34.06: The Caretaker

Dave: I hadn't considered the story written before the actor employed possibility. However, anyone with have a brain cell should have seen the potential problems at the first reading. Either they saw it and thought - Oh sod it, or they didn't and... well institutionalised springs to mind.

I still think the shoplifting class is worse though. Again the script may have come first but....

Janitor is the word Dusty.
 
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Shoplifting class was definitely an eyebrow-raiser! Although she did introduce herself to him as "disruptive influence", so it's not an open-and-shut case for racism.
 
Dave: I hadn't considered the story written before the actor employed possibility. However, anyone with have a brain cell should have seen the potential problems at the first reading. Either they saw it and thought - Oh sod it, or they didn't and... well institutionalised springs to mind.

I still think the shoplifting class is worse though. Again the script may have come first but....
'Institutional racism' is certainly how it would be classified. And who would believe that within the BBC? Funny how the BBC News uses the term frequently against the Met Police, the NHS, and the FA, but doesn't think it is itself. And yet it is a bigger dinosaur that all of those!
 
I think I'll wait until the end of this series to make my mind up on this, if for no other reason than it seems odd to employ a black actor at all if the script takes pot shots at the character he's playing based on the show's (or BBC Drama's) antagonism to his ethnicity. That would suggest more than simply institutional racism, but some sort of agenda.

And more than a bit of stupidity. After all, if you're a racist, why not simply employ an actor who isn't black? And if you do employ a black actor, why make his character a hero, and a person with whom the audience can sympathise, and someone who is clever enough to teach maths? It doesn't make sense.

Anyway, I'd like to believe that there's a point to it all, one that isn't simply employing actors so that you can insult them.
 
I feel obliged to point out the this Doctor is bitchy and snarky to everyone. The fact that it's being over-examined in relation to a black character just shows how sensitive people are to the possibility, of prejudice rather than the actuality of whether it's there.

In the last few episodes, from brief memory (I've only seen each of them once after all ;P) he's belittled Clara (his best friend, I might add) as old, fat, and unattractive in entirely jocular manner.
He's picked on other soldiers (White. Female), and has in turn been highly resistant to the suggestion that he himself is a hero, fighter, soldier (or Dalek ;P) when that is pointed out to him. He was also dismissive and brusque towards Psi last week (and actually quite happy that he's an augmented human, seemingly finding them a better prospect than a 'normal' human) enough so that Psi quite openly told Clara she shouldn't trust him.

He is that abrasive... to everyone. He makes absolutely no secret that he views soldiers (particularly ones that just obey orders) as a very bad thing. He's mean to everyone. He makes jokes at other peoples expense, and picks on everyone quite equally. And I suspect he appreciates the few people that actually stand up to him as the strong people they are that are worthy of respect, namely Clara. (Edit: And now Danny Pink as well, I suspect)

Why exactly do people feel the need to fixate on just one of those victims and pick that out as a special, rather than seeing that it is just one of many examples treated equally badly?
 
I feel obliged to point out the this Doctor is bitchy and snarky to everyone. The fact that it's being over-examined in relation to a black character just shows how sensitive people are to the possibility, of prejudice rather than the actuality of whether it's there.

Hear! hear! The 'back to shoplifting class' line would work whatever the actresses' skin colour.

But let's not forget that Doctor Who is really at its heart one hell of a racist show. ALL Daleks are evil? ALL Sontarans are militaristic totalitarians? - apart from the token Step 'n' Fetchit comedy Sontaran who hangs out with the lesbian detectives.

Racism is the bread and butter of Doctor Who!
 
I feel obliged to point out the this Doctor is bitchy and snarky to everyone. The fact that it's being over-examined in relation to a black character just shows how sensitive people are to the possibility, of prejudice rather than the actuality of whether it's there.

In the last few episodes, from brief memory (I've only seen each of them once after all ;P) he's belittled Clara (his best friend, I might add) as old, fat, and unattractive in entirely jocular manner.
He's picked on other soldiers (White. Female), and has in turn been highly resistant to the suggestion that he himself is a hero, fighter, soldier (or Dalek ;P) when that is pointed out to him. He was also dismissive and brusque towards Psi last week (and actually quite happy that he's an augmented human, seemingly finding them a better prospect than a 'normal' human) enough so that Psi quite openly told Clara she shouldn't trust him.

He is that abrasive... to everyone. He makes absolutely no secret that he views soldiers (particularly ones that just obey orders) as a very bad thing. He's mean to everyone. He makes jokes at other peoples expense, and picks on everyone quite equally. And I suspect he appreciates the few people that actually stand up to him as the strong people they are that are worthy of respect, namely Clara. (Edit: And now Danny Pink as well, I suspect)

Why exactly do people feel the need to fixate on just one of those victims and pick that out as a special, rather than seeing that it is just one of many examples treated equally badly?
I'm not fixated - whatever you mean by that. The discussion concerned the boyfriends of 'Companions' not just one character. There does appear to be a pattern that is beyond mere coincidence, but maybe that is all it is.
 
I'm not fixated - whatever you mean by that. The discussion concerned the boyfriends of 'Companions' not just one character. There does appear to be a pattern that is beyond mere coincidence, but maybe that is all it is.

Is maybe the pattern that the show uses black actors and treats them like everyone else?

Ecclestone's Doctor was rude to Jack when he saw the attraction between Rose and Jack. This Doctor is more rude to everyone.
 
Is maybe the pattern that the show uses black actors and treats them like everyone else?
That's the pattern I see! Actual equality.

Rory wasn't so much treated 'badly' by the Doctor I thought, just viewed with a small amount of disdain. Which, to be honest, was pretty much how Amy treated him to start with as well...
 
Hmm, I feel like this convo is all my fault somehow. Just going to repeat myself to say that I never said the Doctor was racist, just that the writing was odd (since Pink's treatment had parallels to Mickeys treatment as I noted in my other post). Also I have an incomplete knowledge of the series so I wouldn't know about the Ninth Doctor and his reaction to Jack Harkness (haven't got to those episodes yet :D).
 
Hmm, I feel like this convo is all my fault somehow. Just going to repeat myself to say that I never said the Doctor was racist, just that the writing was odd (since Pink's treatment had parallels to Mickeys treatment as I noted in my other post). Also I have an incomplete knowledge of the series so I wouldn't know about the Ninth Doctor and his reaction to Jack Harkness (haven't got to those episodes yet :D).

:) Different doctor so the treatment is slightly different but he isn't particularly nice to anyone his companion flirts with or is involved with. Also Jack is more confident so gives as good as he gets but still...
 
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Interestingly, going way back, the last time I remember (in the old series) a disapproval towards someone showing an interest in a companion, it was with the seventh Doctor, when Ace was expressing an interest in (you guessed it...) a soldier stationed at the Coal Hill School (small world...) during Remembrance of the Daleks.

He turned out to be a traitor.

The dislike of soldiers is actually something with quite a lot more history to it than they make obvious :) I seem to remember even Tom Baker showing a fair amount of disdain for soldiers in general, and almost all of them have shown a distinct dislike of firearms.

The fact that the Doctor became what he hated (the whole War Doctor thing) I suspect is the main thread driving the lurking background of this season, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if 'heaven' turned out to be all the people that had died purely because of his action or inaction come the end of the season.
'Missy' has expressed fondness for him, perhaps that's because he inadvertently sends her so many people?...
 
I nearly brought up Sylvester McCoy but wasn't sure how much of it was a false memory. Plus his doctor treated everyone with disdain and as though they were idiots.
 
Plus his doctor treated everyone with disdain and as though they were idiots.
Which was what I originally meant by:
He seems to have developed as a character now, and while it may not be one everyone likes, it is actually closer to the first Doctor than the others, with a bit of the second Doctor thrown in.
Way back then, everyone was beneath him, and Capaldi is channeling that. Hartnell was so irascible and eccentric that they worried children wouldn't warm to him, and he has always had an "opposition to conquest," and had pacifist and anti-establishment attitudes.
 
Mm.

Well, we'll see soon enough. It appears we are going to be seeing quite a bit of the characters in episodes to come.

As for not liking firearms and soldiers. I forgot to mention, in my previous appreciations of the series, the development regarding the 'screwdriver'.

Apparently it has now advanced to pocket flame-thrower come Splogwandian phase blaster. Pretty soon he'll be humping it round in a shoulder holster and Clara will be reduced to carrying his RPGs in her handbag.

Is there no limit to the imagination the scriptwriters lack.

I can't help thinking of all those situations in previous episodes where having such features built into the thing would have ended the episode in the first three minutes.

"How are we going to get in Doctor?"

"Oh, no problem Clara, I'll just blast a way through with my trusty screwdriver."

"Couldn't you use it to take of the control panel and rig the switch?"

"I could Clara, but thermic lance feature makes such a nice hole in the door."

 
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It already had the squareness gun feature in the library, so it may well have done flamethrowers already.

I can't remember it doing much more than unscrewing things back in the early episodes, usually one screw at a time, and very slowly, while Patrick Troughton wore an expresson of pained concentration. (But didn't he always?)

But in the 5Oth, they say that it's always been essentially the same screwdriver, even able to run complex programs that continue across it's own regenerations (??!?)
 
The answer is obvious, given that it has a lot of software in it: the screwdriver needed to be rebooted (which finally happened in 2005...).



:rolleyes:
 

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