Cursing?

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Cli-Fi

John J. Falco
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I have noticed that many of the scifi books I read do not have much curse words in them, if at all. Maybe this has something to do with the fact that almost all the books I read have been written in 1950s-1960s. Yet on television cursing is usually the centerpiece of a gritty drama with an amazing story.

Two of the best TV shows in years namely The Wire has cursing every other word and Breaking Bad has curses thrown into the most heated and intense moments on the show. This seems to be done intentionally and there doesn't seem any reason why it shouldn't be done in novels. Yet it seems, that novels shy far away from this sort of dialogue. Does that have something to do with the industry? Are they still squeamish about curses? Are there namely scifi novels with lots of curse words?

I don't really like the idea of making up curse words as they did in the Robot series but there is something brilliant about Battlestar Galactica's frak.

The only reasoning I can come up with, if this isn't an unwritten rule in the industry. Is that writers can usually make a novel with enough realism that cursing can be seen as unnecessary filler. Yet on television and in the movies, cursing can heighten a tense and emotional moment, but when put into words. Cursing in that same scene is not needed.
 
Hmm, I'm not enough of a SF reader, so was intrigued by your post. Certainly plenty of swearing in fantasy books, though, especially among the so-called 'grimdark' authors! Are science fiction novels really that much 'cleaner' than fantasy?
 
Juliana said:
Hmm, I'm not enough of a SF reader, so was intrigued by your post. Certainly plenty of swearing in fantasy books, though, especially among the so-called 'grimdark' authors! Are science fiction novels really that much 'cleaner' than fantasy?
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IDK, it makes sense that the darker fantasy writers use cursing, but even with the go-to George RR Martin. People say he tries to be too vulgar when he uses the curse words. I guess I just don't buy into many of the optimistically rosy but "something is wrong" storylines I see in sci-fi.
 
I think it depends what you read. I've just read a fantasy book where practically every second word is f***. My current release, Inish Carraig (which is a sf) is full of swearing - mainly because it's based in Belfast and people swear a lot. So far, no one has seemed horrified (but it's early days.) my last book also had some swearing in it - although more limited.

Personally, I'm of a mind if you're going to do it, just do it. Don't make up words, just say it. If it's in the context of your world people will either like it or hate it. It might lose you some readers - it might gain you others.
 
It may be a time thing. I remember being very surprised about 25 years ago at discovering swear words in Neuromancer. Likewise, the later Foundation novels are much more "adult" than the earlier ones (and aren't improved by it). I think swearing came in comparatively late in SFF, perhaps around 1980-90. If you ask me, go for whatever works. I certainly don't think there's a "rule" about this. Personally, I'd avoid anything that sounded silly, and to me the made-up swear words fall into that category.
 
Toby Frost said:
Personally, I'd avoid anything that sounded silly, and to me the made-up swear words fall into that category.
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Well I use the word "crump" all the time in my writing, and that's not silly at all.

Well, maybe it is a little silly.

Seriously though, there's no use fussin' over dang good cussin', as my old verger used to say. When it's used well, swearing should feel normal and immersive, but it's all about context. If you're writing a military action drama, then it's probably to be expected that your salty, battle-hardened troops are going to use slightly harsher language than "woopsy-daisy" or "oh, you silly goose!" in everyday parlance.

Contrarily, your top brass in the same novel might be slightly more restrained in their language - at least publicly, or officially.

Similarly, if your setting is the downtrodden, poor, less educated then it's pretty obvious there'll be a few more swear words knocking about (although not always), and they'll possibly use the swear words in a more mundane way, or a funnier way. Trainspotting comes to mind.

And yes, I'm aware I'm being a bit stereotypical to make a point.
 
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The difference between expletives in TV to literature, is seeing something written down can be far more jarring if used repetitively.

Conversational obscenities in TV and media we become inured to eg Jessie in BB.; consider when Walt swears, it had much more meaning and symbolism. If your written character repeatedly swears it just seems pointless and unimaginative because you 'see' a word more.

I use swearing in my writing but I'm careful not to overuse the same one for this reason.

pH
 
Phyrebrat said:
The difference between expletives in TV to literature, is seeing something written down can be far more jarring if used repetitively.
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That's true, to an extent. But again, if you're writing someone who is less educated (let's say Jessie, in your example, or Begbie, in mine) then it's highly likely that they'll use the snarling aggression of constant swearing as the basis of their verbal communication because they don't have access to more erudite articulation.

It's also a case of interpretation. Someone who is perhaps more refined will find the constant use of effin' and jeffin' extremely jarring and even uncomfortable, be it on TV or written down. Someone who uses that language in their own lives won't find it jarring, and indeed will relate to it. And I reckon that both you and I have met plenty of the latter in our time, Ph!
 
If it works within the context of the story, I don't have a problem with it. My second book is a bit more, 'rich' with language than the first, because it fits with the story.
 
...cursing is usually the centerpiece of a gritty drama with an amazing story? WTF?
Poisonally - dint like The Wire or Barfing Bad, because there is real drug-addled drama going on around here alla time and these shows are a bit precious. As far as 'drug' literature or shows go anyway. I'm looking at a guy right now, loading up a TV to go cash it in for crakola money for the day. He's cursing a blue streak and there's kids sitting there watching him. An amazing drama! * )
 
I don't mind cursing providing it isn't forced. In Croatia, I hear a great deal of quite imaginative curse words and they really wouldn't feel out of place in a story set in Croatia. I'm just in favour of authors not overdoing it or doing it for the sake of doing it.

I do giggle at the tanj in Ringworld series. Personally, I don't really mind that they invent new curse words, but it kinda feels pointless most of the time since it starts registering as a curse word eventually except to achieve/avoid a certain rating. Not entirely sure how that would translate to books since I live in a country that is rather numb to curse words in literature, movies, and everyday speech and we rarely pay much attention to ratings even when the content is unsuitable for several reasons, language used being the least of the issues. Even the library lady won't bat an eyelash at a 13 year old borrowing Martin's books without parental supervision even though the aforementioned library lady actually read them. <- Personally tested.

Some funny trivia regarding curse words in movies and films
Some animated films e.g. Casper add some heavy words just to avoid the G rating while some movies e.g. Student Bodies do it to attain R rating and some movies e.g. The King's Speech had actually cut down the number of curse worlds to achieve a PG-13 rating in USA. Applying that to books hoping for an adaptation, I can see why they'd want to keep it somewhere in the middle.
 
So, what about these kids wandering around here with F-everything T-shirts, and backpacks with every nasty word in the book on 'em? There goes one now, onto the bus. It says F--- all over his backpack. No-one even notices anymore.
 
There's only one obscenity I'm very careful with because it's so loaded with misogyny (which is a shame because it'd be a perfect name for one of my shorts).

For me, the use of perjoratives is more tricky than the use of expletives.

pH
 
Some while ago I read an article in the newspaper in which someone concluded that the most insulting word in the language was "scum". Why? First, it has no good side, like being a hard *******. Nobody ever claims it with pride. Secondly, if you call someone "scum", you've deliberately decided not to use any of the swear words. Throwing a bunch of expletives is easy, the article claimed, where chosing a non-expletive took real contempt.
 
The use of "Frak" in BG is painful to my ears.

I think if you need to swear then swear but it needs to have place and it needs to be in character - quite often swearing just spurts out if people are angry.
 
Personally, I think you ultimately have to go with what you're comfortable with. Some stories or characters demand vulgarity, but if you want to avoid outright cursing then it can be done. The danger there though lies in writing something that doesn't seem natural, but one success that springs to mind is "The Gone-Away World" by Nick Harkaway. There's a grizzled military instructor who, instead of swearing, calls everyone "b*mhole" and it works well without any actual swearing.

Most of my stories feature some swearing but I've managed to avoid going full R.R. Martin so far...
 
Cursing or not has a lot to do with target audience. SF&F draw in big young crowds (how big actually? I'd be interested in knowing which age groups buy more SF&F [since SFF is not only for youngsters anymore] if anyone can direct me to a link or give me the info, I'd be grateful). Coarse language can keep away part of the readership.

A theory of mine is that SFF is read to evade reality in a very telling and straightforward manner, SFF being the most outlandish thing readers can get their hands on. They want something completely different to what they're used to. Cursing brings readers back from the fantasy and into real, gritty, sucky life, where they hear those curse words every day, and then they attach emotional content (not always nice) to these memories. More realistic TV dramas don't need to worry about this, since the context demands cursing, or they risk being discarded as unreal and out of touch. This demand is a problem SFF doesn't have, so I don't see cursing as necessary under any context. It's merely another flavour to taste in the giant palette of deliciousness that is genre writing. I'm not against it, but it's not needed, and readers won't demand it or miss it because the context is so outlandish that it doesn't break suspension of disbelief if there's no "realistic" way of expressing oneself, unlike in modern TV. I like my stories gritty as they come, but have never thought: 'Hmm, this story is good, but it sure could use a pinch of **$£*!!**@#~**'
Toby Frost said:
Some while ago I read an article in the newspaper in which someone concluded that the most insulting word in the language was "scum". Why? First, it has no good side, like being a hard *******. Nobody ever claims it with pride. Secondly, if you call someone "scum", you've deliberately decided not to use any of the swear words. Throwing a bunch of expletives is easy, the article claimed, where chosing a non-expletive took real contempt.
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If that's the case, I nominate 'canker blossom'. We can bring it back, I know we can. Clart-rag can do as well.
 
Hmmmm, but if a sf story isn't outlandish, but based in the real world, in a setting where there would be swearing? Then, it could be needed. Also, a YA market/readership does not rule out cursing in any way. A trawl through the YA section of most bookstores would confirm that (I had a YA agent for Inish with all its swearing loveliness.)

@Phyrebrat - don't know if it's the same word, but I try not to use one beginning with c despite it being used frequently in and around these parts.
 
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