Are we too precious about writing?

[Jo Zebedee]

slightly a rant here, sorry. I've been reading lots of articles here and elsewhere about writing and when you should start and what skills you need and how to be successful and what mental attributes you need and what sacrifices are needed to become one.

It's like we've taken writing as a career choice and made it something special. Almost mythical. That it's somehow different.

I'm not sure it is. It's just another career with a set of skills needed to succeed, most of which are the same set of skills you need in any career where you want to perform at the highest level (and I will accept to make any money you need to be writing and hitting the market, at a good level.)

Am I alone in this? Because it's becoming an obsession. Everytime I see one of the threads about what makes a writer, reasons you shouldn't be one etc, I'm replacing writer with a different occupation and, mostly, the message isn't changing much. Are we taking it all a bit serious? Is there a danger - whisper it - of buying into a mythology that we're special snowflakes for being writers? Or did I just wake up grumpy?

 

[Sapheron]

I think a lot of the qualities of a successful writer do, as you say, apply to a lot of jobs. I imagine a site devoted to people who are in turn devoted to becoming astronauts would be even more in awe of those who'd already made it than we are of authors. On the other hand, a site for people who want to work in McDonalds would have a far less 'cult-like' following. It's all in the degree of difficulty. Becoming a successful author is hard, by the standards of possible careers. Far from the hardest, but hard nonetheless. As a result, and especially among those of us who are paranoid, melodramatic, or simply insane (most people seem to end up in one or more of those categories around here), the mythical career we all follow in our dreams is indeed a big deal.

As for the people around here who have already become authors... well I guess the stuggle of becoming so made them even more paranoid, melodramatic and insane than the rest of us. Or perhaps they were already. Maybe that's the true secret to their success?

 

[Droflet]

It's an occupational risk. At the end of the day it's up to the individual to make their choices.

 

[chopper]

my own take on it is that there does seem to be a subset of people who are determined to quantify exactly what makes a bestselling writer, to do it exactly that way, as if there's a shortcut to the Fields of Rothfuss. they treat the advice and formulas with more reverence than they treat their own writing, perhaps because it's easier to believe that one of these magic formulas will work than it is it sit down and write the damned book.

your mileage may vary, but you can't get there from here...

 

[HareBrain]

I'm not sure there are many careers where people put in hundreds of hours of training for a market that's many, many times over-supplied, and where even moderate success will get you an hourly rate that's much closer to zero than to the minimum wage. And I think the line between "job" and "hobby" or "art" is too blurred to compare it to most other careers.

To me, "career" is what I'd like to happen with the writing, it's not the writing itself. That differentiates it from other careers I can think of, including my past one.

 

[Nick B]

I've always felt that many people try to make it seem like an impossible mountain to climb. There is some truth - long unsociable hours, a mountain of learning to do, utterly thankless, hard work and incredibly low paid.
So it's just like my rl job then.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I'm not sure there are many careers where people put in hundreds of hours of training for a market that's many, many times over-supplied, and where even moderate success will get you an hourly rate that's much closer to zero than to the minimum wage. And I think the line between "job" and "hobby" or "art" is too blurred to compare it to most other careers.

To me, "career" is what I'd like to happen with the writing, it's not the writing itself. That differentiates it from other careers I can think of, including my past one.

But how is that any different from any of the creative lines of work? I studied drama - your words mirror exactly what we were told about a career in it? And, also - if we wanted to make money at writing we could do technical stuff, write articles for mags etc. Most pro writers do that sort of thing, not novels. Is it the difference between the aspiration of being a novelist or a writer per se. Are we, as you say, chasing something that isn't a career but a lifestyle choice. If it was just making money from writing there are other options....?

 

[HareBrain]

But how is that any different from any of the creative lines of work?

It isn't. But I don't know many artists or musicians who think of themselves as having a "career" in it, either. They exhibit in local art shows, or they play in pub bands. With their sensible hat on, it's a hobby that brings in a bit of money. They might dream of larger success, but I don't think having a daydream of success constitutes being on a career path. (But maybe we're thinking of "career" differently.)

 

[Kerrybuchanan]

I don't think it's just us (by 'us' I mean aspiring writers) who make the whole writing thing precious. The general public, readers and non-readers alike, seem to glorify writers in a very much scaled-down version of the way they see footballers and celebrities. When I say in conversation that I have written a novel, although I am quite clear that it hasn't been published, many people still seem incredibly in awe of this fact. To me it was just something I had to do before the darned story drove me completely insane.

People seem to see a sort of magic in writers. Maybe it is really there, but if so I think it skipped me because I don't feel magic, just very, very ordinary. The reaction I get disturbs me slightly so I tend not to say it as much now and if asked why I spend so much time tapping away at the laptop I just shrug and say I like messing with short stories. Which also happens to be true, but only the tip of the iceberg.

Apologies for rambling not once but twice this morning. Sleep deprivation is doing the typing, bypassing my brain, I think. Or not, as the case may be. Thinking, that is.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

It isn't. But I don't know many artists or musicians who think of themselves as having a "career" in it, either. They exhibit in local art shows, or they play in pub bands. With their sensible hat on, it's a hobby that brings in a bit of money. They might dream of larger success, but I don't think having a daydream of success constitutes being on a career path. (But maybe we're thinking of "career" differently.)

Well, no actually. The actors I know who have made it - and there are quite a few, I was overshadowed by serious talent in my year - did it as a career. They jobbed, they took whatever roles they could get, they worked their way up. Similarly, artists - the ones I know making money from it put in the hours. Others I know who want a hobby to bring in some money do what you say - the shows etc and it's a hobby.

But maybe it does come down to what we want and how much we're prepared to drive to support it in ourselves. My career may not be the same as anyone else's (and I do appreciate I can be scarily driven about such matters.)

Kerry, I think there is truth in that. I've had more interest from people for a few thousand words in print, and for having a book coming out, that I've had for setting up a business and building it to a sustainable livelihood, singlehandely, for a decade. One is, dare I say it, dull and lots of people do it. One sounds more exotic and fewer people achieve it. There may be something in that paradigm - but both took a similar amount of drive and focus.

 

[Toby Frost]

Is there a danger - whisper it - of buying into a mythology that we're special snowflakes for being writers?

In short, yes.

In my opinion, there is far too much stuff around - not advice so much as a kind of background radiation - that treats writing as more or less performing magic. "You know you are a writer when..." - that sort of thing. Yes, it's very good when it works, and yes, sometimes the process is rather mysterious (I have a personal dislike of the "my characters tell me the story" sort of thing, but I concede that opinions vary here), but most of it is craft rather than art, and persistance as much as joyous inspiration.

It's also very easy to be a writer: you just say that you are. I think we make too much of "being a writer" and not enough of "how to write". The fact is that actual writing is not only tricky, but it requires a lot of unglamorous typing, most of which isn't spent in a Zen state of inspiration. The vast majority of most books is just describing what someone did, said or saw as best as possible, and there are so many ways of doing it that writing articles all should come with a disclaimer saying "this may not apply to you". And then there are the calculations of "Will anyone buy this?" that come into the equation, and they really aren't magical at all.

Whenever I get too "into" writing, I always remember a comedy called Garth Marenghi's Darkplace, in which a pretentious horror writer described himself as a "Dreamweaver", before reading out paragraphs that contained almost no words except "blood" and "maggots".

 

[Brian G Turner]

It's just another career with a set of skills needed to succeed

Indeed. The trouble is, being a fiction writer may be seen as "easy" because all you have to do is write words, and anyone can do that, right?

This perception is perhaps compounded when early attempts at creative are encouraged, and media stories about writers are always about their successes. The idea that creative writing = path to millions is made to look normative, if only you'd keep at it.

My own experience is that trying to be a novelist with any seriousness is equivalent to doing a Bachelors and Master's degree concurrently - that you have to be prepared to learn as much about the technicalities of language and the structure of storytelling and characterisation as possible. And then be able to take hard criticism on how to improve. And that's it's never about ideas, but about learning to communicate in a very specialised way.

I also have strong interests in music and drama, and would like to do both seriously at some point. However, attempting to succeed in any discipline takes such a huge amount of commitment that I need to remain focused on just one for the time being, else become over-stretched - especially with a family and business also requiring my time.

 

[Venusian Broon]

It's like we've taken writing as a career choice and made it something special. Almost mythical. That it's somehow different.

I can only speak for myself. The craft of writing is different for me. All aspects of it (so far) have given me a joy that modelling discounted free cash flow models, picking out bugs in commercial software or just trying to sell a service to a customer have never done .

So yes, somehow, it's different. (But purely from my subjective standpoint)

Are we taking it all a bit serious? Is there a danger - whisper it - of buying into a mythology that we're special snowflakes for being writers? Or did I just wake up grumpy?

However, this idea is completely alien to me . There are some special snowflakes who are brilliant writers (definitely not me!)- but even they will have had to put the years of graft in learning the craft. It helps I suppose that in the circle of friends, family and people that I talk to regularly, few give a rats ar*e about being a writer! It keeps me grounded.

It's also very easy to be a writer: you just say that you are.

I've very strict with myself - if anyone were to ask right now I will say I'm an aspiring writer. Only if I ever publish something and sell a reasonable number of books or a handful of short stories in publications will I ever describe myself as a writer. In fact before I got into the daily routine of writing I did actually describe myself as 'aspiring to be an aspiring writer'.

 

[Nick B]

It helps I suppose that in the circle of friends, family and people that I talk to regularly, few give a rats ar*e about being a writer! It keeps me grounded.



I've very strict with myself - if anyone were to ask right now I will say I'm an aspiring writer.

A thousand times this for the first bit. Pretty much no-one believes in me in regards to writing. It's a hobby, a daydream. I find it incredibly annoying, on bad days its demoralizing. My dedications will read -

I would love to be able to thank my wife and family for supporting me me and making this possible - however, I can't because not a one of them believed I could do it. I still love them anyway.

It is a damn battle to make time to work on writing. The only people who believe, and take it seriously are my co-writer and lifelong friend Darren, and the few who have actualy read our work.

But no, I do not call myself an aspiring writer. I was an aspiring writer before I began, maybe in the first faltering months. Now, I am a writer. I write, a lot, when I'm not writing, I'm thinking about the stories I am writing.
I will not think or refer to myself as an author until I am published. But I am a writer. I write, therefore I am a writer. To think otherwise is to sell yourself short.

 

[Venusian Broon]

I will not think or refer to myself as an author until I am published. But I am a writer. I write, therefore I am a writer. To think otherwise is to sell yourself short.

It's just a difference in nomenclature - your writer is my aspiring writer, your author is my writer.

I'm extremely proud to be an aspiring writer.

I have once (without thinking) responded to someone who asked what I did and I said writer - to which he replied "oh what books have you published?" whereupon I had to tell him I had none. He gave me that strange 'oh right, so really you don't do anything then' look . I will stick to the facts M'lud!

 

[Stephen Palmer]

You open yourself up to both ridicule and delight being an author in a way that doesn't happen if you decide to become a road sweeper

 

[Stephen Palmer]

I've very strict with myself - if anyone were to ask right now I will say I'm an aspiring writer. Only if I ever publish something and sell a reasonable number of books or a handful of short stories in publications will I ever describe myself as a writer. In fact before I got into the daily routine of writing I did actually describe myself as 'aspiring to be an aspiring writer'.

I think you can be an aspiring author or an author. You're a writer, or not a writer. (In pedant mode - soz.)

 

[Venusian Broon]

I think you can be an aspiring author or an author. You're a writer, or not a writer. (In pedant mode - soz.)

Fair enuff! I am yet again bested by Mr Palmer. But I won't change my internal view on it because I can also be extremely pig-headed

(The only thing in my defence that I can argue is that a writer is to me is defined as someone who writes for a career/money - which of course technically is wrong - but only because that's one of the big goals that I've aimed to attain. I do recognise that that is a very restrictive definition - but I only apply it to myself, honest. So no need for others to jump in saying "No, that's not how I feel"!)

 

[Jo Zebedee]

So we're back to career aspirations. Interesting one, about the creativity feeling very different from more obviously mundane work tasks. I appreciate I'm not far down the path to becoming an author but, frankly, there are days when writing is no more exciting that designing powerpoints for me. Of course, there are still days when it flows and is lovely but these are more than matched by days editing a scene for the nth time, or writing queries and blurbs, or blogging (which I quite like) and generally doing things much like I do in my real job and just about as exciting.

How much do we know about a career as a writer? Do we see it as the same as our hobby when we write a scene and enjoy it and feel the muse, or, indeed, have the luxury to say to heck with it, I'm not in the mood today, I'll not write. Because, for me, the last few months writing has been up there with filing reports - it's not in the I'd like to do camp but in the list of things that must be done. Planting seeds are higher up my do-for-fun list at the moment (not complaining, by the way, I love writing, even if I do have to kick myself in the butt to get started sometimes these days.)

@Quellist, you make me feel very lucky for the tremendous support I have around me.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

My writing is a job. A fun one but then I enjoyed being an archaeologist, museum assistant, bar maid, shop assistant (except in a posh clothes shop), care home worker, cleaner etc

The one I hate is "Are you a serious writer?" And upsetting people with "No it's too much fun for that."

But no I don't see it the same as my hobbies - I have to make a massive error to bother unpicking a quilt.