A tiny little apostrophe question

[Jo Zebedee]

So, I now (more or less) know the rules for possessive apostrophes. Yay!

But in this sentence:

How many more Ferran-V’s?

Ferran-V is a planet. I want to pluralise it, so if the same sentence had been about Earth, I'd have said Earths.

I think I read once that in the case where you have something which won't read right when pluralised ie

Ferran-Vs -- which looks like a bad Football fixture -- could be Ferran V's.

Is this true? Which is right? Hopelessly confused of Ulster...

 

[HareBrain]

It's definitely correct to use an apostrophe where you want to pluralise the letter V by itself, e.g. "there are two v's in Vivian", so I would hazard it's fine in this case too, since the V is essentially by itself.

 

[alchemist]

Harebrain once posted a link which said an apostrophe would be acceptable there e.g. CD's, DVD's.

For me, it's the same as sandals with socks -- technically acceptable but ugly as sin.

Edit: oh look, there he is, with his sandals and socks

 

[HareBrain]

Harebrain once posted a link which said an apostrophe would be acceptable there e.g. CD's, DVD's.

Let the sixteen pages begin!

Actually, I think that advice might be a little outdated. Although it used to be perfectly acceptable to use an apostrophe for pluralising acronyms, it's less so now. One would normally now put CDs.

And note that sandals with socks is perfectly acceptable if the sandals are burgundy leather, the socks are beige, and both are worn with starched knee-length shorts.

 

[AMB]

And aran sweaters?

 

[alchemist]

As an aside (and to distract everyone from the horrific images conjured above), settlers would never call a planer Ferran V (assuming Ferran is a star and the planet is the fifth from it). They'd give the planet its own name, like, er, Ferretopia.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

It's definitely correct to use an apostrophe where you want to pluralise the letter V by itself, e.g. "there are two v's in Vivian", so I would hazard it's fine in this case too, since the V is essentially by itself.

Perfect. The thread can end here.

As an aside (and to distract everyone from the horrific images conjured above), settlers would never call a planer Ferran V (assuming Ferran is a star and the planet is the fifth from it). They'd give the planet its own name, like, er, Ferretopia.

There's always one... We fought about this three years ago. Ferran is a gas giant - Ferran-V is one of its satellites. We either agreed then, or I decided to go my own merry way. Either way, it ain't changing, it's in all three books...

 

[Bowler1]

Perfect. The thread can end here.

I don't think so...


Google Answers: Grammar -- Plural of Abbreviation


The only time we accept an 's is when the acronym is separated with
periods. For example, Ph.D.'s."



The possessive of an acronym plural has the apostrophe after the s.

PBXs'
VLANs'
NICs'
PCs'



I'm with HB. Let the 16 pages of bun fighting begin.

 

[HareBrain]

The only time we accept an 's is when the acronym is separated with
periods. For example, Ph.D.'s."

Itself outdated. Who separates the letters of an acronym with full-stops these days?

The possessive of an acronym plural has the apostrophe after the s.

PBXs'
VLANs'
NICs'
PCs'

And what if two Ph.D.'s (using the above convention) were to own something? You'd have Ph.D.'s' The horror!

I'm with HB. Let the 16 pages of bun fighting begin.

Yay! And also, an Arran sweater is best worn with fishermen's waders and an athletic support.

 

[TheDustyZebra]

This is one that I would avoid entirely by rearranging the sentence. I don't like plural apostrophes, but I don't like how some things look without them, either. So instead of

How many more Ferran-Vs?

which is technically correct but ugly,

or

How many more Ferran-V's?

which looks better but is incorrect and makes me itch,

I would say

What about Ferran-V? How many more must we have, before something is done?

or something to that effect, depending on what the point of the question might be.

Avoidance. Always a good strategy. Don't go outside in the summertime, and you don't have to worry about what goes with sandals.

 

[DaCosta]

*sits in the background with the popcorn*

 

[HareBrain]

which looks better but is incorrect and makes me itch,

Why is it incorrect? Given that it's correct to use it with single letters or numbers? (See post#2 and below)

(I appreciate that Ferran-V is not a single letter, but I think this V would count as one in this case, for this purpose. I wonder, actually, if this has ever come up before, EVER???!?!??)

From Oxford Dictionaries online:

It's very important to remember this grammatical rule.

There are one or two cases in which it is acceptable to use an apostrophe to form a plural, purely for the sake of clarity:

you can use an apostrophe to show the plurals of single letters:

I've dotted the i's and crossed the t's.

Find all the p's in appear.

you can use an apostrophe to show the plurals of single numbers:

Find all the number 7’s.



These are the only cases in which it is generally considered acceptable to use an apostrophe to form plurals: remember that an apostrophe should never be used to form the plural of ordinary nouns, names, abbreviations, or numerical dates.

(note the last paragraph, Bowler, Ph.D. )

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Why is it incorrect? Given that it's correct to use it with single letters or numbers? (See post#2 and below)

(I appreciate that Ferran-V is not a single letter, but I think this V would count as one in this case, for this purpose. I wonder, actually, if this has ever come up before, EVER???!?!??)

Oh, yes, I'm a trailblazer...

Dusty, I know I could have changed it round, but where's the fun in not asking such an essential need-to-know question?

Takes some of DaCosta's popcorn.

 

[TheDustyZebra]

Why is it incorrect? Given that it's correct to use it with single letters or numbers?

Perhaps I should have said, "I think of it as incorrect", since I can't really say why. Even my lovely AP Style manual is pretty sanguine about the whole thing.

I try to make myself use the apostrophe with single letters, and not with numbers or multiple letters, which is what I consider to be correct (as does AP), but I do have some reflexive usages that simply want to be. And the case could be made either way, regarding whether this is a single letter or multiple ones. So I say go for it!

Of course, the case could also be made that the V in this case is a number.

 

[Bowler1]

Just because 7's looks like V, if you turn it around a bit, doesn't mean the ' stays. Sorry... I couldn't resist.

The real question being, does the V stand alone against the world, or does the V hang around in a menacing gang? I would say the - is a linking the V to the rest of the word. I assume there might be Ferran-As and Ferran-Bs, and other satellites with capital letters.

As this is an imaginary system from the depths of Springs brain, I've put myself at her mercy.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Are you trying to say I made everything up?

It's Ferran-five in my mind, but as I discovered at Brighton that counts for nothing - even Kare was pronounced three different ways.

 

[AMB]

Well, my brain automatically translated the V so that I read "Ferran-Five's". It then shut down and refused to start up again for several minutes.

 

[TheDustyZebra]

I can only come up with two different ways for Kare, without sending him to a foreign country. I seem to use both of them interchangeably, and I have no idea which one you intended.

 

[Ursa major]

Perhaps I should have said, "I think of it as incorrect", since I can't really say why.

Because it's horrible.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I can only come up with two different ways for Kare, without sending him to a foreign country. I seem to use both of them interchangeably, and I have no idea which one you intended.

Well you see there's two normal ways and then the Ulster pronounciation...

It's care, as in I care for you, in a posh Belfast accent with a nice roll of the R. Obviously...