Are the Daleks still a credible Enemy Anymore ?
- Thread starter BAYLOR
- Start date
If I were allowed to take over Doctor Who, I would give them something of an update. The current designs are still too close to the original - toilet plunger and problems with stairs* always come to mind when I see them. 
*Yes, they can negotiate stairs. But still slow them down considerably.
*Yes, they can negotiate stairs. But still slow them down considerably.
If I were allowed to take over Doctor Who, I would give them something of an update. The current designs are still too close to the original - toilet plunger and problems with stairs* always come to mind when I see them.
*Yes, they can negotiate stairs. But still slow them down considerably.
What good is an enemy that you keep on defeating? The Daleks need to come away with something other then absolute defeat. Like they did in Victory of the Daleks.
Have to say I am a bit fed up with Daleks, think they use them too much but my sister took her three kids to GEEKS Doncaster Comic Con today,she posted a video of her ten year old stood next to a Dalek, he had a nervous smile on his face trying to look cool. Then the dalek moved and spoke the squeal of terror as he ran away was priceless.
Looks like they are still a credible foe to kids.
Looks like they are still a credible foe to kids.
AnyaKimlin
Confuddled
Do they use them too much - Yes. However, they are always going to be a credible threat because they are the Daleks.
Start tinkering with their design and they will lose the only credibility they have - their image. I actually think the rainbow daleks did more to destroy them as characters than anything else. They do need much better story lines though. I'd like to see a dalek rebellion that the doctor ends up aiding them with.
Start tinkering with their design and they will lose the only credibility they have - their image. I actually think the rainbow daleks did more to destroy them as characters than anything else. They do need much better story lines though. I'd like to see a dalek rebellion that the doctor ends up aiding them with.
They've become bowling pins for the doctor to knock over.
Victory of the Daleks though far from a perfect , marked a welcome change to this stae of affairs.
AnyaKimlin
Confuddled
Didn't watch it due to the annoyance of Amy Pond. It's the only period of Dr Who I can't watch. Maybe the Doctor should have one as a companion
Didn't watch it due to the annoyance of Amy Pond. It's the only period of Dr Who I can't watch. Maybe the Doctor should have one as a companion
But it had Winston Churchill.
AnyaKimlin
Confuddled
But it had Winston Churchill.
Grandad hated him
Seriously nothing makes up for the reject Cbeebies presenter, Amy Pond. To me she felt like a real step back in terms of companion. She was everything I thought we moved on from with Ace.All I know about the daleks is that they looked plain daft.
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Grandad hated him
All I know about the daleks is that they looked plain daft.
I liked Amy and Rose Tyler.
I never quite believe the Daleks are a threat, because they always have the Doctor in their sights and then let him talk them out of killing him. Almost any episode, they could simply shoot him and be done with it, but he opens his mouth and they start having doubts. They don't have much credibility, there.
All alien invasion scenarios are more real when the enemy is on the ground in the English Home Counties. Having the Daleks defeated in space or some distant planet cannot compete with them actually landing on Earth. Especially if you have scenes of London landmarks (or of Cardiff dressed to look like London) with Daleks in control. You avoid the stair-climbing weakness by having Robomen or Ogrons as their brute force. You put the Daleks inside a school like Coal Hill to really frighten the children because that is a situation they are familiar with.
However, I agree that they have been used too much recently (often several times within a season when I had to wait at least biennially for them to appear.) And I agree that the 'Teletubbie' Daleks were a mistake. The Imperial Daleks kicked butt!
However, I agree that they have been used too much recently (often several times within a season when I had to wait at least biennially for them to appear.) And I agree that the 'Teletubbie' Daleks were a mistake. The Imperial Daleks kicked butt!
Harpo
Getting away with it
The thing about the Daleks that is most frightening is, and always was, is their simplicity whilst at the same time being totally other.
Their bodies are not humanoid or reptilian or in any way like any animal we know.
Its not a regular shape, not sherical or cylindrical or square or even really like a proper pepperpot.
Their voices carry no emotion except when they die (going Aaarrrggh) or get louder.
They have only one eye, which means they can stare at you twice as well as someone with two eyes.
They have two arms, one of which can do nothing but exterminate you, and the other which can do nothing but push you about, or grab hold of you with a sucker like grip, or originally just push great big red buttons.
What's not to be afraid of.
Mind you, you're all correct! Most of the storylines are getting pretty lame.
Their bodies are not humanoid or reptilian or in any way like any animal we know.
Its not a regular shape, not sherical or cylindrical or square or even really like a proper pepperpot.
Their voices carry no emotion except when they die (going Aaarrrggh) or get louder.
They have only one eye, which means they can stare at you twice as well as someone with two eyes.
They have two arms, one of which can do nothing but exterminate you, and the other which can do nothing but push you about, or grab hold of you with a sucker like grip, or originally just push great big red buttons.
What's not to be afraid of.
Mind you, you're all correct! Most of the storylines are getting pretty lame.
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I have such fond memories of the Daleks as the Doctor's supreme enemy that I hate to say it, but it is true. The Daleks are a non-entity now. In fact all of the Doctor's 'enemies' are so pathetic it really make me wonder if the show should continue.
The problem stems, I think, from the single one hour episode format. We used to get a cliffhanger each week so our imaginations were allowed to ferment about what might happen. Now everything is easily wrapped up in the last five minutes of each episode without ever achieving any sense of foreboding or danger.
The problem stems, I think, from the single one hour episode format. We used to get a cliffhanger each week so our imaginations were allowed to ferment about what might happen. Now everything is easily wrapped up in the last five minutes of each episode without ever achieving any sense of foreboding or danger.
Harpo
Getting away with it
I preferred the old multi-episode stories
To answer the question, I'd have to say: Yes... but... only in so much as any enemy is a credible threat given a juicy storyline.
Frankly, what the Daleks as a whole need to do is disappear into the background for a while and get back to conquering places where the Doctor isn't, rather than always butting into him. They've lost any sense of mystery and therefore threat because they're just too well known. It's hard to be genuinely threatened by something you've seen scores of times already, defeated or otherwise.
The Renegade vs Imperial Daleks was something that worked well, because there you (the viewer) were very much caught between the two clashing forces. It was no longer as simple as "the Doctor vs the bad guys", it was different and risky.
In the new series, mostly the Daleks have just been the obvious bad guy, and were usually dealt with the somewhat annoyingly obligatory reset button (the Daleks vs Cybermen part was notable for that!) The ones that have been good have been when it's a lone Dalek and they've actually had to deal with the Dalek as a 'person', or when their motivations have been shrouded in mystery.
Example, the Churchill's Daleks one was an interesting idea that kept us at least somewhat guessing at what was going on. The problem was, the decent plotting was forgotten in the abject silliness of it's resolution. (and the fact that the look of the new Daleks was generally hated but that's for another discussion)
What we need are genuine 'New Paradigm' Daleks, not just some new look, but a different way of thinking. They're supposed to be geniuses. Every individual Dalek is supposed to be a genius. But they're not any more, they're just grunts in near-impregnable armour with attitude problems and fancy weapons.
We need Daleks that PLAN and scheme, not just ones that go in to conquer and blow stuff up. Then they'll be a threat again.
(Side-note, the ideas seeded last season, with them literally taking over organics, Borg-style, may be a good start... I remain on the fence as to whether that was the precursor to a much longer game with the Daleks ending up surreptitiously in control of lots of things. We can hope!)
Frankly, what the Daleks as a whole need to do is disappear into the background for a while and get back to conquering places where the Doctor isn't, rather than always butting into him. They've lost any sense of mystery and therefore threat because they're just too well known. It's hard to be genuinely threatened by something you've seen scores of times already, defeated or otherwise.
The Renegade vs Imperial Daleks was something that worked well, because there you (the viewer) were very much caught between the two clashing forces. It was no longer as simple as "the Doctor vs the bad guys", it was different and risky.
In the new series, mostly the Daleks have just been the obvious bad guy, and were usually dealt with the somewhat annoyingly obligatory reset button (the Daleks vs Cybermen part was notable for that!) The ones that have been good have been when it's a lone Dalek and they've actually had to deal with the Dalek as a 'person', or when their motivations have been shrouded in mystery.
Example, the Churchill's Daleks one was an interesting idea that kept us at least somewhat guessing at what was going on. The problem was, the decent plotting was forgotten in the abject silliness of it's resolution. (and the fact that the look of the new Daleks was generally hated
but that's for another discussion)What we need are genuine 'New Paradigm' Daleks, not just some new look, but a different way of thinking. They're supposed to be geniuses. Every individual Dalek is supposed to be a genius. But they're not any more, they're just grunts in near-impregnable armour with attitude problems and fancy weapons.
We need Daleks that PLAN and scheme, not just ones that go in to conquer and blow stuff up. Then they'll be a threat again.
(Side-note, the ideas seeded last season, with them literally taking over organics, Borg-style, may be a good start... I remain on the fence as to whether that was the precursor to a much longer game with the Daleks ending up surreptitiously in control of lots of things. We can hope!)
I don't think it's that they're no longer credible, it's that they're over-used - familiarity breeds contempt and all that. Which would explain why they're still terrifying to kids - youngsters haven't encountered them enough times yet to have had enough of them. To me it kind of feels like the writers are a bit 'What do we do here? Oh, I know, let's just wheel out the daleks again.'
They need to be taken out of the picture for a nice long time and brought back when least expected. The first encounter with a dalek in New Who (I think with Rose and Christopher Ecclestone's Dr) was scary because it was so shocking, it simply shouldn't have been possible because the daleks were meant to have been totally wiped out. It worked brilliantly. And I say that as someone who couldn't stand CE's Dr. Since then, though, it's just become expected that the daleks will turn up and it's all a bit dull.
They need to be taken out of the picture for a nice long time and brought back when least expected. The first encounter with a dalek in New Who (I think with Rose and Christopher Ecclestone's Dr) was scary because it was so shocking, it simply shouldn't have been possible because the daleks were meant to have been totally wiped out. It worked brilliantly. And I say that as someone who couldn't stand CE's Dr. Since then, though, it's just become expected that the daleks will turn up and it's all a bit dull.
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