Introducing a love interest.

[Hex]

Now you mention it, I do flirt very much like Sean Connery.

 

[Zebra Wizard]

I've never been too sure about the conflict-turning-to-interest trope. Does that actually happen in real life? Personally, the people I've hated at first sight, I've continued to hate thereafter.

I don't mean a "hate" type conflict, but perhaps a conflict in interest perhaps even competitively or rivalry that can turn into desire/respect etc. You see it happened alot in literature, like the nurse and the soldier who have different views on how things should be dealt with.

Trying to balance cheesiness, realism and cliche is a difficult task, because in real life alot of romance is either cheesy or very boring/slow to start.

I would say, make your character be a bit ballsy and just go for it, maybe turn it into humor and then perhaps failure that can be developed later on. Or if he's confident, he could just go for it before getting rejected for whatever reason. It saves having to put those "I saw her and she was beautiful" type internal monologues and replaces it with action that speaks for itself. I think you need to ask yourself whether you want this to blossom from the beginning or be developed/persued over a course of time, that would give you some options you can choose from.

 

[Toby Frost]

I've never been too sure about the conflict-turning-to-interest trope. Does that actually happen in real life? Personally, the people I've hated at first sight, I've continued to hate thereafter.

I agree. But it seems to have a sort of deep unconscious effect on some people as to what they want to read. It seems to be the romance equivalent of having vigorous sex with a man called Hans just after he has arrived to fix the washing machine - totally unconnected to real life, but somehow appealling for a fair number of people!

 

[Hex]

Yep! (except the man called Hans and the washing machine). I really like the conflict-turning-to-interest trope. It mightn't be true in real life, although I have, actually, started off having big arguments with people I have subsequently had relationships with -- possibly because I've been obeying the patterns of the books I like to read -- but it pleases me as a story in a book.

 

[HareBrain]

I've never been too sure about the conflict-turning-to-interest trope. Does that actually happen in real life? Personally, the people I've hated at first sight, I've continued to hate thereafter.

I read an explanation for this somewhere that rang true to me. In real life, it tends to be not hate, but a kind of sniping combativeness powered by sexual tension. The inability to resolve the sexual tension (where it's suppressed), results in the emotions trying to provoke a fight so they can be released that way.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

I really like the conflict-turning-to-interest trope.

It needs to be a specific kind of conflict I think, then it's believable. Simple disdain or hatred and then a love interest seems a cheat, a Deux ex Machina kind of fake. But when it's well done it's good and much more interesting than "love-at-first-sight" chapter 1, those are only interesting if like Romeo & Juliet etc and then I hate tragedies anyway. Now I know how it ends I won't read/watch that one again.

 

[Hex]

Conflict-turning-to-interest can also be a variant of getting to know each other. There's a nice Diana Wynne Jones story in which the male character has to chase the female character around for half a day to give her a message and he gets irritable and frustrated. When he finds her, he's annoyed by her (and the "sob" in her voice). Once he gets to know her -- after trying to avoid having anything to do with her after that initial impression -- he gradually starts accepting that she has good points, and by the end of the book he's in love with her. It's nicely done and it works.

I can think of various other books where I think it's really well done as well. I'm not a fan of love-at-first-sight, either.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

Film: In the Summertime/Shop around the Corner/You've got mail (All remakes of same play).

 

[cgsmith]

But... You're Scottish. Not able to flirt? Can't be possible. Look at Sean Connery, David Tennant, Ewan MacGregor.. Its genetic.

I know right. Sadly I am exempt from the genetic affect. I'm one of those oblivious guys who says things like "It's bit late to be drinking coffee, thanks. Good night. Bye."

 

[cgsmith]

Conflict-turning-to-interest can also be a variant of getting to know each other. There's a nice Diana Wynne Jones story in which the male character has to chase the female character around for half a day to give her a message and he gets irritable and frustrated. When he finds her, he's annoyed by her (and the "sob" in her voice). Once he gets to know her -- after trying to avoid having anything to do with her after that initial impression -- he gradually starts accepting that she has good points, and by the end of the book he's in love with her. It's nicely done and it works.

I can think of various other books where I think it's really well done as well. I'm not a fan of love-at-first-sight, either.

It can be easy for people to get off on the wrong foot, but when people recover from that and actually get to know each other past their own first impressions then anything can happen.

My first impression of my now best friend wasn't great, but now, you know, bff's.

My mc is going to be thinking about survival when they meet anyways (i have written the chapter already but I am going to rewrite it over the next few days) so there may be some conflict - but it will be resolved and the characters will understand.

 

[Theophania Elliott]

I'm not a fan of love-at-first-sight, either.

I wasn't, either, until it happened to me. OK, technically it was the dislike-turning-to-love thing, because I thought he was a bit of a prat for at least ten minutes. But by the end of the day, all that had been cleared up and it was all hearts-and-flowers after that.

Still is. Bit sickening, really.

 

[Theophania Elliott]

And to add my bit to the actual thread... one thing that gets to me about so many book couples is that they seem to have zero shared interests. What do they talk about when they're not fighting monsters or having sex? So many of these couples, I just have this vision of them staring mutely at each other because once the plot is out of the way, they have nothing whatsoever in common.

So what brings them together other than physicality? Do they both love books? Classic cars? Cats?

My husband and I are still crazy in love, fifteen years after the love-at-first-sight-after-I-decided-he-wasn't-a-prat, partly because we're both bookworms (sci-fi and fantasy, though interestingly, often not the same books) and we're both interested in history. We have lots to connect us other than the fact that he's drop-dead gorgeous. We've also seen other couples drift apart because they didn't have shared interests.

So what do your couple talk about when you're not watching them? What do they do when they're not serving the plot?

Also, flirting isn't necessary if it doesn't fit either them or you. Let them connect as friends, and they can get closer from there.

 

[RX-79G]

So many of these couples, I just have this vision of them staring mutely at each other because once the plot is out of the way, they have nothing whatsoever in common.

Everyone has something in common. It doesn't have to be some big hobby or deep love of film. A shared sense of humor, enjoyment of going out, neatness, etc don't sound like resume material but are more than enough to keep two people from boring each other.

Like many writing mistakes, if you want to validate a relationship in text, the best way to do it is to show the characters interacting, not talking about their off-screen interests.



I think that a "love interest" can be just a character descriptor - the rarely seen wife that explains elements of the character, like why he doesn't go after the woman flirting with him.

Or, the love interest IS the story - integral to the plot and the main motivator of character development. I really don't think there is a lot of territory between those extremes without writing something that will seem flat.

 

[Theophania Elliott]

Everyone has something in common.

Not in my experience! I've met (and had to work with) people with whom the only thing I seemed to have in common was species and gender.

It doesn't have to be some big hobby or deep love of film. A shared sense of humor, enjoyment of going out, neatness, etc don't sound like resume material but are more than enough to keep two people from boring each other.

Indeed - but they are all things that bring people together other than sex and plot. If it's a shared sense of humour, what do they both find funny? If they both enjoy going out, where do they like to go?

Getting a sense on the page of what brings people together doesn't mean them having long conversations about the Albigensian Heresy - it can be as simple as a shared reference. Jim Butcher does it in the Dresden Files - Harry's friendship with the Alphas, beyond kicking monster ass, is heavily influenced by their shared interest in table-top gaming. You don't get scenes where they play, but you do see a game starting, or being interrupted.

I think that a "love interest" can be just a character descriptor - the rarely seen wife that explains elements of the character, like why he doesn't go after the woman flirting with him.

In that case, the "love interest" doesn't really exist as a character - like Columbo's (the 1970s TV detective) wife: he often mentions her, but she never appears. Once the love interest appears on screen/page, what do you do then? I'd say that if s/he is anything more than a walk-on part, s/he needs his/her own character and motivations - as has been said above.

Or, the love interest IS the story - integral to the plot and the main motivator of character development. I really don't think there is a lot of territory between those extremes without writing something that will seem flat.

I think there's plenty of room if both characters are written as real people with their own motivations. If one of them is just a cardboard-cutout "love interest" then you're right: there just isn't enough there to support anything complicated. But if both characters are fully-fleshed out independently, you can run the romance/relationship part however you like - quick or slow, loud or quiet, depending on the prominence you want it to have. It's like any other sub-plot.

Kim Harrison manages to string out a romance for about thirteen books - it's a real slow-burn, loathing-to-love one. It's only one thread among several, and it's never the main thrust of any of the books, as far as I recall, and both characters are fairly central.

Barbara Hambly does it with James Asher and his wife, Lydia: they're both proper characters, but you can also see the relationship between them. The books are dark fantasy/horror - definitely not romance. She also does it with Benjamin January and Rose - they meet, fall in love, and get married during the series, and it's part of the (murder mystery - not cosy!) stories. But even though Ben is the main character, Rose is "real" - and she even gets at least one short story of her own.

Love interests are just like any other relationship between two characters: if they're not forced together by a contract (like being cadets in the same cohort), what do they like about each other enough to spend time together when they don't have to? What do they do when they're not having sex or fighting bad guys? If they end up in a line next to each other in the canteen, or stuck in a lift, what do they talk about?

On the other hand, are you intending it to be something that will last, or just sex for both characters to blow off steam? If it's the latter, it probably doesn't matter whether or not they find each other congenial company - as long as they each find the other physically attractive, they can scratch their itch. Of course, that's another kind of relationship you can show on the page...

 

[RX-79G]

In that case, the "love interest" doesn't really exist as a character - like Columbo's (the 1970s TV detective) wife: he often mentions her, but she never appears. Once the love interest appears on screen/page, what do you do then? I'd say that if s/he is anything more than a walk-on part, s/he needs his/her own character and motivations - as has been said above.

Sure. But you can also have a significant other that plays a limited role in the story, but must still exist to make the main character's motivations work. I don't know if that demands they be a "cutout" or not - a little agency and a role in the plot goes a long way. But the point is that it should be okay to stipulate that they are a couple for a reason that won't fit on a single line.

Coming in to the end of a game IS showing the character's living their relationship. But so is a couple using their own insider words, referring to weekly rituals, pranking each other, a particular affectionate touch, worrying about something seemingly trivial in the other's life, etc. I think it would take an anthropologist weeks to decode my relationship with my wife - and that makes me glad.

I think all of this is best understood by just observing a friend at work who's wife you don't often see. You'll realize that you have a model of their relationship and her character built in your mind, mostly from wrinkled brows on the phone, drop ins for lunch, little stories and items on the desk. It doesn't matter if you have that model right or not - it's the clues you built it out of that are the interesting part, because those clues are genuine and can be used to construct the same for your readers.

Indeed - but they are all things that bring people together other than sex and plot. If it's a shared sense of humour, what do they both find funny? If they both enjoy going out, where do they like to go?

The primary reason people get together is because they want to be with someone they appreciate and, coincidentally, one of those people feels the same way. Then they try it out and it works or not. Sometimes the thing they share is their mutual admiration. Then they develop a life out of the need to fit their lives together, not the other way around.

From our POV, more couples fit the "What does she see in him?" model than the opposite. Both are genuine enough.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

Funny this thread has been resurrected I'm working on a screenplay for the writersroom and introducing my work colleagues/love interest. I've got them waking up in bed together unable to remember the night before and not knowing who the other is. I know it's a cliche but allows me to introduce them, sets up a bit of tension from the start and has them together when I need them...

Something like this:
JOE wakes up in a bed, not his own. He's worse for wear, his clothes are everywhere. TIM is in the bed next to him. Both appear to have no clothes on. JOE prods TIM who opens his eyes, holds his head and groans appropriately for someone with a hangover.

Room is untidy and not overly big.

JOE and TIM blink at each other.

JOE

err... I'm Joe.

TIM

Tim.

JOE

Where...?

THEY look round the room.

TIM

Looks like my place... need to sack the cleaner. Breakfast?

JOE finds his watch and looks at it.

JOE

I'm starting a new job in a few hours.

TIM

Wish I was. We've got a new boss starting today. Gossip says he's got a pole shoved so far up his arse it's holding up a flag at the North Pole.

JOE is sat on the side of the bed pulling on his trousers. He grins.

JOE

What did you say you did?

TIM

Plumber.

JOE

Right. I'm an accountant.

Joe pulls on his jumper.

JOE

The George? I think that's where I left my car.

TIM

Can't miss it. It's just across the square.

 

[reiver33]

In the last story I wrote featuring a love interest she was a succubus in the form of the dead MC's wife, so not exactly conventional...

 

[ErikB]

I think that the easiest way to say it (as others have mentioned) is don't create a character "for" another character.

Create characters for your story and allow them to develop a relationship as they naturally might in any life situation.

Also basing characters loosely on people that you know (perhaps a character is a rough amalgamation of two or three people from your own life experiences) will help you to map out the nuances of what builds up their relationship.

One other point to remember is male vs. female psychology. It is harder for a male to write convincing well rounded female characters because men do not focus on or think in the same way a woman would. The same holds true for women, though I believe (just a personal opinion) that women are a bit better naturally at crossing the gender boundary and creating believable male characters.

I like to reference real acquaintances because I find it easier and more believable to base thoughts, behavior, and reactions on real people that I have known. It is like getting the perspective of the other gender without consulting with them directly.

Best wishes for your story! Cheers!

 

[RX-79G]

One other point to remember is male vs. female psychology. It is harder for a male to write convincing well rounded female characters because men do not focus on or think in the same way a woman would. The same holds true for women, though I believe (just a personal opinion) that women are a bit better naturally at crossing the gender boundary and creating believable male characters.

I can think of a popular writing forum where you'd get an ear full for that opinion (followed by summary banning).

I do wonder how much of that is the common perception that women are "mysterious" or whether it is actually that hard to create a realistic character just because of gender. I would have a lot more qualms about my ability to right a convincing Australian man than an American woman, since I at least come from her culture (and know a few).

 

[Hex]

It feels to me as if good writers can create good characters, and whether they are men or women is largely unimportant. It may be that sometimes men write women as seen from a male perspective -- even if theoretically it's from the woman's point of view -- but I think the same is true of women writing men (especially when those men are vampires, werewolves, demons etc etc).

The best female characters I've read in a long time were written by Daniel Abraham, and although I cannot comment on how realistically male they feel to men, Ged and Will Stanton both *felt* like complex and interesting male characters. Ultimately, like dialogue and like love, the people in books aren't really real, they're impressions of real people who feel more real than a real person would.

re love -- I have to agree that many of the relationships among people I know leave me with a "Why on earth?" reaction. While it's interesting to explain falling in love (or having a successful relationship) from one perspective, I suspect there are many different reasons why people get together and stay there. While all the hormones are doing their swirling (approx. the first couple of years), it doesn't have to be about anything rational -- it's about the way skin smells and all that, and it leads to obsessive (and kind of dull) focus on all the wonderfulnesses. Most books with romantic subplots leave it there. However, I think the obsessive his-skin-smells-amazing phase is hard to write well, because madly irrational reactions feel unrealistic, even if they are things that happen in real life. We like there to be reasons, but I don't think they need to be too detailed. Sometimes it's enough to recognise how the other person is special -- like Wentworth does with Anne.