You Wake Up and Find Yourself back In The 11th Century

[Cthulhu.Science]

Reminds me of that movie Timeline. There's another, Navigator, but I haven't seen it.

I think the ave. life expectancy rate that time was around 30 years.

The movie Timeline is an interesting example. The modern characters who had studied the era fared much better than the ones who did not.
I love the line, "He speaks the Latin of Cicero!" (may be misquoted)

This line says a lot about the medieval character. Apparently he had read enough ancient Latin to make the reference.

 

[Dave]

Not to be too pedantic, but in Timeline the students time-travel to 14th-century France to rescue their Professor. it is much later than the 11th Century we've been discussing so far. They had already studied the era with a view to making the trip at some point, rather than "you wake up and find yourself" there. It wouldn't have been as popular if Crichton had written all the book conversations in Old French, but the locals wouldn't be speaking English, so they'd need to learn Latin before they travelled. They also had clothing and equipment. I just think that the "you wake up" part of this thought exercise makes a huge difference. It would be much more difficult to just survive, never mind to thrive.

 

[sknox]

John Carter did just fine.

 

[Cthulhu.Science]

You don't know how you got there , all you remember is going to sleep and waking up in a back alley in (for the sake of argument) London. All You have are the clothes on you back and whatever happens to be in your pockets.

There is an obvious conflict in the setup. I don't go to sleep with things in pockets. But lets say its an afternoon nap where I haven't taken off my shoes. And lets say I wake up in a relatively clean pile of straw.

How do I know the date or place? Do the specifics matter? I don't think so.

I've done this thought experiment for myself many times. Ultimately, the thought experiment asks this:
How do you deal with the very first person you encounter. Lets say it is a tradesman or servant of some sort going about their business. You've heard snippets of speech in the moments before encountering this person and you can feel confident that you don't know the language.

They will take one look at you and know you are out of place. They stare at you. You back at them. Now what. That's the crux of the exercise.

My answer is to stand up straight, look them in the eye, hold out the palms of my hand and say simply-- "It doesn't matter what I say because you can't understand me anyway." -- with a slight grin of confidence and wait. If they dare speak back, no matter what tone they use simply respond in a calm, confident voice.

They run off and get someone more important and probably the whole neighborhood. I'm the most interesting thing to happen in their three blocks and two alleys since that time something very prosaic happened.

I am an exotic foreigner with a foreign language, foreign clothes, foreign appearance. I am clean and healthy. Nobody wants to cross their betters by doing anything with me but deliver me to their betters. Why am I there? Is that for the peasant to know? How is that their business? Better get rid of me by handing me off to their betters than risk offending an exotic guest that has lost their way. They might get a reward for getting me to the right place. Offending the exotic guest of their liege could result in very, very bad consequences.

And I treat their betters the same way. Pleasant confidence.

From there you get creative. In most societies you don't need to be far up the ladder before your presence on their estate is not a burden to their resources. At that point you need only be mildly entertaining and creative.

If you are in a country that uses an alphabet that you are familiar with impress them by listening to their accent and then reading from a book. Modern English is one of very few languages where the written language is not phonetic. Years ago I did this in Slovakia to amaze my friends. I had no idea what I was saying, but my reading was good enough that they understood me. "Did you learn Slovak last night?"

Once established get ready to be used as trophy to get whatever minor noble an audience a few steps higher than they would normally get. And so on.

This curl up and die attitude of my predecessors simply will not do!

 

[Cthulhu.Science]

Venusian Broon's idea of pretending to be shipwrecked certainly offers the best chance of survival. There are various historical examples of such mysterious arrivals, eg the Green Children of Woolpit, and the woman washed up on the coast of Japan in some sort of round container that sounds like a modern life raft.

Ditch the mobile phone for sure. And thanks to our "nanny state", we British can't even carry decent knives any more- how insane would that seem to the 11th century? Almost all the knowledge and even practical skills possessed by any modern individual would be utterly useless, even if the language was learned quickly. For example, even if knowing the formula for gunpowder gained you royal favour, it would be little use if you couldn't also cast a decent cannon that wouldn't blow up. I reckon archery and fire making would be the most useful skills- you could live off hunting in the forests which then covered most of England. If you wanted to integrate into society, then for men blacksmithing would be about the most useful skill, as techniques and equipment don't seem to have changed that much. For women, midwifery- you'd achieve massive improvements on contemporary survival rates just by washing your hands and boiling your scissors- but to retain your Dark Ages credibility you'd need to recite some special prayers while so doing- let them ascribe your powers to a saint rather than to some eccentric habit like washing.

Two modern skills that everyone learns today that would be exotic and useful -
Scribe, once you learn to trim a quill.
Accountant. Every society has to keep track of their wealth. Any modern person could walk into a warehouse and calculate instantly how many barrels there were when there were 8 rows of 13 each.

But would you need to? As an exotic foreign noble, shipwrecked on these shores, think of the stories you could tell that would be unique and wonderful.

 

[svalbard]

If you know your history set up a betting shop or somehow manage to get close to Harold Godwinsson and give him the lowdown of Hastings.

 

[BAYLOR]

If you know your history set up a betting shop or somehow manage to get close to Harold Godwinsson and give him the lowdown of Hastings.

All Godwinson really had to do was rest his army. Had he done so , William would have lost at Hastings.

 

[svalbard]

All Godwinson really had to do was rest his army. Had he done so , William would have lost at Hastings.

Exactly what I would tell Harold. Have a cup of tea and a kitkat. Chill for a few weeks. Don't worry about the peasants in Suffolk. Easily replaceable. Gather 20k men and roll William back to the sea.

 

[paranoid marvin]

The problem was that after landing, William was already constructing fortifications. The longer Harold left it, the worse it would be for him. Also, if he hadn't gone out to attack the Normans who were murdering his people, he wouldn't have been seen as a worthy king - and rightly so.

What he needed to have done was keep all his forces together. But realistically there was a harvest to be gathered in, and there was a distinct risk of famine if the men hadn't gone back to their fields and waited on the South coast for William (if he ever arrived).

In all honesty, Harold should have beaten William. He was defending, he had the high ground and he was on home turf. Both sides had similar numbers, and were equally adept in their fighting ability. Personally I don't think it was an arrow that did for Harold, I think that he is the one in the Bayeux Tapestry that is being run down by the horseman. It appears that William's cavalry broke through the men guarding the King, and with his death the battle was pretty much ended.

But it is probably for the best that William did win, because England became a much more organised, wealthy and defended country as a result. It's more than likely that if Harold had won, that France would have become more powerful and that England would have been a much easier target.

 

[Cthulhu.Science]

Exactly what I would tell Harold. Have a cup of tea and a kitkat. Chill for a few weeks. Don't worry about the peasants in Suffolk. Easily replaceable. Gather 20k men and roll William back to the sea.

One problem was that Harold's home was near the point of landing. Harold was protecting his family. So, tell Harold to evacuate his family to London before defeating the Norse in the north. Now he has a fewer worries.

 

[svalbard]

One problem was that Harold's home was near the point of landing. Harold was protecting his family. So, tell Harold to evacuate his family to London before defeating the Norse in the north. Now he has a fewer worries.

Thinking about it more I would go further back in time and advise Harold to skip his holiday in Normandy. Have a staycation instead.

 

[Dave]

Apart from the Battle of Hastings and the Crab Nebula Supernova I personally know zilch about the 11th Century. So, it's all very find for all you Early-Middle English history buffs here, but if I suddenly arrive in 1001 then I've got another 50 years to twiddle my thumbs before any of my predictions come true, and sadly, I won't live that long, even if Ii had the benefit of modern medicine. Same goes if I arrived in 1060.

 

[BAYLOR]

Two modern skills that everyone learns today that would be exotic and useful -
Scribe, once you learn to trim a quill.
Accountant. Every society has to keep track of their wealth. Any modern person could walk into a warehouse and calculate instantly how many barrels there were when there were 8 rows of 13 each.

But would you need to? As an exotic foreign noble, shipwrecked on these shores, think of the stories you could tell that would be unique and wonderful.

There is still the problem of the language barrier.

 

[BAYLOR]

Apart from the Battle of Hastings and the Crab Nebula Supernova I personally know zilch about the 11th Century. So, it's all very find for all you Early-Middle English history buffs here, but if I suddenly arrive in 1001 then I've got another 50 years to twiddle my thumbs before any of my predictions come true, and sadly, I won't live that long, even if Ii had the benefit of modern medicine. Same goes if I arrived in 1060.

In that era , getting a simple infection could be deadly.

 

[Cthulhu.Science]

There is still the problem of the language barrier.

You really seem to be looking for the turd in the punch bowl on this one. Most people, finding themselves in a place where they don't know the language, will learn the language, particularly if they have zero contact with anyone that speaks their language.

The curious thing about writing is that it is a very specific skill. While writers of Latin letters may have difficulty learning to write Arabic, the idea here is that the users of this site might find themselves in ancient London where the writing used Latin letters. So the shift is not really extreme. And going from never writing anything to writing is much more extreme than being an expert writer of one language to shifting to a new language.

Secondly, one could promote themselves as taking notes in a secret shorthand where you'd quickly write phonetically so that you could read it back later. Traditionally writing was taught as what we now call Calligraphy. Calligraphy is a very methodical, and beautiful writing style. Go back even 100 years to find countless references to the importance of good penmanship. Modern education teaches methods of writing reasonably fast. A modern person would be able to transcribe a sermon much more quickly and precisely than an 11th century monk. This shorthand could then be relayed to the monk to put into Calligraphy.

 

[Cthulhu.Science]

In that era , getting a simple infection could be deadly.

And we, the transported, would be the only people that knew how to distill alcohol to use as a disinfectant.

 

[BAYLOR]

You really seem to be looking for the turd in the punch bowl on this one. Most people, finding themselves in a place where they don't know the language, will learn the language, particularly if they have zero contact with anyone that speaks their language.

The curious thing about writing is that it is a very specific skill. While writers of Latin letters may have difficulty learning to write Arabic, the idea here is that the users of this site might find themselves in ancient London where the writing used Latin letters. So the shift is not really extreme. And going from never writing anything to writing is much more extreme than being an expert writer of one language to shifting to a new language.

Secondly, one could promote themselves as taking notes in a secret shorthand where you'd quickly write phonetically so that you could read it back later. Traditionally writing was taught as what we now call Calligraphy. Calligraphy is a very methodical, and beautiful writing style. Go back even 100 years to find countless references to the importance of good penmanship. Modern education teaches methods of writing reasonably fast. A modern person would be able to transcribe a sermon much more quickly and precisely than an 11th century monk. This shorthand could then be relayed to the monk to put into Calligraphy.

As a matter of fact , I not looking for any turd in the punch bowl , as you put it. Language , both written and spoken would initially be an issue, you's have be become conversant not only old English but probably other dialogues as well and, fairly quickly.

 

[BAYLOR]

And we, the transported, would be the only people that knew how to distill alcohol to use as a disinfectant.

A very basic thing like that would go a long way in that era and, would be well with the capabilities of the people that era. And the knowledge itself could even provide you with an income. Things like penicillin sociably might be possible too. You might be able to earn a living as a practician of medicine /healer.

 

[Vertigo]

I very much doubt you could make the locals trust your weird and generally very suspiciously magical looking techniques over their religiously approved and/or traditional medicines.

Letters as well as language have shifted and you'd probably struggle to read most written stuff even if you could understand the language.

I really don't think anyone other than an expert on the period would survive very long at all. I really think it's wishful thinking to believe otherwise.

 

[Dave]

you'd probably struggle to read most written stuff even if you could understand the language.

Even handwritten documents from the 17th Century are difficult to read. I've attempted to transcribe some Civil War miltary call-up rolls myself for purposes of family history. Apart from the different shape of letters (s looks like f), ink smudging, poor quality paper and language problems, you don't even have any consistency on spelling. But, given enough time, with experience you could learn to read them in the 11th Century..

My point is that would you even get sufficent time to do this. You "wake up and arrive" with only what you have on your person. Who is going to give you access to these documents and why? How are you going to feed yourself while you prove your worth? You need to be an instant success really, but this is a time when nothing happens fast, most especially communications.