To Kindle or not to Kindle...

[Editorinchic]

Microsoft don't do sensible tablets at all.
Apple ones are x2 at least overpriced for what they are.

Any kind of Tablet, inc Fire (stupid Amazon putting "Kindle" in name of it) is more general purpose than a dedicated eReader and poorer to read text and much poorer battery life. It's complementary. For lots of reading text there is no alternative at all yet to eInk screens. There are some non-Kindle eInk screens.

There are four main kinds of eBooks:

1. Amazon: You need a Kindle reader application (which includes built in app on a Fire) or a real Kindle eInk reader due to DRM.
   
2. Other Publishers with DRM based on Adobe, usually ePub.
3. eBooks with no DRM. Usually available as Kindle compatible (Mobi format), plain text, HTML, ePub etc. Can be converted easily to epub (not Kindle app) or mobi (Kindle)
4. PDFs. Often scanned, so can't resize for a smaller than 11" screen

It's possible to remove DRM, not illegal outside USA for personal use, but stupidly illegal in USA.

A Kindle App, or other eReader app for phone, Tablet, netbook, Kindle Fire, laptop, PC etc DOES NOT make an eReader. It's simply poor way to read eBooks on general purpose equipment with usually LCD screens.

Real eReaders have eInk screens (there is now a similar Chinese tech, but it's very grey, like eInk in 2007) and are not much good for anything other than reading as display response time is slow and only 16 shades of grey. They are mechanical. They ALWAYS suit the ambient light level, use ZERO power except for page turns and are closest tech to reading paper. Not all are Kindles, but since anything can be converted to Mobi format and Amazon is largest supplier of eBooks with DRM and subsidizes them a Kindle Touch (or Kindle DXG if you need lots of PDFs). The Paperwhite does have a front light so you can read in the dark, but really Touch is fine if you have enough light for an old paperback. The LED front lights on Paperwhite can only be dimmed, not turned off, so waste battery and help suppress melatonin when reading late at night (all "white" LEDs are in reality blue/violet with yellow phosphor).

Have you heard of Edition Guard? Just wanted to check what everyone thinks of using these DRM solutions

 

[Ray McCarthy]

Pointless and probably to be avoided like the plague.

DRM is evil and pointless. At least Amazon allows Authors/Publishers to publish without it.
Adobe DRM using activation servers on modified ePub is particularly nasty (Amazon DRM for bought books will work even if the physical Kindle never connects to Amazon)

If this is the "Edition Guard" you mean, it's evil and pointless. It uses the very nasty Adobe system.
http://www.digitalbookworld.com/201...small-presses-to-sell-ebooks-with-drm-direct/

DRM doesn't stop commercial piracy. Only limits YOU to a fixed number of devices, abrogates long term copyright rights and inconveniences you if a new physical gadget comes out that you want you video / music / books on.

http://www.teleread.com/drm/easy-drm-for-self-published-authors-really/

DRM imposes restrictions that go far beyond copyright.

Just make a backup of the file (Not sure how hard that is with iBooks on an Apple iThing, but easy with Kindle or Kobo). You can't get in trouble for that.
Later if the DRM fails (like Microsoft turned off Plays for Sure) you can use Calibre plug in or other tool to remove the DRM.

 

[Vertigo]

Agree completely with Ray. DRM does absolutely nothing to prevent piracy. Anyone intent on pirating ebooks will simply remove the DRM; it's not hard to do. Unfortunately what DRM does do is penalise the 'innocents' who don't pirate anyway and therefore have little understanding of how to remove the DRM and who, when they eventually replace their Kindle with a Nook or vice versa, suddenly find they can't read their books any longer without learning how to do that DRM removal 'techie' business. So absolutely all that DRM does is limit the choices of the reader; it tends to lock a reader into a particular device which is certainly in the interests of Amazon etc. but really does nothing for publisher and/or author.

 

[SilentRoamer]

Have to agree with Ray here - I fail to see the point of DRM, all it really does is make life difficult for general users. Those with the will and inclination will just remove the DRM anyway. It is a clunky and crude method of restricting content to specific devices, I fail to believe it is for copyright purposes and not something more manufacture locking related.

 

[Overread]

Out of interest anyone here using a Kindle Voyage?
I've one of the old style kindles with keyboad and paddle buttons for turning pages and I'm considering an upgrade. Losing the keyboard I'm not worried about as in reality I've never used the "notations" feature and outside of one or two purchases on the kindle I've never needed to use the keyboard otherwise. That said I'm a fan of buttons and not a big one of touchscreens (I'm not opposed to them I just don't think its practical in most situations). So the new "pressure"based page turning of the Voyage is interesting, but I wonder how it works in reality.

Anyone got any experience? I'd rather like a new Kindle if purely for the backlight

 

[Ray McCarthy]

I thought the voyage seemed overpriced compared to the cheapest Kindle Touch. My understanding is that it's for kids, though it's higher resolution than early models. The Paperwhite is now on 3rd version and has now same screen as Voyage.

See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_e-book_readers
Note many of these are unavailable.

Beware of shops with old stock of obsolete models as Amazon has quite better later versions with same name & general appearance as older versions!

No kindle has a backlight.
The Paperwhite has a FRONT light. In normal room lighting you don't need it. The new Touch uses vastly improved eInk screen compared to the earlier models with button navigation.

If you are not typing annotation, you'd not be concious of the Paperwhite and Touch being touch screens. Menu or paging is easier than the clunky buttons on the older kindles. Though I normally prefer buttons, but the kind of button on kindles is terrible really.

Main Types of eInk screen

1. Original Vizplex: Original eReaders before Kindle
2. Improved Vizplex: Kindle 1, 2 versions and original 9.7" DX
3. Pearl: Kobo Glo, 1st Kindle Touch, current 9.7" Kindle DXG, Nook Simple Touch, 1st Kobo Glo, last button versions.
   
4. Mobius: Sony 13.8" digital paper. Flexible backing.
5. Carta: Both generations of Paperwhite, Slightly improved for current 2nd edition Touch, higher resolution version on Kobo Aura HD and Kindle Voyage. Probably Kobo Aura H2O

Mostly the contrast improves with each version (less grey, whiter)

 

[Overread]

The Voyage indeed seems highly priced; esp considering its age in the market. The thing its for me I've never licked touchscreens all that much.

Yes you are right its a frontlight not a backlight; I just tend to call all lights like that backlights (habit). The voyage does have one trump card with that in its adaptive light sensor so that its lighting adjusts to the ambient lighting around one. They also have some fancy "dark reading" mode so that it starts out bright and then dims over time so that you get used to reading without needing it glaring at you so much; easier on the eyes and battery.

That and the pressure buttons for page turning appear to be its prime features above the paperwhite; also I think it might have more internal memory? (in all honestly I'm still surprised that many kindles have such small internal memory - esp considering how Amazon is pushing not just ebooks but audiobooks, audios being far bigger in size).

 

[Ray McCarthy]

The only current kindle that does Audio is think the Kindle DXG (not sure about Voyager). The DXG audio support is abysmal. You can only play / pause / step next. No navigation at all. No list of content. Certainly the Paperwhite and Touch don't do audio.

The oldest 1st Touch model (before Paperwhite) and most older models with buttons did have audio, but it was really for Text to Speech. The Text To Speech works OK on the DXG, but is like late 1990s tech. Only a male or female American voice and extremely limited parsing, so very much poorer than Windows XP, Vista, Win7, Win 8, OS X or Linux today. I use it to test my made up Place and Character names, because if it reads them as I imagine then humans will manage.

The Kindles are dedicated eBook READERS. They are rubbish at anything else. Poor for PDF or images (both are possible) and just usable to look up Wikipedia or buy a book on Amazon (I prefer to buy books on laptop and download to laptop, then transfer a copy via USB, but at least you CAN on the 3G models buy a book in a "Need to read something" emergency.

4G byte is a HUGE amount for eBooks, excepting image based PDFs. Possibly as many as 2,000 books. You can archive books on your laptop etc via USB.
Touchscreen on a Kindle isn't same user experience as a phone or tablet. Try one in Tesco display (or any place with Kindle on display). I hate touch screen phone. But the page turn on Paperwhite and Touch is easier than the buttons on my DXG. We have five different generations of Kindle in the family, so I can easily compare!

 

[Ray McCarthy]

The thing its for me I've never licked touchscreens all that much

Well, if you are wolf, you might try licking I suppose, but I'd have thought a paw works

 

[Overread]

Ah I know my Kindle does audio, they even put an experimental "MP3" player into it; that said it sounds like the very amateur interface has persisted into new generations of Kindle. Indeed its my one gripe that the interface is so backwards and I'm really surprised that Amazon didn't put a good mp3 player system into Kindles - listening to music whilst reading is something we all do and it would let Amazon sell even more music direct - a way to corner a market segment currently dominated by Apple.
(though my biggest complaint is the lack of being able to put collections into other collections for easier sorting and being able to set custom screensavers without having to hack the unit)

 

[Ray McCarthy]

I'm really surprised that Amazon didn't put a good mp3 player system into Kindles

Eats power compared to normal reading mode, that's why (codec, DAC and Audio Amp). Possible that's why they dropped Audio completely on Paperwhite and last two Touch models. Unlike a smartphone or tablet, the power consumption with no frontlight is nearly zero on an eInk based reader. The cpu only active enough to detect User Input. Then speeds up to refresh/turn page which uses a spike of power.
Almost everyone has a phone now as MP3 player. I suspect an MP3 player uses far more power than the Paperwhite LED front light at normal level!

There are no custom Privacy Screens (they are not "screen savers") because then people with an advert paid model would be able to circumvent the adverts. The Advert subsidised models replace the privacy screen randomised artwork with an advert page. On mine you can hold on/off button slightly longer and the screen is blank.
The image in "Off" mode takes no power at all and lets you know it is off. Otherwise you'd be be pressing page button or doing page change swipe and thinking you hadn't. So the image is dual purpose. A casual passer by can't see what you are reading and you know it's off.
The Kindle is easily "Jail broken" (or earlier ones anyway) then you can add fonts, change the Off screens etc. It can be easily "bricked" if you do it wrong. Also I'm not clear if a Jail Broken one works with Amazon DRM (but the DRM can be removed by Calibre, though that's illegal to do in USA, perfectly legal outside USA for your own use).

 

[Overread]

Eating battery power is a valid concern, however one can just put a bigger battery inside; most mp3 can do a good few hours music playing and the e-ink won't put much difference in drain on that ontop.

The advert paid models don't explain why you can't set your custom screens because they could just use a different DRM setup and it would give people another reason to want a full paid not advertising supported version (or to upgrade). Indeed I'm honestly surprised Amazon didn't at least let you use book cover art from the book you're currently reading onto the front of the Kindle (great "free advertising" of the bok you're currently reading to others).

Personally I wonder how much profit Amazon actually makes of Kindles. It wouldn't surprise me if they really don't make much profit at all and instead rely upon subsequent book sales to profit; as a result they can't afford to up the basic entry level price of Kindles (Voyage would suggest otherwise, but then again at twice the price or more than other entry level models its not really blocking entry into the Kindle market to customers)

 

[Brian G Turner]

Personally I wonder how much profit Amazon actually makes of Kindles.

My understanding is that Amazon sell Kindles at a loss, in order to lock consumers into buying Amazon products - which is where their value proposition kicks in.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

Well, they are not locked in though. Smashwords books work fine as do any free books.
Calibre with suitable plug in will convert anything locked to the more evil Adobe Digital Editions DRM extended version of ePub. (Native on Kobo).
You really only have to connect to Amazon once to register (otherwise you can't make collections) and ever after you never need to connect to Amazon (even if buying books as USB transfer works). Of course Kindle Library / Unlimited etc may need connection.

It's likely very little loss compared to complete loss of more expensive Sky PVR, Dish, LNB and install, stuff you own from day 1 of Sky Pay TV. Also more use without Amazon than a Sky box without a sub.

I doubt the basic WiFi only Touch is much subsidised and in Ireland it's not cheaper with adverts (€79 inc VAT). They can't be making much money. The eInk screens are lot more expensive than LCD.
The still available 3G (free wikipedia) 9.7" DXG certainly is seriously subsidised. I suspect remaindered stock from the failed University Text book scheme (they needed to do more with the GUI), not actually in production.

most mp3 can do a good few hours music playing

The selling point of real eReaders is WEEKS per charge, with every day reading.

If there was no ad supported version there might be custom screens. It's important to understand that the HW may be 3rd party designed based on eInk Corp Reference and Amazon has very very little software resource involved. They bought Mobi, and the reader is based on Mobipocket, ported to Android (there was a Palm version originally). The OS is basically Linux / Android without the stock Android GUI, which is why the GUI is very limited. It would be about 2 weeks work for one programmer. So they are not going to have a special variant with user selectable "Off Screens".

 

[Vertigo]

I would tend to disagree with you there, Ray. Yes, there are some DRM free books out there but the vast majority from established authors via the big publishers (with the exception of Baen and Tor) are all DRM. Yes, you can easily strip the DRM using Calibre, but the vast majority of Kindle users don't bother (or don't know how, or don't bother to find out how) and just automatically buy from Amazon (after all it is very rare that anyone else has the same book at a lower price than Amazon - see below). So whilst they aren't totally locked in the effect is the same.

What also 'locks' people in is, of course, Amazon's low prices. Effectively everything Amazon is currently doing is a loss leader; they have never made any significant profit. In other words they are and have always been price dumping (both on the readers and the books) which is steadily eliminating their competition. You can bet your bottom dollar that once that competition is all eliminated we will no longer be getting cheap books from Amazon and they will be making major profit. It staggers me that our respective governments are allowing this to happen.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

I've bought a couple of books on Smashwords cheaper than Amazon.

But I agree, there is an element of lock-in due to Amazon dominance and predatory nature (buying up competitors: Mobi, Abe, Book Depository. Buying review sites: IMDB and Goodreads.).
At least Amazon doesn't insist on DRM. The big publishers need to realise that DRM is stupid and evil.

I don't think everything is a loss leader, but certainly they could give lessons to supermarkets. They put 100% of profit into expansion and buyouts and data-centres so that overall they never make a profit.

I was I suppose being overly pedantic. The Kindle will seem like a lock-in to most people because it doesn't have Adobe DRM. But none of the dedicated eReaders with Adobe Digital Edition DRM version of ePub support Amazon's DRM, they are "locked out" from the biggest range of titles. The third eco-system, Apple's iBooks have no proper dedicated eReader at all. Sony should have partnered with Publishers and not tried to create their own eco-system, but since Mini-disk days the Sony Gadget world has been crippled by their media division.
Apple ipod was crippled without iTunes and earliest models nearly impossible to use on Win98, but somehow the Apple fans coped better with Apple's walled garden than Sony's.

USA believes in soft touch regulation of large Corporates, so does Ireland. Most of the big Internet dominating companies are USA based. 29 of the top 30 Internet companies have EU offices in Ireland (they are all USA excluding TenCent), not due to low tax but lack of enforcement of EU regulation. This is why many USA companies are making Ireland HQ for ALL activity outside the USA.

The EU can really do almost nothing about Google, Oracle, IBM, Microsoft, Apple, Amazon, HP, Dell, Intel, USA clothing brands or the USA food & drink franchises. The USA needs to take action. It's a shame.

We will end up with USA cultural and Retail Marketing dominance world wide (with all actual product made outside USA and EU in India, China, Malaysia, Mexico, Philippines, Turkey, Pakistan, Bangladesh etc), which is why the USA government won't interfere with big USA Mega Corps or the misuse of USPTO, evil Millennium Copyright act etc.

It's very depressing.

 

[Vertigo]

It's very depressing.

Agreed

 

[Ray McCarthy]

Some comparisons

[GALLERY=media, 1612]Acer Netbook by Ray McCarthy posted Jul 15, 2015 at 9:29 AM[/GALLERY]
No room lights are on. It's a poorly lit Victorian cottage with one window behind the work position causing nasty reflection on LCD (my big laptop has a very matte screen and isn't as bad) My 6" Tablet is a similar quality LCD to the Acer Netbook.

[GALLERY=media, 1613]Kindle Touch vs LCD by Ray McCarthy posted Jul 15, 2015 at 9:29 AM[/GALLERY]
In real life the Kindle Touch (new Dec 2014, there is an older model that predates the Paperwhite) is much brighter. The phone camera has reacted to bright LED back light of LCD and corrected the colour. In reality it's much bluer and would be bad to read late at night as it would suppress sleep hormones. You should only use incandescent or Halogen as reading lamp late at night. LED lamps are worst.

[GALLERY=media, 1614]Kindle DXG vs Kindle Touch by Ray McCarthy posted Jul 15, 2015 at 9:29 AM[/GALLERY]
The 9.7" Kindle DXG uses an improved screen compared to original Kindle DX or earlier Kindles. The Dec 2014 Kindle Touch is newer than 2nd version of the Kindle Paperwhite and has no front light. 2015 sees a 3rd version of Paperwhite using a front lit screen same this version of Touch which is higher resolution than older Kindles. In normal light needed for a paperback, you don't need the light turned up on a Paperwhite.

[GALLERY=media, 1615]Kindle eInk vs LCD outdoors by Ray McCarthy posted Jul 15, 2015 at 9:29 AM[/GALLERY]
Outside on a clear day the LCD screen is very hard to read even at full brightness.

Battery life of Netbook about 4 hours. About 60 to 80 hours CONTINUOUS reading for the Kindle when WiFi / 3G is off. I only use USB transfer. Less than a day vs 1 to 2 weeks.

Sorry about poor quality of photos using Sony Z1 phone.

 

[Vince W]

On a related note, today is Prime Day on Amazon and several models of Kindle are on sale, so today might be the day to take the plunge if you have a Prime account.

 

[Overread]

What are the sale prices like?