The Shaming of Adults who are YA Readers/Fans

[Brian G Turner]

A long time ago, I used to mentally berate other writers' bad writing habits like repeats and over-use of adverbs or weak adjectives, etc., but general readers don't notice these things. They just get on with it. And with that in mind, my attitude has significantly altered. I don't care what other writers do anymore, I just focus on my own prose, because that's the only writing I can influence.

Very good sentiments, and welcome to the chrons forums, Kev Heritage.

 

[S Blake-Smy]

I don't read Slate anyway, so... there's that.

On the topic of YA fiction, I don't like the title, and don't think it is descriptive enough to even constitute a 'genre'. When I see a bookstore with a 'YA section' I can't help but sigh a little to myself. As is stated by others in this thread, "a good book, is a good book" and to me that is the end of it; there are enough genres and sub-genres as it is without trying to 'create a new market' with a label that isn't needed.

(Although, I will say that I see a lot of inter-generational 'dispute' in recent years; Millennials blaming Baby-boomers for the financial situation, and boomers saying Millennials are spoiled and self involved -- us Gen-x's are stuck in the middle -- so maybe there is a call for a label from this younger generation for something to differentiate things that they can say 'are for them'... but what do I know.)

In terms of sex in a book, I flick past it. Putting it into words always comes off as either coy or gratuitous to me; I can't say I've found any examples of middle ground.

I do love a bit of 'Grim-dark' though, so, as they say... "Viva la difference!", each to their own.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

there are enough genres and sub-genres as it is without trying to 'create a new market' with a label that isn't needed.

The term has been in use for a long time, and it's not a new market at all. It's just that there has been a lot more interest lately, and more people are aware of it.

About 25 years ago I noticed that in SFF a lot of books would be published as YA in hardcover (I think to pick up library sales) and then a year or two later for adults when the mass market paperback came out. Patricia McKillip is one author who comes to mind, although now all her books are shelved in the general SFF section in bookstores, but in large libraries with multiple copies you can find them shelved in more than one section. She's not the only author for which this is true. I bet a lot of people read and enjoy YA novels without even knowing it.

 

[S Blake-Smy]

The term has been in use for a long time, and it's not a new market at all. It's just that there has been a lot more interest lately, and more people are aware of it.

'New' is a relative term I suppose. I probably should have been more specific, as I meant in the last decade (which all feels like a recent period of time to me). I had always noticed books that definitely seemed to be aimed toward younger readers -- mainly in that they always seemed to be themed to the interests of that age group or contain mainly protagonists who were also of that age group -- but I never thought of it as being under as 'refined' a marketing strategy as the YA label seems to be now. Maybe that's down to my personal perspective more than anything else

I bet a lot of people read and enjoy YA novels without even knowing it.

And this I can agree with 100%, and also makes me feel that the label is superfluous to a good story (as, arguably all labels are).

I suppose what it boils down to is, I find the label to be slightly condescending and 'ageist', as well as being irrelevant. All in all though, I might add that I am in the camp of people that wouldn't shame anyone for reading them, just would rather they tell me about a 'book that happened to be good' rather than 'this is a really good YA book'.

(Maybe I'm being a snob, I hope not)

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Well, at my age a decade ago doesn't just feel recent, it feels like just yesterday.

But I first encountered "young adult" as a category 40 years ago, which even for me is a long time. It may be even older than that. Almost certainly it is. It's just that with more attention given to YA books more people have become aware of it as a category in the last decade or so. Also, it's been redefined a few times during that period, and has become altogether vaguer and more confusing because not everyone has the same definition, whereas it used to be that teachers, publishers, and librarians were pretty much in agreement on what YA encompassed. If it gets too confusing -- and it might well -- then it will cease to be a useful term. Right now I think it still has its uses for publishers, booksellers, and librarians. For readers, probably not so much.

 

[Judderman]

Knowing Harry Potter was a kid's book didn't stop it being read by millions of adults, although I remember they were redesigned with more adult-looking covers so that those reading them on the London Tube didn't feel so embarrassed!

A couple of people I spoke to who read the versions with the different covers actually thought (or at least said so) that they were an adult version of the books!

I'm sure quite a lot of books in sci-fi and fantasy sections could be called Young Adult.

 

[manephelien]

I'm sure quite a lot of books in sci-fi and fantasy sections could be called Young Adult.

Certainly in terms of no sex, pretty much all of Asimov's production would qualify, with the notable exception of his dirty limericks! Let's face it, most parents who wish to pre-censor what their kids read are mostly worried about graphic sex. My parents weren't, I got the first three books in Jean M. Auel's Earth's Children series for my 15th birthday. The first three books are okay if you like that sort of thing, but after that they get rather repetitive. I got enough of that sort of thing in my teens and early twenties, these days I prefer books without gratuitous sex. I think it's okay to include sex scenes if they advance the story, but if they're there just to shock or titillate the reader, I prefer to avoid it.

Much of Robert A. Heinlein's early work in the 1940s and 1950s was written for juveniles, with very little violence, almost no romance and certainly no sex, graphic or otherwise.

 

[2DaveWixon]

Horses for courses... Whenever I read the Harry Potter books I'm always immersed in the wizarding world from the first word to the last. I also enjoy the nouns and verbs she's invented to describe her world. It has to be said, though, that I found her novel A Casual Vacancy unreadable, much as I like the crime novels she's written as Robert Galbraith.

Proving, perhaps, that there's more to this authoring business than just the words...

 

[russ2]

I agree with you. No more snobbery in the book trade! If you don't like a book move on and let others enjoy their pleasures.

 

[monkeypooper]

I feel no shame but, before digital books, i did have mixed feelings waiting for the children to leave the kids section so, i could look at the books without being tagged a nonce. Always hated the fact the books were segregated into childs and, adults and, i always found the better books in the YA section, which was always in the childs section.

 

[S Blake-Smy]

I feel no shame but, before digital books, i did have mixed feelings waiting for the children to leave the kids section so, i could look at the books without being tagged a nonce. Always hated the fact the books were segregated into childs and, adults and, i always found the better books in the YA section, which was always in the childs section.

Yeah that must have been awkward. I can understand having a separate section for kids books, because of the noise, but (depending on the age range of the young adult selection) why shouldn't the 'YA' be in the adult section.

I made my first step into Tolkien at around 11; so unless the subject matter of the books are obviously juvenile I see no reason why the YA books should be with kids books. It may be a small thing, but at that age I would imagine that some kids would respond well to being treated with a bit more respect -- a little bit like not "sitting at the children's table" at a party any more -- treat someone like an adult... they might act like one?

Plus it would be easier for people like yourself Monkeypooper

 

[Overread]

Thing is it says young adult - it really is quite a meaningless term because it runs from young teenager all the way to actual over 18 adults. In the end it mostly means no gratuitous sex and violence won't be "terribly" graphic; and it probably won't have extreme torture etc.... After that anything goes; we've got novels that are clearly written for younger minds and those which are clearly accessible to adults.

It's a nice safe bracket to work in as it targets the bulk of people who are likely to have the most disposable free time and appeals to such a broad number that its easy to market. But at the end of the day it really tells you nothing much about the book in practical terms.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Thing is it says young adult - it really is quite a meaningless term because it runs from young teenager all the way to actual over 18 adults. In the end it mostly means no gratuitous sex and violence won't be "terribly" graphic; and it probably won't have extreme torture etc.... After that anything goes; we've got novels that are clearly written for younger minds and those which are clearly accessible to adults.

It's a nice safe bracket to work in as it targets the bulk of people who are likely to have the most disposable free time and appeals to such a broad number that its easy to market. But at the end of the day it really tells you nothing much about the book in practical terms.

.

I'm not sure sex and violence are a no-go (I left out gratuitous because preferably they shouldn't be so in any book.) it's the treatment of the themes that makes it YA, and often the genre does have quite dark and hard hitting stuff in it.

 

[Elventine]

To be honest I kind of don't get the "I read YA because there is not violence and sex" reason. I mean there are tones and tones of adult series that have no sex, violence or even a lot of fighting in them. There isn't actually a need to turn to YA to find those kinds of books. In fact there are lot of adult books out there that are lighter, less sex, less violence then some YA titles that are being published.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

.

I'm not sure sex and violence are a no-go (I left out gratuitous because preferably they shouldn't be so in any book.) it's the treatment of the themes that makes it YA, and often the genre does have quite dark and hard hitting stuff in it.

Across the Nightingale Floor was YA when it first came out. That has some of the most gruesome scenes I think I've ever read.

 

[Elventine]

Across the Nightingale Floor was YA when it first came out. That has some of the most gruesome scenes I think I've ever read.

My point exactly!

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

One reason why I'm reading more YA books lately is that they tend to be a lot less expensive, therefore when I am on a YA binge I end up buying more books simply because I don't run out of discretionary (book-buying) funds before I get paid again. When I'm reading more adult SFF I use up that money faster, and reach a point where I have to stop buying books for a while. (Fortunately, I like to reread.)

 

[Stephen Palmer]

Across the Nightingale Floor was YA when it first came out. That has some of the most gruesome scenes I think I've ever read.

Fantastic work. Highly original, I thought.

 

[Stephen Palmer]

Rather odd article in the Guardian.

 

[Overread]

You can say 90% of any genre is rubbish - very easily today with the opening up of the market to self publishing (actually the value could be even higher).

*makes note to read more than the title of the article at some point soon )