Well here's an article by a YA author, saying most of it is rubbish. But I thought the article had some insights. What do you guys think?
Most YA fiction is grown-up fiction in disguise
Most YA fiction is grown-up fiction in disguise
The Shaming of Adults who are YA Readers/Fans
- Thread starter The Bluestocking
- Start date
AnyaKimlin
Confuddled
I agree with that but there was a certain scene involving avians that became very ingrained.
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2008
- Messages
- 8,136
I find this interesting because it's exactly the opposite of what I'd suspect, and that suspicion is what puts me off reading any YA. But then the author says:
Which is exactly what I wouldn't want. So is the author saying that good YA is actually adult fiction disguised as YA in order for it to sell? And does that mean that there can actually be good YA? It would be good to know what her criteria are for a book belonging to the world of adult literature are.
I think some YA work is adult work "in disguise". But it's hard to argue that, say, I Coriander by Sally Gardner, or Philip Reeve's early novels, or The Lie Tree are in disguise. There's a huge variety of tones and textures and styles in YA; more, perhaps, than the Guardian article suggests.
AnyaKimlin
Confuddled
Saying that some YA work is adult work in disguise rather implies that YA is second rate or isn't work aimed at a younger audience.
Agreed. There is a school of thought which suggests we Brits are not terribly good with young people. Other European countries are maybe better at raising children than Brits. I have a Turkish friend in my home town, and his culture (speaking generally here) are notably good with their offspring; not more indulgent, or better able to cope, just more sympathetic. Just a thought, anyway.
You can say 90% of any genre is rubbish - very easily today with the opening up of the market to self publishing (actually the value could be even higher).
*makes note to read more than the title of the article at some point soon)
From my reading of the article yesterday that was the point. Sturgeons law, which the article discusses - was originally used in defence of Science Fiction.
The person who made the statement - Anthony McGowan - had apparently been asked to stir things up and he cited Sturgeons law amongst other things to make a debate about YA. His blog has a response to quite a few accusations that were made afterwards: Why I am a Misogynist make of it what you will (but I recommend you read it fully and not just the title, like the average Gruniand below the line commenter
)Without any explanation of what she considers YA qualities in fiction and what she considers adult qualities, it's hard to conclude anything from the article. I'd be surprised if the works she praises feature middle-aged adults dealing with the messy compromises of marriage and child-rearing, or the existential dread of impending mortality. Presumably they're works that feature young adults facing young adult issues. So I don't know what makes them not YA in her eyes.
I don't think there's any doubt that the massive increase in writers working in the YA genre has been spurred by its commercial appeal. Read the bios of the authors and it's not hard to see a burned out journalist or bored teacher looking to become the next J.K. Rowling or Rick Riordan. That means the genre has attracted more talent, but, like every genre, it's mostly rubbish.
She does raise the interesting question of whether we shouldn't be concerned that books aimed at teens are overwhelmingly written by and for women, at a time when readership among boys is plummeting. But in the literary world of today, it seems you can acknowledge only those biases that are detrimental to young women. Meanwhile, we continue on a trajectory that will soon see reading fiction as a strictly female gendered activity.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2008
- Messages
- 8,136
Frankly, given the way the enlightened end of the internet works, I surprised he hasn't been burned at the stake yet. One proves one's own lack of sin by denouncing it in others, preferably in front of a mob holding torches and pitchforks.
I have to say that - and I am not saying that all YA is like this by a long way - that I'm not sure what extra it brings to the field beyond having young characters. If anything, isn't that a limiting factor in terms of what can be discussed in a novel?* I've seen it said quite often that the appeal of YA dystopias is that they feature young people clashing with the system as teenagers often do, but writ large. That's fine, but what about issues that aren't seen through the eyes of teenagers (and, one inevitably wonders, predominantly teenage girls)? In this way, while I don't condemn anyone for it as such, I do find it slightly odd that an adult would want to read mainly in YA. Leaving aside nostalgia for teenage years, how much of it would be relevant to the reader? Or is it a matter of escapism for older YA readers and relating for the younger ones?
*That said, and leaving aside dystopias and stock urban fantasy, YA does seem to cover some very wide settings. There seems to be less reliance on the standard medieval Europe fantasy and space empires in SF in YA, but I might be wrong about that.
I have to say that - and I am not saying that all YA is like this by a long way - that I'm not sure what extra it brings to the field beyond having young characters. If anything, isn't that a limiting factor in terms of what can be discussed in a novel?* I've seen it said quite often that the appeal of YA dystopias is that they feature young people clashing with the system as teenagers often do, but writ large. That's fine, but what about issues that aren't seen through the eyes of teenagers (and, one inevitably wonders, predominantly teenage girls)? In this way, while I don't condemn anyone for it as such, I do find it slightly odd that an adult would want to read mainly in YA. Leaving aside nostalgia for teenage years, how much of it would be relevant to the reader? Or is it a matter of escapism for older YA readers and relating for the younger ones?
*That said, and leaving aside dystopias and stock urban fantasy, YA does seem to cover some very wide settings. There seems to be less reliance on the standard medieval Europe fantasy and space empires in SF in YA, but I might be wrong about that.
I think there's a big element of truth to this commercial appeal, but also I do think that YA novels have less "waffle" (to use a very general description) in them, i.e. more focus on character and plot. Which I think is a good thing.
Depends what you class as "waffle", I guess, but I was thinking this morning that one of the things I miss in YA is discursions on art, science, politics, philosophy etc (as long as they're relevant to the book in question). I enjoy reading a good writer's in-depth thoughts on stuff.
AnyaKimlin
Confuddled
Alan Garner is YA as is Alex Sanchez.
Yes, and I love his work, but he doesn't do the thing I was talking about.
AnyaKimlin
Confuddled
The Owl Service was a definite discourse on Welsh Legends and not to mention a little feminism thrown in.
And Alex Sanchez wrote The God Box - about an openly gay kid in a bible class in the bible belt. Full of waffle on biblical verses.
A number of the LGBTQA YA books contain waffle.
In terms of the book as a whole, I agree, but there wasn't the kind of dense "mini-essay" you get in some adult fiction. I'm not saying that's a pre-requisite to me enjoying a book, not at all, but I do find them enjoyable once in a while. Umberto Eco kind of stuff.
Well, that's the nice thing about living in a time when so many different kinds of books are available and (mostly) affordable. We don't all like the same sort of books, and many of us like different kinds of books at different times. I don't mean at different ages (though that applies, too), but there are weeks or months when all I want to read is YA, and weeks or months when I turn to books written with adult readers in mind, where the writing is denser, the plotting and characters (possibly) more complex.
I don't have to pledge my allegiance to one or the other, or feel ashamed of one and proud of myself for reading the other.
As to the question if some YA books are written for adults but disguised as YA, the way I would put it is that some books are not solely YA. Just as some books are not solely adult.
I don't have to pledge my allegiance to one or the other, or feel ashamed of one and proud of myself for reading the other.
As to the question if some YA books are written for adults but disguised as YA, the way I would put it is that some books are not solely YA. Just as some books are not solely adult.
This. Definitely. I read from middle grade through to long, complex fantasy epics, and I have no problem switching between them depending on my mood.
Exactly!
& Neil Stephenson!
Classysturgeon
Member
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2016
- Messages
- 16
Genres like this are a pretty modern thing. Many great authors, like Shakespeare or Dickens, wrote their stories for everyone, not specifically "adults" or "teens" or "children." I feel the same way about movies. I never feel bad about enjoying a G or PG-rated film or one intended for children, because movies didn't used to have ratings. I mean, what audience was Casablanca made for? The answer is "everyone."
Similar threads
-
How can you determine if the story is aimed at Young adults or Adults?
- Started by DAgent
- Replies: 6
-
SciFi YA series - Adults can't reproduce send children to space ???
- Started by gky
- Replies: 2
-
-