I think we might be able to work with elliptic orbits. The speed will be near c at the pericenter and lower (can't tell by how much right now) at the apocenter. There may be a way to gradually release charge, so that at each pass from the pericenter, we have a lower speed. This type of calculation will be a bit hard for me, but I'll try to give it a shot. Oh, and this type of method would most definitely require corrective actions. There's probably no way to avoid the effect of solar wind etc if you start having large ellipses.
Original space travel idea?
- Thread starter cakrit
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That's your problem I suspect (the detailed physics for this one are beyond me sadly) but I suspect an elliptic orbit with near C speeds at the pericentre is going to be and awfully big orbit with an extremely long period. Sadly, I also suspect any attempt to bring that speed down is going to take so long it might negate the benefit of sending it at such high speeds in the first place.
Ah, you're thinking of a little accelerator, like the LHC. Hardly reaches St. Genis from Meyrin (I live on the other side of Geneva). And goes round and round, with the velocity and mass increasing with each circuit.
I was thinking of a big accelerator built in space, and planning for a linear, at least light minutes in length. Perhaps even a structure, but mainly held in place by continuous correction by some form of drive, probably multidirectional ion projectors. Probably fusion generators at each acceleration coil/plate. Focusing coils practically the entire length. Only a few kilowatts, those, so probably get their power either by microwave beaming or superconducting cables from the node points. Expensive, yes, but easily extendable, adaptable when you need more oomph.
Um (takes off science pedant hat, puts it down next to grammar pedant hat, and puts on mod hat) In this site we sort of prefer people not to do multiple sequential posts. Oh, it happens, 'specially when commenting on writing challenges, but we definitely prefer using the multiple quote function (that's the pair of commas just next to "quote”) to answering each post individually, particularly as a way of getting to fifteen posts and link. While this is primarily to discourage spammers, and I understand that your enthusiasm was not to tell people about your new book or sell sport shoes, now you can link, do you think you could restrain yourself to one post at a time, per thread? Come over to the aspiring writers region and learn to put your technical ideas into elegant, reader-satisfying prose (well, no, I haven't got that far yet). Comment on your favourite authors, learn about what other people are reading… there are lots of friendly, polite, knowledgeable even helpful residents.
Or even, to improve your writing skills, get involved in the writing challenges. Don't get stuck in one little thread.
I was thinking of a big accelerator built in space, and planning for a linear, at least light minutes in length. Perhaps even a structure, but mainly held in place by continuous correction by some form of drive, probably multidirectional ion projectors. Probably fusion generators at each acceleration coil/plate. Focusing coils practically the entire length. Only a few kilowatts, those, so probably get their power either by microwave beaming or superconducting cables from the node points. Expensive, yes, but easily extendable, adaptable when you need more oomph.
Um (takes off science pedant hat, puts it down next to grammar pedant hat, and puts on mod hat) In this site we sort of prefer people not to do multiple sequential posts. Oh, it happens, 'specially when commenting on writing challenges, but we definitely prefer using the multiple quote function (that's the pair of commas just next to "quote”) to answering each post individually, particularly as a way of getting to fifteen posts and link. While this is primarily to discourage spammers, and I understand that your enthusiasm was not to tell people about your new book or sell sport shoes, now you can link, do you think you could restrain yourself to one post at a time, per thread? Come over to the aspiring writers region and learn to put your technical ideas into elegant, reader-satisfying prose (well, no, I haven't got that far yet). Comment on your favourite authors, learn about what other people are reading… there are lots of friendly, polite, knowledgeable even helpful residents.
Or even, to improve your writing skills, get involved in the writing challenges. Don't get stuck in one little thread.
A private message even with this paternalistic tone would have been welcome and I would have answered very politely, explaining to you why half of the things you wrote make no sense in my case. Now all I can say is good bye and too bad.
Very interesting idea. A couple of points IMHO worth making: First of all, the beam spread caused by mutual repulsion could be handled by neutralising the beam just after it's been accelerated - maybe by firing a diffuse electron beam at a very narrow angle to the nanite stream.
Secondly, one way of approaching the deceleration problem at the other end might be to use aerobraking in a big way. Sure, Earthlike planets don't have thick enough atmospheres to do the job - but there is nothing to say that there can't be a stop along the way. Make the first stop for the beam a nice fat local gas giant. I imagine that Saturn would be able to stop the beam!
After all, one could design the nanites to work at optimum efficiency in a gas giant atmosphere.
What a lovely thought. Our first warning of an interstellar invasion is that the equatorial region of Jupiter starts glowing blue...
Secondly, one way of approaching the deceleration problem at the other end might be to use aerobraking in a big way. Sure, Earthlike planets don't have thick enough atmospheres to do the job - but there is nothing to say that there can't be a stop along the way. Make the first stop for the beam a nice fat local gas giant. I imagine that Saturn would be able to stop the beam!
After all, one could design the nanites to work at optimum efficiency in a gas giant atmosphere.
What a lovely thought. Our first warning of an interstellar invasion is that the equatorial region of Jupiter starts glowing blue...
what about slingshoting around a planet not to increase velocity but to decrease it.. oh wait. Mirannan you just said that... my bad.
Cakrit, please don't be upset; no offense was meant by any of us and especially not chrispy. its actually his job to regulate things around here.
I looked over your equations, and they are a thing of beauty. are you sure about the acceleration factor? no conjunctive relativism factor?
i hope you are still peeking in. i will really miss having a concrete problem for my head to chew on. i haven't had this much fun since i explained to my third grade teacher why the computer hard drive kept shorting out.
And Mirannan, wouldn't that be a red shift across jupiter? deceleration and all imitating the wavelength of a quasar...
Cakrit, please don't be upset; no offense was meant by any of us and especially not chrispy. its actually his job to regulate things around here.
I looked over your equations, and they are a thing of beauty. are you sure about the acceleration factor? no conjunctive relativism factor?
i hope you are still peeking in. i will really miss having a concrete problem for my head to chew on. i haven't had this much fun since i explained to my third grade teacher why the computer hard drive kept shorting out.
And Mirannan, wouldn't that be a red shift across jupiter? deceleration and all imitating the wavelength of a quasar...
Jastius, my idea was a lot simpler and more brutal than that. Simply fire the beam directly at a handy gas giant. IMHO slingshotting at relativistic speeds is unlikely to work, unless you have a handy neutron star or black hole. As far as I know, the greatest possible velocity change from a slingshot is of the order of the escape velocity of the object you're using; completely trivial, when the item being slingshot is travelling at close to the speed of light.
FYI, slowing down can be achieved by induction heating (due to eddy currents) and transfer of energy to spin. Both require changing magnetic fields. For a dipole like earth, the magnetic field is stronger near the poles, which actually causes the plasma to be trapped (check out magnetic mirroring and drift). So the charged spheres can probably be captured in the same way and slowly lose both their charge and kinetic energy. I'm not going to continue here, at some point maybe I'll write a short story or something.
