Does the series give proof to some book theories?

[Needle]

Okay I posted this thread in the HBO series forum and have as yet gotten no replies! You guys are killing me, help a girl out here!!

Warning: possible spoilers for those not up to date on the HBO series!!!



Hello all. I needed a place to put some of what I think may be proof of some of our avid book reader theories. While we all know the series has in many areas veered widely from the written word and nothing is certain until we see it in print, I have a few things to put up for inspection!

1. Jon is not dead!!! While I believe the actual resurrection of Jon will be different from what we saw, I think we can be sure now that Jon is not dead!

2. Jon's watch ended with his death, freeing him to be the true Ice and Fire the whole epic is building to (IMHO).

3. I knew, knew, knew in my heart that the Old Gods, the Weirwoods, and the White Walkers were connected! Didn't see the Children being involved but as they worshipped the Old Gods I guess it fits. Now the question is: As much as I don't trust Rhallor (God of Light) any further than I can throw a God, does that make him the good guy, please tell me it doesn't!

4. Mel's giant ruby casts a glamour upon her. Just her appearance or is there more to it?

5. We all knew Ramsey would end up killing his baby brother, but can we believe he pulled off killing Roose?

Well it is late and that's all I have for now. I'm sure there will be more to come!

 

[Koopa]

1.yes
2. possible, might be jon just feels that way since the NW did the betraying first (from his pov)
3. No 'God' can ever be trusted, it is known
4. Her ruby flared during the poison incident so i'm guessing it might also be a source of strenght. All the major red priestess seem to posses a ruby so i'm guessing the ruby has powers (to draw from).
5. Not sure what is going to happen with Roose in the books. Roose his death by Ramsay felt like a television thing to me (very much like Doran's death)

 

[viZion]

I feel like Roose is way too smart in the books to be killed by Ramsey. Add to that that Ramsey doesn't seem as smart and cunning in the books and it adds up to it being unlikely that Roose dies by his hand. In the books, Roose had a true born son and he knows that Ramsey killed him. Ramsey doesn't even know Roose knows that. Roose will be just fine in the books.

My opinion on Jon's "resurrection" in the books is still that the stab wounds simply won't be enough to kill him. As I've said before, Tyrion gets maimed in every other chapter and lives so it's not unreasonable to expect Jon to survive his wounds.

 

[svalbard]

I think Ramsay will kill Roose in the books. His letter to Jon lends belief that Ramsay has taken control.

Shireen will burn. I think it will be done in some misguided ritual by Mel to bring Jon back.

No god is good.

I also have a pet theory that Ramsay could be the Ghost of Winterfell or someone (Theon) working on his behalf. I will admit it is a long time since I read ADWD so my memories of events are hazy.

 

[The Imp]

Hi Needle.

You and I both know how Jon is 'coming back'. We just need George to confirm it.

I think book Roose is way too smart to fall for a fake hug and dagger to the heart.

I wonder what might happen if Bran makes it to the other side of the wall. Will the magical protection still work? Will the Night's King be able to enter in the same way that he/they could enter the cave?

More to come after dinner.

 

[Needle]

1.yes
2. possible, might be jon just feels that way since the NW did the betraying first (from his pov)
3. No 'God' can ever be trusted, it is known
4. Her ruby flared during the poison incident so i'm guessing it might also be a source of strenght. All the major red priestess seem to posses a ruby so i'm guessing the ruby has powers (to draw from).
5. Not sure what is going to happen with Roose in the books. Roose his death by Ramsay felt like a television thing to me (very much like Doran's death)

Koopa, you bring up one I had not yet considered, the death or Doran. I agree it really felt like a TV thing. I just don't believe Hotah would be snuck up on and killed in such a fashion. We know he doesn't trust anyone, least of all the Sand Snakes. Not that he can't be killed obviously but I'm not feeling it.

I feel like Roose is way too smart in the books to be killed by Ramsey. Add to that that Ramsey doesn't seem as smart and cunning in the books and it adds up to it being unlikely that Roose dies by his hand. In the books, Roose had a true born son and he knows that Ramsey killed him. Ramsey doesn't even know Roose knows that. Roose will be just fine in the books.

My opinion on Jon's "resurrection" in the books is still that the stab wounds simply won't be enough to kill him. As I've said before, Tyrion gets maimed in every other chapter and lives so it's not unreasonable to expect Jon to survive his wounds.

Oh Vizion! We shall see my friend!! Jon was stabbed multiple times, I'll give you a maybe they don't kill him, but he would be out of the action for a very long time, time he does not have.

I do agree however that the TV Ramsey seems much smarter than the book Ramsey. Book Ramsey has a certain low cunning but smarts? No.

I think Ramsay will kill Roose in the books. His letter to Jon lends belief that Ramsay has taken control.

Shireen will burn. I think it will be done in some misguided ritual by Mel to bring Jon back.

No god is good.

I also have a pet theory that Ramsay could be the Ghost of Winterfell or someone (Theon) working on his behalf. I will admit it is a long time since I read ADWD so my memories of events are hazy.

svalbard I don't know about Shireen. Have to say I'm doubting it. While Stannis may be willing to let it happen, we have to remember that in the book Shireen is at the wall. No way the watch allows Mel to burn a little girl alive!!

Hi Needle.

You and I both know how Jon is 'coming back'. We just need George to confirm it.

I think book Roose is way too smart to fall for a fake hug and dagger to the heart.

I wonder what might happen if Bran makes it to the other side of the wall. Will the magical protection still work? Will the Night's King be able to enter in the same way that he/they could enter the cave?

More to come after dinner.

Imp, I have to admit to being more than a little confused about Bran. I was sure he would become a tree!! Was his time there a training period similar to what Arya is doing? Also if he Children had (have) the magic to create the White Walkers wouldn't their magic continue to protect them, especially with dragons back in the world which supposedly makes all magic stronger? I am still trying to work that whole thing out in my head!

Also, hold the door!!! Hodor!! While I love knowing (at least I guess we know) the meaning of Hodor. I cried real tears for Hodor. I haven't done that since Stephen King killed off Eddie in the Dark Tower!!!

 

[Koopa]

Or the very fact that Shireen is still at the wall whilst Jon needs some ressurection ties in with the shireen for jon trade. If Mother Shireen, lets herself gets talked into it through her devotion by mel... . I don't actually see that happening in the books but i can see why people theorize about it.

 

[svalbard]

From what I was reading online the show's producers have confirmed that Shireen's death was giving to them by Martin.

 

[The Imp]

Koopa, you bring up one I had not yet considered, the death or Doran. I agree it really felt like a TV thing. I just don't believe Hotah would be snuck up on and killed in such a fashion. We know he doesn't trust anyone, least of all the Sand Snakes. Not that he can't be killed obviously but I'm not feeling it.

Oh Vizion! We shall see my friend!! Jon was stabbed multiple times, I'll give you a maybe they don't kill him, but he would be out of the action for a very long time, time he does not have.

I do agree however that the TV Ramsey seems much smarter than the book Ramsey. Book Ramsey has a certain low cunning but smarts? No.

svalbard I don't know about Shireen. Have to say I'm doubting it. While Stannis may be willing to let it happen, we have to remember that in the book Shireen is at the wall. No way the watch allows Mel to burn a little girl alive!!

Imp, I have to admit to being more than a little confused about Bran. I was sure he would become a tree!! Was his time there a training period similar to what Arya is doing? Also if he Children had (have) the magic to create the White Walkers wouldn't their magic continue to protect them, especially with dragons back in the world which supposedly makes all magic stronger? I am still trying to work that whole thing out in my head!

Also, hold the door!!! Hodor!! While I love knowing (at least I guess we know) the meaning of Hodor. I cried real tears for Hodor. I haven't done that since Stephen King killed off Eddie in the Dark Tower!!!

Bran leaving the cave was unexpected for me as well.

I think the CotF created the proverbial monster that they couldn't control. BTW, I don't have my books avaiable, but if memory serves me correctly, didn't Bran have a vision (in Dance)of a man being sacrificed?

 

[Koopa]

Yeah, but that was a blood sacrifice I think, pretty sure the man in question died. Or at least that's what grrm may want us to believe.

 

[Needle]

Bran leaving the cave was unexpected for me as well.

I think the CotF created the proverbial monster that they couldn't control. BTW, I don't have my books avaiable, but if memory serves me correctly, didn't Bran have a vision (in Dance)of a man being sacrificed?

Yeah, but that was a blood sacrifice I think, pretty sure the man in question died. Or at least that's what grrm may want us to believe.

I am not sure on the sacrifice vision, will have to look into it. However given how they (HBO) left it something incredible still has to happen. Summer and Hodor have both died. Just how long can Meera dragging Bran not only stay ahead of the WW but manage to stay alive beyond the wall? Not very is my guess, so what now?

 

[Koopa]

Meera will be about to abandon Bran, when they get miraculously saved by Coldhands.

 

[Keldaris]

Meera will be about to abandon Bran, when they get miraculously saved by Coldhands.

I think it's more likely they'll be saved by Benjen Stark

 

[Koopa]

Same thing really in the show probably (though not in the books)

 

[Keebs411]

Bran leaving the cave was unexpected for me as well.

I think the CotF created the proverbial monster that they couldn't control. BTW, I don't have my books avaiable, but if memory serves me correctly, didn't Bran have a vision (in Dance)of a man being sacrificed?

If memory serves, I believe his vision was of a woman with white hair, and she was doing what looked like a blood sacrifice using a bronze sickle? I remember in discussions here the material the tool was made of was noted to try and gage the time period it may have happened. Debating if it was during first man before the andels or after the andels.

 

[Needle]

If memory serves, I believe his vision was of a woman with white hair, and she was doing what looked like a blood sacrifice using a bronze sickle? I remember in discussions here the material the tool was made of was noted to try and gage the time period it may have happened. Debating if it was during first man before the andels or after the andels.

I believe your correct on the vision Keebs. I remember the bronze blade being used to try to find a time frame.

 

[Needle]

Okay so after last night do we have an answer to a long debated question? Benjen Stark is coldhands? I have always felt it was him but the series tells us he is another dead not dead? Saved from death by the Children in the same way they initially made the Nights King. Thoughts?

 

[The Imp]

Didn't GRRM say that they are not the same?

 

[Needle]

Didn't GRRM say that they are not the same?

I honestly don't know Imp, did he say that? I do know I read that Coldhands (along with Stoneheart) would not be a part of the series, so leads me to believe they are not the same. I guess I will (for now anyway) chose to believe that Benjen is still alive.

On another note: Dany once said (about Viserys) that he was not truly a dragon because fire cannot kill a dragon. Despite this I always felt Dany's first fire survival was due to the magic of the dragons themselves, they needed a mother after all. Now she has done it again! So I guess she truly is fireproof, except maybe from actual dragonfire. Also loved seeing Drogon in his full glory!!! Now where are the other two?

Also will Dany ride the other dragons? Or will they remain unridden until their riders are unveiled?

 

[Judderman]

There was quite a lot of posts about who the other Dragonriders would be. From what Dany said it seems she may be the only dragon rider.