Zeno agency

[The Judge]

Just to give everyone a heads-up http://zenoagency.com/news/some-thoughts-ahead-of-our-submissions-window/

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Interesting link, and I see they specifically mention the world fantasy convention, so it may be worth those of us who are attending mentioning it in our query letter? So, that's a bit of dusting of the letter coming up!

 

[Glitch]

Also in the submission guidelines.

...And if you have a web site, make sure you mention it, along with the address.

Might upset another thread

 

[Mouse]

Yeah saw this on Twitter a few days ago. Not sure I'll bother, I reckon they'll get hundreds and hundreds of subs.

 

[HareBrain]

Not getting at Zeno in particular, but the thing I am about to comment on has now reached critical mass in my mind and I feel compelled to comment.

Am I the only one who thinks a significant proportion of communications from publishing professionals now read as if they're addressed primarily to idiots and/or teens? Presumably they're not really intending to encourage submissions from these groups, so what's with all the exclamation marks and the "like, REALLY, REALLY busy!"

And even worse, "Actually, let me say that a bit louder – READ OUR GUIDELINES!!" If someone's too stupid or slapdash to read the guidelines without being yelled at, do they really want submissions from them either? Aren't they likely to fail several other tests?

From what I know of Zeno, they're intelligent people, so why adopt this chummy, informal-to-the-max internet baloney-speak? Tor did the same in their invitation to authors, and (from memory, I could be wrong) Angry Robot weren't far off. Who do they think they'll scare away by being more professional? Or is my interpretation of "professional" now hopelessly outdated? I feel about a hundred.

 

[Mouse]

Judging by the questions agents get asked repeatedly on #askagent on Twitter, I'd imagine they need to tell people in that way! Depressing, really.

 

[The Judge]

I think it's a combination of (a) some people do, indeed, fail to read the guidelines even when told to do so (I know from experience that you can write instructions in words of one syllable and people still do it wrong) so the capital letters might just get their attention long enough to make it sink in, and (b) even if they read them, some people think the rules don't apply to them, so a bit of re-inforcement is necessary, and (c) everyone is encouraged to be pally with everyone else in this attention-span-of-a-gnat media-friendly world of ours, and being formal now equates to being fusty, old-fashioned and therefore a turn-off for the potential writers of tomorrow.


I shall join you on the fusty, old-fashioned, hopelessly outdated couch, Mr HareBrain.

 

[Kissmequick]

Am I the only one who thinks a significant proportion of communications from publishing professionals now read as if they're addressed primarily to idiots and/or teens? Presumably they're not really intending to encourage submissions from these groups, so what's with all the exclamation marks and the "like, REALLY, REALLY busy!"

And even worse, "Actually, let me say that a bit louder – READ OUR GUIDELINES!!" If someone's too stupid or slapdash to read the guidelines without being yelled at, do they really want submissions from them either? Aren't they likely to fail several other tests?

I think they just want subs as they want them -- and you'd be surprised how many people* thing the guidelines 'aren't for them', 'ah, but this is different' or 'but my genius makes them irrelevant' or even just don't read the blooming things in the first place. It might weed out a few special snowflakes by ignoring them, but it still wastes a lot of their time (opening, rolling eyes, form rejecting)-- time they could be using to actually evaluate MSs. Frankly, it wastes everyone's time. By emphasising they are actually trying to help the novice, not-savvy writer not get a form from something easily avoided.

*I think I've seen a couple of places who reckon it's 15% or higher. That could be a heck of a lot if you're getting a lot of subs.

 

[Brian G Turner]

And even worse, "Actually, let me say that a bit louder – READ OUR GUIDELINES!!" If someone's too stupid or slapdash to read the guidelines without being yelled at, do they really want submissions from them either? Aren't they likely to fail several other tests?

I sometimes get submissions and pitches. There are some complete idiots out there. Agents consistently mention that the vast majority of submissions they receive are completely amateur, so the first challenge is to ensure approaching in a professional manner.

 

[HareBrain]

I should make it clear that my moan wasn't triggered so much by their request to read guidelines (which, apart from the yelling, I can understand, though I still think the chance of someone who needs to be told submitting something the agency would be interested in is next to nothing), but more by the tone of the whole piece, of which the guidelines thing was the worst example.

And "professional manner" works both ways, surely? If one of us approached Zeno with a cover letter sprinkled with exclamation marks and capslock, would they look at it twice?

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

And "professional manner" works both ways, surely? If one of us approached Zeno with a cover letter sprinkled with exclamation marks and capslock, would they look at it twice?

Good point. (Or should I say GOOD POINT!!!!)

Is there room for another on that couch?

 

[ctg]

Being in the same time at HV competition, should I attend? Or should I rewrite with the edit that I have in my mind and then attend on some later event?

 

[Glitch]

Slightly off topic. I followed the links from the Zeno resources page and found this.

http://www.jmtohline.com/2011/04/best-query-letters-dowhat.html

Come from a professional sounding email address. For example, if your name is Juliet Low, the email shouldn't come from MOMof3@aol.com or JohnLow@aol.com or sweetsugarpants@aol.com

 

[ctg]

It came from an agent, so think about it Glitch. You can have a fake address or a real one and when you submit, or even query, the unwritten business laws dictate that the address correlates with your "name." So therefore, as JJ said long time ago, "If you cannot submit with your name, don't do it. Don't try to sell a story that you cannot stand behind."

 

[Kissmequick]

Or perhaps. sugarpant@whatever just isn't professional. Treat it like you're taking it seriously.

And if the subs page makes you feel weird, easy. Don't sub to them. Not every agent is going to be a right fit for you, or you them. If you think the subs page makes you feel weird, find a different agent (though for the record, John is fiercely smart, and on the ball re selling your book. What would you rather? And ofc the subs guidelines are not fiction, where caps lock and exclamations are frowned upon. They are there to help a non-writers-forum savvy writer, who may have written something brilliant, to sub. Basically they do not want to reject you because you can't sub what they ask for - they are trying to help writers here. Maybe not you, but writers none the less)

 

[Glitch]

I wasn't disagreeing with the point. Just thought it was worth raising it for others who might not realise. If you have been using a free email address for many years,it can be easy to forget what it can mean.

Also another reason to have your own website. As then you have a better chance of a more professional email address.

 

[ctg]

True and the truth is, it's the story that sells and not the only email address.

 

[Mr Tagomi]

It's an unfortunate fact of writing for the Internet that you have to build in the assumption that whatever it is won't be read properly.

The key morsels of information have to stand out a mile.

Most of the time people just glance down a web page picking out phrases, so you have to make sure they pick out the right ones.

Excessive informality and textual "shouting" may be annoying and distasteful, but they're often more effective on the net than traditional-style prose.

That said, there are ways of achieving the same thing without being so unsubtle.

 

[Glitch]

From the link I posted, there were a lot of interesting points.

The agents seems to agree that while they couldn't remember the best queries, they could all remember the worst. The few that could remember the good ones said the query felt like the first page of a book, hooking them in and wanting to know more.

 

[Tirellan]

Amongst other things a query to an agency is a request to be taken seriously as a professional writer. If you do not have an e-mail address for your 'business messages', perhaps you should consider setting one up.