Crowdfunding...

[Ray McCarthy]

pop up book

A rather more expensive SP target than ANY other sort of book. I have a gorgeous Victorian (maybe) pop up zoo book. It must have been horribly expensive to produce.
I can see some logic to it.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

But producing a 75 card pack is not cheap!

No. It's also a competitive market where quality is expected. The card based games are usually far higher quality and heavier card and printing than any regular playing cards.

 

[Boneman]

I could see it working for a book in that the crowdfunding would be for the cost of an ebook, for instance. Because a writer needs to pay for editing/cover/formatting, I could see an author saying "Give me the money, and when I've got the funding, (which pays for all the aforementioned)you'll get a copy of the book. If it goes way over, you'll get a copy of the paperback/the next book free" something like that. For potential investors, they could read the first three chapters as a sweetener, which would entice/inform them. This way the writer gets the best product (edited etc) paid for by advance sales. It could generate good publicity, as well, I guess.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

People need to realise that if they're going to make the jump from writer to author they're going to have to accept having a day job, with all that entails.

To be clear - it's not my argument. I'm fully on the grindstone. But it is one I've seen made by other writers, and not one I subscribe to.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

Though typing with nose to the grindstone is hazardous.
My back goes out of whack if I put my shoulder to the wheel while my best foot is forward.

 

[Stephen Palmer]

To be clear - it's not my argument. I'm fully on the grindstone. But it is one I've seen made by other writers, and not one I subscribe to.

Sorry Jo, that wasn't aimed at you! I meant people, as in people...

 

[Vladd67]

A lot of Call of Cthulhu books seem to be funded by crowdsourcing, the 7th edition of the rules was, as was the recent conversion to 7th edition Horror on the Orient Express.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

A lot of Call of Cthulhu books seem to be funded by crowdsourcing

The writing or the publishing?

 

[Vladd67]

The writing or the publishing?

Publishing, followed by lots of interesting extras when the target is met.

 

[Overread]

Thanks all - I've not been involved with one but did stick to a handful a while back. A few of what I've written is based on a couple that looked neat but which ultimately failed to fund due to several of the points I mentioned. Often as not many fail just because word doesn't get out.

The biggest risk is biting off more you can chew though. That is failing even if you get funded because things take longer/cost more than you expect. It's the biggest risk in backing or running a KS because often as not getting further funding is very hard.

That said a good few (esp video games as high end ones can cost millions to make these days) KS use the KS to show potential regular investors and banks that "YES" there is a market; here I've not even got a product and I've made pre-orders. It can help secure further funding - however - if you go that path it suggests that you need way more than your KS can fund (the highest have reached around a few million - and most of them were miniature model companies because they can basically add huge amounts of extras - getting hundreds out of individual backers); which means you need investment agreements written up BEFORE so that when the KS is funded those investors come on board as well. If you do it after you run the risk that some will still say no and then you're stuck because you have to hunt around again in a panic for an investor. Again its the fact that a KS has to be planned well in advance.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

There are a lot of naive people, both creating the projects, and funding. Also scammers. As well as that a lot of silly projects.
Beware!

 

[Overread]

I would say scammers are surprisingly few; more so I would say that most projects that fail tend to be cases of those in control who were either naive or who suddenly got hit with unexpected problems which increased costs beyond their means to repair.

Sometimes a fail doesn't mean all the KS backers hate you - communication is critical. Communicate well and your backers will keep up and react in kind; communicate badly or not at all and if something goes wrong you're dead.

 

[james lanfear]

It occurs to me, that the very first book would have to be from the traditional (burning the midnight oil) source.
Were you to have a modest success with it, then you could pre-sell your next book with a type of crowd-funding. You would have an initial fan-base to start with.
By-passing agents, publishers, those middle-men (all of whom soak up the money), would mean a greater return from each copy.
It would seem possible to sell your own 'e', or hard copies direct & make some money at it. No?
Subsequently, how well you did out of it would, of course, depend on how good you were as a writer. If the books were good enough, they would end up selling themselves.
At least, you're getting some income from your work as you proceed & hopefully, get better.
There may not be enough income from just one book to live off but ten years later, with ten or more books 'on the go', who knows? At that point you'd have a mail-order firm running it all for you & you can just write.
Sounds like a plan?

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I'm resurrecting this thread. One of the things first mooted was that this sort of funding didn't suit individual authors, yet
I noted on Kameron Hurley's website she links to Patreon. This, despite making 50k at writing last year (according to her own figures.) which shows that some writers are finding it working for them). There does not appear to be a backlash. It seems to becoming the accepted way to go forwards - as if those who don'd are missing out on the current trend.

I find myself in two minds. On the one hand, I'd like more time to write and, like most of us here, that time is squeezed amongst work and life. But, I have great support out there and would, perhaps, be the sort of writer who could benefit from something like this.

But it feels wrong. It feels like taking before I've worked for it. It feels like asking individuals to pay my wages, instead of the outcome of my graft. I also wonder if, as a trend, it's coming close to saturation. (To be open and upfront, I don't support others through crowdfunding, but buy their book instead. There are so many, every day, on every platform, I'm being asked to donate and I simply can't.) I'd hate for anyone to feel they Should support me, even if they are stretched to do so.

But, on the other hand, money does trickle down from it via writers to cover artists, to copy editors etc. It does, perhaps, provide income the arts need and a new business model.

On the other side of the coin, I have applied for grants to support my writing (but know it is unlikely they'll go to genre writers in NI) and have no problem with that) and wonder why it feels different.

I find this a real dilemma, one that is relevant to all of us, given the prominence of crowdfunding. My head says I should look into crowdfunding more closely. My heart says no. Mostly, though, I trust my gut.

But what do others think? Am I mad not to go for it? Or right to listen to my instincts?

 

[ratsy]

Jo, Crystal Lake Publishing just signed up for Patreon today I think. I've been following what they've been doing, and I am really impressed with their product.

I'm not so sure you need it at this point, but I could be wrong. There are many ways to get to market these days, and this is another option for small presses, and authors.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

But it feels wrong. It feels like taking before I've worked for it. It feels like asking individuals to pay my wages, instead of the outcome of my graft. I also wonder if, as a trend, it's coming close to saturation. (To be open and upfront, I don't support others through crowdfunding, but buy their book instead.

With eBook publishing and POD Paper costing nothing, and a professional Edit + cover equivalent to what 50% of Irish pay on Pay TV and 30% of UK pay on Pay TV, I can't see any justification for crowdfunding books in the way a new bicycle or drone might be.

Selling / Buying the first eBook is the crowd funding. With eBooks, you can even say "Buy my book & I'll get it better edited" and everyone almost automatically gets the updated (crowd funded edit) version free (or at worse a manual free download from Amazon/Smashwords).

 

[Brian G Turner]

I find this a real dilemma, one that is relevant to all of us, given the prominence of crowdfunding. My head says I should look into crowdfunding more closely. My heart says no. Mostly, though, I trust my gut.

If you already run a business, then IMO it's better to allow that to support the writing. Certainly B2B is usually a far more lucrative, and it's a market you know and understand, and can work successfully with. My impression of crowdfunding is that it's very hit and miss - usually miss, unless there's something exceptional about the person or project. The danger is, putting a lot of time into crowdfunding for little reward. It's a business risk that may require little investment of money, but certainly a lot of time. 2c.

 

[thaddeus6th]

Jo, that's my instinct as well. I think crowdfunding's great for things like videogames (because of development costs) but I'm not sure, sadly, it fits writing.

Maybe I'm wrong. I'd hope to be, but at the moment it just feels a bit awkward.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

If you already run a business, then IMO it's better to allow that to support the writing. Certainly B2B is usually a far more lucrative, and it's a market you know and understand, and can work successfully with. My impression of crowdfunding is that it's very hit and miss - usually miss, unless there's something exceptional about the person or project. The danger is, putting a lot of time into crowdfunding for little reward. It's a business risk that may require little investment of money, but certainly a lot of time. 2c.

Ha! Yes, this is a very good point. My tax returns from last year show pretty clearly that my business is funding my writing currently, and this looks set to be the case in the year to come, too. I just hadn't entirely thought of it that way, but you're right - I have a good source of flexible income and am time-poor in general. It would take a heck of a crowd-funded campaign to replace that, plus I'd lose existing contracts - timewise, I might be no better off and the income would be much less secure.

I can't wait to tell my main contractor that she's now crowdfunding me. It might relax her grip on my leg, checking that I'm-not-ready-to-leave-and-become-a-fulltime-writer just yet.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

Its not crowdfunding but I live in the place where most of the Scotch whisky is made (I think it has nearly half of the distilleries). I've noticed my characters drink a lot of malt so I've just drafted a letter to some of the still locally owned distilleries to see if I can get sponsorship. I'm happy to name the whisky my characters drink - heck I'd do it for a bottle of their 16 year .... or actually if they stock the book in their shop.