is generally secondary to all the action that is going on.

I don't think it's so much that there's a "solution" but rather, it's something to be aware of as a writer. You can be a critically acclaimed writer of literature, whose work will last through the years, or you can be a popular author who's widely read and makes a good living.

It's highly unlikely you'll achieve both, and the more you aim for one, the harder the other will be.

I don't think either direction is "better", but as a writer I think it's worthwhile to think about which direction is better for you.

Not to say that you shouldn't attempt to achieve both, but the reality is you'll probably fail.

 

[paranoid marvin]

I wonder how many writers like their own work, or at least like to read it?

It's odd, because some of my entries in the monthly 75/300 word Challenge on this forum defy expectation. Over the last couple of years. For instance, the one I thought I did my best work on only gained 1 vote, whilst other months I have got far more votes than I thought I deserved.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

I wonder how many writers like their own work, or at least like to read it?

.

I do. I really enjoy my stories.

Probably really sad but I make them a cover before sending it to Kindle to read.

 

[Mirannan]

I'm very early in the cycle, and will probably never get as good as I might given enough time, but it seems to me that writing original material (particularly imaginative fiction - such things as sales copy are a different matter) is like any other skill. There is innate talent, and present skill, and one doesn't determine the other although there is obviously a connection.

Try reading really old stuff from the Grand Old Masters of SF such as (for example) Asimov. To a large degree, it's utter crap.

 

[Kissmequick]

I wonder how many writers like their own work, or at least like to read it?

I'd rather spork my own eyes out, tbh

I'm reading galley proofs atm. One, I've read this story a bajillion time already. Two, I keep thinking, man, I could have done better there, that's really unsubtle, Doh!, oh jeez that part sucks I should have made him....

Although, to be fair, every now and again I look at a passage and think 'Who wrote that? Not me, surely....it's ok!'

 

[Wanted Hero]

Just a quick question. How do you guys cope with feeling inferior to your author hero? I know in my heart that I just have to keep writing and writing and reading and practicing, but lately I just can't see how I can ever create something as amazing as my literary hero. My work feels lame in comparison, though I won't ever give up on it. But honestly, I will never write something so wonderful. Which isn't the best when I'm trying to write epic fantasy and I'm feeling like the characters and plot I love will never be as good as it needs to be...

Anyone have any advice outside of "grin and keep going"? How do you all cope?

Oh I can feel your pain, Leisha--but I got past it myself. It came down to definitions for me. One of my author heroes is David Farland. I love his Runelords series, as do my kids--then one day, a mutual friend brought us together and we had a chance to get to know one another. He's an incredible man--kind, brilliant, insightful and he gave me a great deal of encouragement. He told my wife and I that we had NY Times Bestselling potential, but we wanted to self-publish instead.

Now, I'm sharing this specifically because during the process, I had to define my "WHY's" for everything. I was a cartoonist before I became a YA fiction writer. I self-published this same story in cartoon form and for a time, had readers in 60 countries. I was never rich or famous, but it kept growing and I was very happy. Everyone said I couldn't do it--but again, my comic book hero (Dave Sim of Cerebus) actually took the time to teach me through letters. Showed me how to be the best I could be.

Then he told me to run as fast as I could.

My definition of "success" never had anything to do with David. That meant my books never had to be as "good" as David's either. I stopped comparing, because it was silly to do so. I'm NOT David Farland! I'm Jaime Buckley and I'm writing because that's what I was meant to do.

No, I'm not perfect. But I learn and grow and keep applying new knowledge to my craft. However, as I give this all I have, I get some interesting feedback from readers. Here's a community review from Goodreads:

Now, in my opinion, Jaime Buckley isn't an Ernest Miller Hemingway, but he's making the most of what he has. You can tell he has a limited vocabulary, but the writing gets better with each release. These small glitches are easily over looked by a few factors, IMO:

One, the world creation and storyline are first-rate. Truly breathtaking and engaging. Have have not seen this kind of depth in world-creation since Tolkien and the Wheel of Time series.
Two, as I mentioned, Buckley is getting better, as the story continues. It feels, at least to me--that he's having more fun with the story...compared to Prelude to a Hero.
Three, his eBook formatting is better than many New York Times Bestselling books I've paid ten times the price for! An Indie author with a better quality book? Seems to be the case with Buckley.
Four, the more I read about this author, the more interested I get. He's linking projects together. He's a dad with eleven freaking kids!! I can see where he might get some inspiration from, hehe.

I don't know where this storyline is going...but I'm hitching along for the full ride!

There will always, always be someone with more talent, intelligence, insight, connections, popularity...and the list goes on. So what. You need to learn to be the best Leisha you can be. Look inward, not outward. Use what you admire in others as inspiration, but not a focus or a comparison. It turns to poison if you're not careful.

You're trying to craft and carve something out for yourself, not to take the place of someone else.

Does that make sense?
Just want to encourage you